Ghost in the Shell | March 31, 2017 | Scarlett Johansson | Paramount | New Trailer on page 43!!!

[Mulder]

Just now, Macleod said:

 

What is "more authentic"?  I see no lack of "authenticity" in the casting/look of the lead character of this film vs. the anime/manga.   Perhaps they should have set it in a future New York, though, as someone else mentioned.  ...But was this even specified as Tokyo in the film?  I don't think so -- I think it was a non-descript futuristic city with a multi-ethnic population (as evidenced by her crew). 

 

 

They should have made this fifteen years ago, though, when emergence of similar movies was in its height.  It feels redundant. 

 

 

I find it interesting that people take so much issue with GITS and relatively little was made about Cruise and Edge of Tomorrow (as far as I can recall).  Are we dealing with more gender bias here, rather than racial bias?  It also helped that EOT turned out to be an excellent film. 

 

Of all the film's problems, this issue of so-called "whitwashing" is miniscule in meaning, as far as I'm concerned.  The main issue is that the film simply doesn't do anything we haven't seen before...and it mutes most of the original tale's meaningfulness in script and on-screen. 

 

Plus, Takeshi looks like (and is ultimately treated like) he stepped in from one of his gangster movies, rather than belonging this one.

 

Edge of Tomorrow's characters were always white even in the original Light Novel.

[robertman2]

2 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Okay and? That's kinda what makes it obscure: that the average person doesn't know about it.

 

I'd say the average person is familiar with Pokemon, Dragonball Z, maybe Naruto. I could maybe see an argument for One Piece.

 

But just because there's very few anime that's not obscure doesn't mean that GITS isn't obscure just because it's well known in the anime circles.

You could throw on Sailor Moon and Attack on Titan to that list

[Macleod]

2 minutes ago, Mulder said:

Edge of Tomorrow's characters were always white even in the original Light Novel.

 

And so are Ghost in the Shell's, in look and aesthetic...at least in the anime interpretation...even if they have Japanese names.

[Dementeleus]

The cultural appropriation issue might be bigger than whitewashing here. Certainly they're intertwined.  

[KevinPr]

7 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Okay and? That's kinda what makes it obscure: that the average person doesn't know about it.

 

I'd say the average person is familiar with Pokemon, Dragonball Z, maybe Naruto. I could maybe see an argument for One Piece.

 

But just because there's very few anime that's not obscure doesn't mean that GITS isn't obscure just because it's well known in the anime circles.

 

Detective Conan, Sailor Moon, Hunter x Hunter, Gundam. I only know about that.

[Water Bottle]

10 minutes ago, Fate of the Robertman2 said:

You could throw on Sailor Moon and Attack on Titan to that list

 

Sailor Moon? Yes. Attack on Titan? No.

 

4 minutes ago, KevinPr said:

 

Detective Conan, Sailor Moon, Hunter x Hunter, Gundam. I only know about that.

 

Maybe Gundam isn't obscure as well but probably forgotten.

[Mulder]

9 minutes ago, Macleod said:

 

And so are Ghost in the Shell's, in look and aesthetic...at least in the anime interpretation...even if they have Japanese names.

Not in look or aesthetic. This is where people mess up just the way Japan draws and animates their characters and what they intend their characters nationalities to be. The most clear sign usually is the names of the characters.

[Barnack]

5 minutes ago, Macleod said:

I find it interesting that people take so much issue with GITS and relatively little was made about Cruise and Edge of Tomorrow (as far as I can recall).  Are we dealing with more gender bias here, rather than racial bias?  It also helped that EOT turned out to be an excellent film. 

 

It is interesting specially that it was if I remember correctly it was 0 controversy at all for Edge in the mainstream US, the contrast is good, I think there is many factor for that difference.

 

1) The difference level of franchise awareness, there is a reason that Ghost in the Shell did keep the franchise name and a lot of is element, even thought it is not that well known it is still a well known name, it is part of the general culture of the age demography that buy the most movie ticket by capita, even if you have not seen any of the movie you have usually heard of the name. Edge of tomorrow you need to start you article explaining about All you need is kill, not as easy getting traffic your way and look like a more forced one.

 

2) The reshaping of the story in Europe did help I think, you really need to make research to know about it, having the story set in Tokyo, character name,

Spoiler

Japanese mother and being a Japanese person in flashback, etc...

make it much more obvious, argument can be made purely on a aesthetic/artistic/disbelief side without involving any politics.

 

 

3) 2014 vs 2017, with some list of failed commercial movie that were accused of whitewashing since the greenlight of Edge of Tomorrow, maybe the obvious commercial obligation is less obvious, giving better traction to those story.

 

4) Maybe yes some gender and age bias, I would imagine that publishing story (at the same level of controversy) on Internet involving young beautiful actress is a better source of revenues than older actor.

[Mulder]

Just now, Barnack said:

 

It is interesting specially that it was if I remember correctly it was 0 controversy at all for Edge in the mainstream US, the contrast is good, I think there is many factor for that difference.

