The Warner Bros. Thread | Will NOT merge with Paramount...capitalism is still terrible

[TerwillikerInst]

23 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

It’s actually shocking that they managed to bungle it THIS badly. It’s time for a HARD reboot. The Snyderverse was a fad that’s not even useful for nostalgia anymore. 

Yes, thank you for saying it. 

 

I think it's legitimately insane that ever since BvS DC has still never managed to fully get over just cutting their ties to the old Snyderverse and its baggage. 

 

You can like what Snyder did, you can dislike it, but it's impossible to deny the more removed from the main franchise story a DCEU movie was (even if it had a very heavily Snyder-inspired look and tone like WW) the better it did. 

 

People just weren't that into the overarching DCEU franchise choices and narrative, which was a huge problem for something that wanted to emulate Marvel. 

 

Multiple (!) WB regimes have lost hundreds of millions trying to magically find a way to keep all the old Snyder continuity stuff but shove it into an entirely new context and they still haven't made it work. 

 

If I were Gunn's advisor, I'd order him to start from scratch. No Peacemaker Season 2, no Waller spinoff. Bring back actors you like if you want to but as different characters. Don't keep making the same mistakes. 

 

Edited June 19, 2023 by TerwillikerInst

[JWR]

I'd be inclined to agree.

 

Everything from the last era has to go for audiences to start getting excited for the brand again. 

[FunkMiller]

3 hours ago, TerwillikerInst said:

Yes, thank you for saying it. 

 

I think it's legitimately insane that ever since BvS DC has still never managed to fully get over just cutting their ties to the old Snyderverse and its baggage. 

 

You can like what Snyder did, you can dislike it, but it's impossible to deny the more removed from the main franchise story a DCEU movie was (even if it had a very heavily Snyder-inspired look and tone like WW) the better it did. 

 

People just weren't that into the overarching DCEU franchise choices and narrative, which was a huge problem for something that wanted to emulate Marvel. 

 

Multiple (!) WB regimes have lost hundreds of millions trying to magically find a way to keep all the old Snyder continuity stuff but shove it into an entirely new context and they still haven't made it work. 

 

If I were Gunn's advisor, I'd order him to start from scratch. No Peacemaker Season 2, no Waller spinoff. Bring back actors you like if you want to but as different characters. Don't keep making the same mistakes. 

 

 

The problem is they had nothing to replace it with, and they'd gone so hard on the Snyderverse before the first movie (Man Of Steel was not meant to kickstart a cinematic universe) was even out that course correcting became almost impossible. 

 

BvS was hated by such a large cross section of the audience that the DCEU never had a chance to recover from it. But because WB had - in their hubris - already green lit Justice League and started making it, they were stuck on a course they couldn't get out of.

 

Then the sunk cost fallacy takes over. It didn't help that Wonder Woman & Aquaman did so well. It made them think the DCEU was worth saving. It wasn't. Those movies weren't successful because they were DCEU. They were successful despite of it. The snyderbros on social media also didn't help, because it made WB think the DCEU was far more popular than it ever was.

 

Starting from scratch is of course the right thing to do, but Gunn wants to keep the stuff he did with the DCEU - and that'll guarantee ongoing audience confusion and apathy.

[WittyUsername]

8 hours ago, dudalb said:

Deadpool is about the only Comic Book Franchise that suceeded with a R rating.

Do Logan and Joker not count?

[ZattMurdock]

30 minutes ago, FunkMiller said:

 

The problem is they had nothing to replace it with, and they'd gone so hard on the Snyderverse before the first movie (Man Of Steel was not meant to kickstart a cinematic universe) was even out that course correcting became almost impossible. 

 

BvS was hated by such a large cross section of the audience that the DCEU never had a chance to recover from it. But because WB had - in their hubris - already green lit Justice League and started making it, they were stuck on a course they couldn't get out of.

 

Then the sunk cost fallacy takes over. It didn't help that Wonder Woman & Aquaman did so well. It made them think the DCEU was worth saving. It wasn't. Those movies weren't successful because they were DCEU. They were successful despite of it. The snyderbros on social media also didn't help, because it made WB think the DCEU was far more popular than it ever was.

 

Starting from scratch is of course the right thing to do, but Gunn wants to keep the stuff he did with the DCEU - and that'll guarantee ongoing audience confusion and apathy.

