The Disney Thread | Happy 90th to Donald Duck!

[Reddroast]

1 minute ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Is TB12 the MCU? 😄

You can make the case for that. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

1 hour ago, ZattMurdock said:

[I don't care memes].

Seems a little self-refuting? 

 

 

Thought my comment was fairly short and relevant. Cool if you don't.

Edited July 16, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[LegionWrex]

The entire Snow White "controversy" feels so forced and stupid in the same way TLM one was. Who actually gives a shit? These are movies made for kids based on animated films also made for kids.

 

If anything Snow White doing something different with the story makes it more interesting considering we've had like 3 different Snow White films in the 2010s alone.

[WittyUsername]

I had a feeling back in 2019 that this emphasis on streaming was going to eventually backfire on Disney. People always gave Bob Iger too much credit. 

[excel1]

1 hour ago, WittyUsername said:

I had a feeling back in 2019 that this emphasis on streaming was going to eventually backfire on Disney. People always gave Bob Iger too much credit. 

 

How can one possibly say this is a fair take in light of Covid? Streaming was planned to be supplemental and would have gone quite differently had Covid not crushed theatrical and turned streaming into a very convenient crutch. 

 

Not fair or reasonable to evaluate 2019 plans effectiveness 2020-2022. The exterior circumstances far too signifiant. Disney+ certainly wasn't some "known suicide" plan ala WB's same day release "plan" of 2021. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by excel1

[excel1]

4 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Iger is not Bill Belichik. He's more Jeff Fischer. 

 

Sure he'd be very pursued by other media companies. He'll give you short term strength at the cost of long term health. Like most business executives. 

 

LOL how can one even pretend to compare Fisher resume in NFL (1 lost super bowl) to Iger's in media?

 

4 hours ago, Reddroast said:

I mean look at Belichick with and without TB12. It's a fair comparison imo

 

3 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Is TB12 the MCU? 😄

 

Tom Brady as we know him does not exist without Bill Belichick drafting him, betting his entire coaching career on Brady's ability over Drew Bledsoe, and the surrounding him with premiere defensive talent / solid offensive support while Brady's level of play ascended 2001-2006. The defense was also the strength on 3 of their 6 Super Bowl teams (01, 03, 18) and equal in 2004. Brady wasn't even a clear cut top 5 QB until Randy Moss arrived. And frankly, I could have thrown touchdowns to Randy Moss.

 

Belichick's decisions on who to play, who to draft, and how to prepare for games won them 6 Super Bowls. Is what it is. NOBODY else in Earth, not even Tom Brady's parents, are starting him over Drew Bledsoe in mid 2001 if they're the NE head coach. BB spotted the biggest diamond ever in the roughest of roughs. 

Edited July 16, 2023 by excel1

[WittyUsername]

20 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

How can one possibly say this is a fair take in light of Covid? Streaming was planned to be supplemental and would have gone quite differently had Covid not crushed theatrical and turned streaming into a very convenient crutch. 

 

Not fair or reasonable to evaluate 2019 plans effectiveness 2020-2022. The exterior circumstances far too signifiant. Disney+ certainly wasn't some "known suicide" plan ala WB's same day release "plan" of 2021. 

Streaming was always intended to be a major part of the company moving forward. That was why we got all those expensive Marvel shows on Disney+. Iger was trying to compete with Netflix, and it didn’t work out. It was a very shortsighted strategy on his part. 
 

People liked to praise Iger for how successful Disney was during his initial run, but they forget to mention that a key part of that success was all the acquisitions he did. It was great for short term profits, but not so much in long term. His strategy of releasing a new Star Wars film every year quickly fizzled out, and now even Marvel is not the unbeatable juggernaut it was five years ago. 

[Mr Terrific]

I despise both Coach and player in this analogy but the comparison is not exactly fair. If Brady stayed in NE and Belichick had left to take a middling team to a title… don’t know. 

[excel1]

30 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

Streaming was always intended to be a major part of the company moving forward. That was why we got all those expensive Marvel shows on Disney+. Iger was trying to compete with Netflix, and it didn’t work out. It was a very shortsighted strategy on his part. 
 