 

1) The difference level of franchise awareness, there is a reason that Ghost in the Shell did keep the franchise name and a lot of is element, even thought it is not that well known it is still a well known name, it is part of the general culture of the age demography that buy the most movie ticket by capita, even if you have not seen any of the movie you have usually heard of the name. Edge of tomorrow you need to start you article explaining about All you need is kill, not as easy getting traffic your way and look like a more forced one.

 

2) The reshaping of the story in Europe did help I think, you really need to make research to know about it, having the story set in Tokyo, character name,

  Reveal hidden contents

Japanese mother and being a Japanese person in flashback, etc...

make it much more obvious, argument can be made purely on a aesthetic/artistic/disbelief side without involving any politics.

 

 

3) 2014 vs 2017, with some list of failed commercial movie that were accused of whitewashing since the greenlight of Edge of Tomorrow, maybe the obvious commercial obligation is less obvious, giving better traction to those story.

 

4) Maybe yes some gender and age bias, I would imagine that publishing story (at the same level of controversy) on Internet involving young beautiful actress is a better source of revenues than older actor.

Edge of Tomorrow was always multi-national. The main character was Japanese ((My mistake earlier, looked it up just now)) but that was helped by the move to Europe.

[Mojoguy]

Anime turned into live action movies are cursed, look at Dragonball one of the biggest anime brands around, just like video game turned into movies are cursed.

[KevinPr]

2 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

Anime turned into live action movies are cursed, look at Dragonball one of the biggest anime brands around, just like video game turned into movies are cursed.

 

Rurouni Kenshin is the only one decent live-action movie based on anime.

 

And yeah! Even Japan struggles to adapt its own anime into live-action movies.

[Mulder]

Just now, KevinPr said:

 

Rurouni Kenshin is the only one decent live-action movie based on anime.

 

And yeah! Even Japan struggles to adapt its own anime into live-action movies.

Most Japanese anime movies are awful for part of the reason GiTS is. GiTS just has an added problem of cultural appropriation and whitewashing to it.

[Mojoguy]

Attack on Titan live action movie was laughably bad, that's what happened when you don't have the money for good effects and hire models to play the characters. That's a Japan move industry problem in general.

[KevinPr]

7 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

Attack on Titan live action movie was laughably bad, that's what happened when you don't have the money for good effects and hire models to play the characters. That's a Japan move industry problem in general.

 

Don't forget Japan will release the live-action movie of Fullmetal Alchemist in December 2017. Here's the trailer:

 

 

 

[Jason]

1 hour ago, Macleod said:

What is "more authentic"?  I see no lack of "authenticity" in the casting/look of the lead character of this film vs. the anime/manga.   Perhaps they should have set it in a future New York, though, as someone else mentioned.  ...But was this even specified as Tokyo in the film?  I don't think so -- I think it was a non-descript futuristic city with a multi-ethnic population (as evidenced by her crew). 

 

 

Did you read the linked article? I meant culturally authentic, not authenticity to the anime/manga. Non-descript futuristic city seems like another cop-out, it still seems more like a futuristic Japan or other Asian country than anywhere else. But in any case, the key point is that there are supposedly Japanese characters acting in very non-Japanese ways. (read the linked article)

 

I think everyone knows on some level that ScarJo was cast because the filmmakers were too risk-averse to cast an Asian actress. Which is fine, the real problem isn't this one specific film but the pattern in general, where minority actors and actresses aren't even given the opportunity to fail, and therefore can't become big names either.

 

Every other explanation for casting ScarJo is just excuse-making. I don't buy the "authenticity to the original" argument, because there are plenty of far more important elements that they changed or left out than the "race" of a robot. (Again, I don't really care about that per se.) Ultimately, if they weren't able to have Japanese characters (regardless of the background of their actors) act according to Japanese cultural norms that they should have clearly set the film in a futuristic America. But that would have required the filmmakers to know what they didn't know, and I don't think they did.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Jason

[robertman2]

I can't wait to see how Japan fucks up the Jojo movie

[ban1o]

To be clear I don't care about Death Notes as much since that is a clear American remake. But I think having a token Asian in that is messy. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by ban1o

[Mulder]

While I can relate to the innate issue some people have with Death Note not giving an asian-american actor a chance to make it big, I do feel like that controversy is getting a bit overexagerrated. 

[drdungbeetle]

At the risk of sounding like a huge jerk, maybe it was good that Rinko Kikuchi wasn't the lead in this film. It had many problems in addition to the lead's ethnicity and that great Paramount marketing to pound it home. Do people seriously want the first big break for a Japanese female lead to get "Catwomaned"?

[drdungbeetle]

50 minutes ago, Fate of the Robertman2 said:

I can't wait to see how Japan fucks up the Jojo movie

Considering how bad Attack on Titan live action was, I think it's safe to say Japan tanks its own animes in live action adaptations quite frequently. Shin Godzilla was an absolute best case scenario and miracle for 2010s JP genre film.