Agree with everything except the bold. Peacemaker was a legit streaming hit and Waller played by Viola Davis is well liked across the board in my opinion. I feel like that audiences will get it, just like they did with JK Simmons playing Jameson both on the Raimi’s and the MCU’s Spider-Man films.

 

Also since you are clearly a DC fan that didn’t enjoy the DCEU output like myself, I’d highly recommend giving an watch to Rosenbaum’s James Gunn interview:

 

 

Gunn gets a lot candid and frank about his DCU plans and how he doesn’t want to spread himself neither the DCU too thin, not overextending it for the sake of it. Another interesting point that I think it’s important and it will help avoiding what you are afraid of: he straights up says that there are no plans for a new Suicide Squad film. So you can get let’s say Amanda Waller played by Viola Davis showing up in Superman Legacy but just like @dudalbmentioned a parallel days ago, it’s going to be like Judy Dench’s M on 007 films, or J JJameson in the MCU like I’ve mentioned. If they use Waller, Peacemaker and the Squad as characters that enrich the DCU, then I can see it not being confusing to the audiences and actually an asset. It’s undeniable how talented Viola Davis is and Cena got a breakout success with Peacemaker.
 

The DCU that Gunn is envisioning clearly is an world where Superman isn’t "the first superhero", since we are getting a seasoned Batman that discovers that he has a kid in Brave and the Bold, and I could even see it Blue Beetle working in this universe because it’s so detached of what we see as the DCEU, meaning the Snyder’s Justice League mainstays. I’d even dare to say that if Momoa is up for taking the role of Lobo, there is precedent of the same actor playing two radically different characters in superhero films and succeeding without confusing the audiences. Besides, if Momoa is passionate about Lobo, I could definitely see it happening. Hell, there is opportunity for even sort of a new ragtag team of misfits / space opera with L.E.G.I.O.N., a team that Lobo used to be part of.

[WittyUsername]

9 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

Agree with everything except the bold. Peacemaker was a legit streaming hit and Waller played by Viola Davis is well liked across the board in my opinion. I feel like that audiences will get it, just like they did with JK Simmons playing Jameson both on the Raimi’s and the MCU’s Spider-Man films.

 

Also since you are clearly a DC fan that didn’t enjoy the DCEU output like myself, I’d highly recommend giving an watch to Rosenbaum’s James Gunn interview:

 

 

Gunn gets a lot candid and frank about his DCU plans and how he doesn’t want to spread himself neither the DCU too thin, not overextending it for the sake of it. Another interesting point that I think it’s important and it will help avoiding what you are afraid of: he straights up says that there are no plans for a new Suicide Squad film. So you can get let’s say Amanda Waller played by Viola Davis showing up in Superman Legacy but just like @dudalbmentioned a parallel days ago, it’s going to be like Judy Dench’s M on 007 films, or J JJameson in the MCU like I’ve mentioned. If they use Waller, Peacemaker and the Squad as characters that enrich the DCU, then I can see it not being confusing to the audiences and actually an asset. It’s undeniable how talented Viola Davis is and Cena got a breakout success with Peacemaker.
 

The DCU that Gunn is envisioning clearly is an world where Superman isn’t "the first superhero", since we are getting a seasoned Batman that discovers that he has a kid in Brave and the Bold, and I could even see it Blue Beetle working in this universe because it’s so detached of what we see as the DCEU, meaning the Snyder’s Justice League mainstays. I’d even dare to say that if Momoa is up for taking the role of Lobo, there is precedent of the same actor playing two radically different characters in superhero films and succeeding without confusing the audiences. Besides, if Momoa is passionate about Lobo, I could definitely see it happening. Hell, there is opportunity for even sort of a new ragtag team of misfits / space opera with L.E.G.I.O.N., a team that Lobo used to be part of.

Peacemaker didn’t seem to leave that much of an impression from what I can tell. Its finale was viewed by less than 600k households over a span of four days. It was no Euphoria or House of the Dragon, that’s for sure. 
 

I would have to agree with the sentiment that Gunn hasn’t really proven himself to be a big crowd pleasing director outside of the MCU. Of course, the GotG movies are currently his only films to be PG-13, which his Superman film will also obviously be. Gunn’s style seems to resonate best when there’s a limit to what he can get away with.