 

Covid caused the over investment into content for D+ Covid crushed their assembly of $1b global grossers. D+, as initially planned, would have been a major but supplemental piece to their business. Nobody is saying it would have been a grand slam, but it would be working out much better had outside circumstance gone as everyone else thought they would. 

 

30 minutes ago, WittyUsername said:

People liked to praise Iger for how successful Disney was during his initial run, but they forget to mention that a key part of that success was all the acquisitions he did. It was great for short term profits, but not so much in long term. 

 

I don't know what you mean by the bolded. The acquisitions were obviously smart business moves. It is what it is. It isn't the 1980s or 1990s any more for completely original creative is what makes up most tentpole. The entire entertainment planet shifted towards brands and Iger went bought the rights to known megabrands like Pixar, Star Wars, Avatar, and supposed megabrand Indiana Jones. He also brought the rights to untapped potential blockbusters with Marvel films and then oversaw it transform into the most successful entertainment franchise ever. All of that is smart business. Iger isn't responsible for the over-saturation of Marvel stuff. The biggest issue on his watch is easily the fumbling of Star Wars from ROGUE ONE onward, though I agree with those who feel that by basically remaking the original film with DA FORCE AWAKENS, they set a horrible precent for future expectations which ultimately crushed them. That, Iger botched. 

[WittyUsername]

16 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

Covid caused the over investment into content for D+ Covid crushed their assembly of $1b global grossers. D+, as initially planned, would have been a major but supplemental piece to their business. Nobody is saying it would have been a grand slam, but it would be working out much better had outside circumstance gone as everyone else thought they would. 

 

 

I don't know what you mean by the bolded. The acquisitions were obviously smart business moves. It is what it is. It isn't the 1980s or 1990s any more for completely original creative is what makes up most tentpole. The entire entertainment planet shifted towards brands and Iger went bought the rights to known megabrands like Pixar, Star Wars, Avatar, and supposed megabrand Indiana Jones. He also brought the rights to untapped potential blockbusters with Marvel films and then oversaw it transform into the most successful entertainment franchise ever. All of that is smart business. Iger isn't responsible for the over-saturation of Marvel stuff. The biggest issue on his watch is easily the fumbling of Star Wars from ROGUE ONE onward, though I agree with those who feel that by basically remaking the original film with DA FORCE AWAKENS, they set a horrible precent for future expectations which ultimately crushed them. That, Iger botched. 

Who is responsible then? It was Iger’s idea to pump out so many of these Disney+ shows, not Chapek’s. 

[Potiki]

12 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

Even handed as always, Potiki.

 

Late at night for me (don't ask why I'm up - long story), and I largely agree with your points, actually.  All I was really trying to say is if fandom at large is happy with the direction of the things they like, that covers up a lot of sins.

 

...

 

Or at the very least drags more defenders out of the woodwork.    To-mah-toe/TOE-may-to, really.

 

I guess I am just cynical enough to think that if online fandom is more or less happy with the direction of things then the CEO gets a bit of a break from some, deserved or not.

 

ETA:

 

Re-reading my post that kicked this little side discussion off, I suppose I should have said something like "The main reason people are carping" or "A main reason"

 

...

 

Then again, I also tend to think the phrase 'carping on Iger' by definition excludes thoughtful and balanced critiques such as yours. 😉 ❤️

Yeah no problem, was only mildly disagreeing with you anyway but I largely agree that most will be happy with Disney and by extension Iger if they are making things that they like but feel like the online complaints will continue to persist from those who are more informed. 

----------

As for the discussion happening above about streaming ruining Disney I very much disagree. Disney studios have not been the big money earner of the company since the parks became a big deal or if you want to limit it to film/tv then it is since they acquired ABC/ESPN in the mid 90s. 

 

Apologies in advance for the long ramble. 

 

The main concern for Disney is not streaming, theatrical or the parks it is the decline over the last decade or so of linear networks and broadcast (the decline has speed up in the last 5 or so years) which takes away both revenue and profits, a substantial amount of both, they had managed to keep it flat to small growth over the last few years until last year when the advertising market started to weaken. If they didn't move into streaming revenues would be way down right now and whilst losses are happening in streaming that was to be expected and what Disney forecast back in 2018/2019, before Disney+ launched, that a breakeven/small profit would not happen until 2024. 