[excel1]

Chris Evans going from a supporting role in Fantastic Four movies, which NOBODY LIKED and even less people actually saw, to the lead role in CA after 4 years is not the same as Momoa going from 2 very high-profile films where he is the star. 

 

It would be very weird for Momoa to become Lobo

Edited June 19, 2023 by excel1

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, excel1 said:

Chris Evans going from a supporting role in Fantastic Four movies, which NOBODY LIKED and even less people actually, to the lead role in CA after 4 years is not the same as Momoa going from 2 very high-profile films where he is the star. 

 

It would be very weird for Momoa to become Lobo

I honestly don’t think so. Also I could not see anyone playing Lobo other than Momoa. It’s like he was born for the role. Different than Aquaman, which he was great, but not what I call irreplaceable.

[ZattMurdock]

3 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Peacemaker didn’t seem to leave that much of an impression from what I can tell. Its finale was viewed by less than 600k households over a span of four days. It was no Euphoria or House of the Dragon, that’s for sure. 
 

I would have to agree with the sentiment that Gunn hasn’t really proven himself to be a big crowd pleasing director outside of the MCU. Of course, the GotG movies are currently his only films to be PG-13, which his Superman film will also obviously be. Gunn’s style seems to resonate best when there’s a limit to what he can get away with.

I’m not sure why we would have a reason to doubt what Gunn has been saying since as long as he made the first Guardians film, which is that he had absolute freedom across all three projects. The one thing that he was mandated to do was in the first one, which was to explain the infinity stones and that resulted in the plot of the Deus ex machina of one of the biggest films of all time.

 

 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

6 minutes ago, excel1 said:

Chris Evans going from a supporting role in Fantastic Four movies, which NOBODY LIKED and even less people actually saw, to the lead role in CA after 4 years is not the same as Momoa going from 2 very high-profile films where he is the star. 

 

It would be very weird for Momoa to become Lobo

I don’t know if anyone even cares about Lobo, but Momoa is hot so I wouldn’t mind seeing more of him. 👀

[ZattMurdock]

17 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

I don’t know if anyone even cares about Lobo, but Momoa is hot so I wouldn’t mind seeing more of him. 👀

When asked what was his favorite DC film, Gunn has always said that’s Superman ‘78. But when asked what was his favorite Marvel film, he always says that’s Into the Spider-Verse and Deadpool. Yes Lobo isn’t popular these days but back in the day, he was incredibly popular, doing a lot of the schtick of breaking the fourth-wall that Deadpool became insanely famous for, but She-Hulk did it first in the comics. 
 

Done right, a rated-R Lobo film could become incredibly popular, in my opinion. He is an alien bounty hunter that is capable of going toe to toe with Superman, so I wouldn’t even discard the possibility of him being Superman’s nemesis on Superman Legacy, or one of them. It’s an incredibly underrated DC character that the comics side of things don’t seem to know what to do with him lately, which is a shame. Some crazy politically incorrect shit happened on his graphic novels, but it was incredibly funny.

[Napoleon]

1 hour ago, FunkMiller said:

It didn't help that Wonder Woman & Aquaman did so well. It made them think the DCEU was worth saving. It wasn't. Those movies weren't successful because they were DCEU. They were successful despite of it.

I think the situation is much more complicated. WB did try to make more movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Shazam, Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad were well received by critics, but failed to bring in large audiences like WW and Aquaman. Other sequels also made by the same people, with the same intentions, not only failed with audiences but also with critics (Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam 2).

[ZattMurdock]

6 minutes ago, Napoleon said:

I think the situation is much more complicated. WB did try to make more movies like Wonder Woman and Aquaman. Shazam, Birds of Prey and The Suicide Squad were well received by critics, but failed to bring in large audiences like WW and Aquaman. Other sequels also made by the same people, with the same intentions, not only failed with audiences but also with critics (Wonder Woman 1984, Shazam 2).

I actually agree with this. Also COVID, day and date releases and the delays that had to happen because of the pandemic and other situations didn’t help either. 

[WittyUsername]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

I’m not sure why we would have a reason to doubt what Gunn has been saying since as long as he made the first Guardians film, which is that he had absolute freedom across all three projects. The one thing that he was mandated to do was in the first one, which was to explain the infinity stones and that resulted in the plot of the Deus ex machina of one of the biggest films of all time.

 

 

I’m sure Gunn had plenty of creative freedom relative to the MCU, but he still had to work within the parameters of PG-13 superhero movies that parents were expected to take their children to see. TSS and Peacemaker were him being allowed to completely indulge in his edgy preferences, and they weren’t nearly as popular as his work on GotG. 

[ZattMurdock]

4 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

I’m sure Gunn had plenty of creative freedom relative to the MCU, but he still had to work within the parameters of PG-13 superhero movies that parents were expected to take their children to see. TSS and Peacemaker were him being allowed to completely indulge in his edgy preferences, and they weren’t nearly as popular as his work on GotG. 

Got it, yeah I kinda agree, despite my reading being that both Peacemaker and The Suicide Squad are popular, at least among the usual superhero movie going crowd. Purely anecdotal, but I never was able to convince a friend of mine that actually loves Peacemaker to watch TSS. His reasoning is he hated Suicide Squad (2016) and doubt it could be that much better, despite my praise for the film.

 

With that said, I’m fairly confident that Gunn understands what would be better suited for PG-13 and what wouldn’t. I actually don’t think we ever needed a rated-r The Suicide Squad, but I’m glad we got it. I do think one intriguing project that could come under Gunn’s tenure as DC Studios head is the rumored Lobo. Low budget, go for their own spin of what would be DC’s answer to Deadpool. It could work. Just like Reynolds was a decent Hal Jordan but a perfect Deadpool, I could see it with Momoa taking over as Lobo.

[ChipDerby]

Just putting this here for myself

 

1. Wonder Woman 1984

2. The Suicide Squad

3. Wonder Woman

4. Aquaman

5. Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

6. Man of Steel

7. The Flash

8. Shazam!

9. Shazam! Fury of the Gods

10. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition)

11. Zack Snyder's Justice League

12. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

13. Justice League

14. Black Adam

15. Suicide Squad

[robertman2]

12 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

Just putting this here for myself

 

1. Wonder Woman 1984

2. The Suicide Squad

3. Wonder Woman

4. Aquaman

5. Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

6. Man of Steel

7. The Flash

8. Shazam!

9. Shazam! Fury of the Gods

10. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition)

11. Zack Snyder's Justice League

12. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

13. Justice League

14. Black Adam

15. Suicide Squad

WW1984 that high up is fucking bold

[ChipDerby]

54 minutes ago, RobrtmanAStarWarsReference said:

WW1984 that high up is fucking bold

 

I'm a bold guy  

[ZattMurdock]

1 hour ago, ChipDerby said:

Just putting this here for myself

 

1. Wonder Woman 1984

2. The Suicide Squad

3. Wonder Woman

4. Aquaman

5. Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

6. Man of Steel

7. The Flash

8. Shazam!

9. Shazam! Fury of the Gods

10. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (Ultimate Edition)

11. Zack Snyder's Justice League

12. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice

13. Justice League

14. Black Adam

15. Suicide Squad

My DCEU ranking:

 

1. The Suicide Squad

2. Peacemaker

3. Wonder Woman

4. Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

5. Aquaman

6. Shazam!

7. WW84

8. Zack Snyder’s Justice League

9. Black Adam

10. Man of Steel

11. Suicide Squad

12. Batman v Superman (Either edition)

 

Haven’t seen either Fury of the Gods or The Flash yet. BvS is quite likely my most hated film of all time, Man of Steel and Suicide Squad I genuinely disliked and I only throughly enjoyed my top 5 of this list.

Edited June 19, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[JWR]

45 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

My DCEU ranking:

 

1. The Suicide Squad

2. Peacemaker

3. Wonder Woman

4. Birds of Prey and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn

5. Aquaman

6. Shazam!

7. WW84

8. Zack Snyder’s Justice League

9. Black Adam

10. Man of Steel

11. Suicide Squad

12. Batman v Superman (Either edition)

 

Haven’t seen either Fury of the Gods or The Flash yet. BvS is quite likely my most hated film of all time, Man of Steel and Suicide Squad I genuinely disliked and I only throughly enjoyed my top 5 of this list.

 

This is more or less my ranking as well.