 

Disney streaming will eventually be profitable* and likely decently so, although I disagree with some of the cost cutting that is going on (short term will help, long term will hinder in my opinion) as I feel they are the one company that could have challenged Netflix and been a big global player with very nice margins compared to good margins they will likely have in a few years. 

 

Theatrical costs have been up due to COVID, they should retract some (although the strikes may also add costs) but I think more important is the return of theatrical revenues and this year it will likely be a decent amount more than last year, already at the Domestic box office they will likely beat last years total of ~$2B full year as they are at $1.5B year to date, Worldwide was ~$4.9B full year and this year is at ~$3.7-3.8B year to date. So while far from 2018-2019 should still be fairly healthy going forward, I feel they can probably get back to 2015-2017 totals of about $6-7B or so worldwide each year.

 

Theme Parks are struggling a bit at this moment with inflation, cost concerns from the general public and less so with global raising temperatures but they should be fine long term. 

 

Traditional TV (broadcast and Pay TV) is the business that Disney is clearly the most bearish (negative) on. Iger talked about selling ABC and keeping ESPN but with a distribution partner. I think the one thing about pulling back on streaming and not trying to compete with Netflix, signalling they are comfortable being the number 2 or 3 player in streaming, has meant that sports are less important in my view so wouldn't be shocked if they changed their mind and used ESPN to boost a sale of television networks. Put this way there would be very little interest in ABC by itself but a combo of ESPN and ABC would likely garner a lot of interest even with the struggles that traditional television is currently going through. 

 

*I feel like the ramp in streaming is unprofitable talk is a studio tactic in negotiations with the writers and actors to keep residuals down, although if it is true that the guilds want to base payouts on Parrot Analytics and Revenue earned that is also a bit bonkers so hopefully there is a middle ground there somewhere, hopefully one that skews the benefits towards writers and actors. 

[Water Bottle]

2 hours ago, excel1 said:

 

LOL how can one even pretend to compare Fisher resume in NFL (1 lost super bowl) to Iger's in media?

 

 

 

Tom Brady as we know him does not exist without Bill Belichick drafting him, betting his entire coaching career on Brady's ability over Drew Bledsoe, and the surrounding him with premiere defensive talent / solid offensive support while Brady's level of play ascended 2001-2006. The defense was also the strength on 3 of their 6 Super Bowl teams (01, 03, 18) and equal in 2004. Brady wasn't even a clear cut top 5 QB until Randy Moss arrived. And frankly, I could have thrown touchdowns to Randy Moss.

 

Belichick's decisions on who to play, who to draft, and how to prepare for games won them 6 Super Bowls. Is what it is. NOBODY else in Earth, not even Tom Brady's parents, are starting him over Drew Bledsoe in mid 2001 if they're the NE head coach. BB spotted the biggest diamond ever in the roughest of roughs. 

 

Uh-huh.

 

Look I'm a big Pats fan. But Belichik's record without Tom Brady is a lot less stellar as head coach. You think BB's gonna win a superbowl with Mac Jones? Hahaha. I fucking wish.

 

No, really, I want another Superbowl win. I hate sucking. 😭

[excel1]

26 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

 

Uh-huh.

 

Look I'm a big Pats fan. But Belichik's record without Tom Brady is a lot less stellar as head coach. You think BB's gonna win a superbowl with Mac Jones? Hahaha. I fucking wish.

 

No, really, I want another Superbowl win. I hate sucking. 😭

 

Die-hard Pats fan here going back to the 1980s. I'm sorry but this is one of the absolute dumbest arguments in all of sports. I know so many love thinking like a worker bee that they're almost incapable of seeing the high level big picture like a CEO, but these people must learn to see the forrest for the trees. The impact of any one player, even the QB, in football is so divided. Football is such a team oriented game that even the QB cannot simply win a game outright ala LeBron taking over a basketball game. 

 

"BB's record without TB is terrible". What an utterly ridiculous argument. Why do people hold it against Bill Belichick that he 1) discovered, 2) opt to play, and 3) developed Tom Brady for 20 seasons? Bill Belichick gets to claim credit for the wins accumulated 2001-2019 too because he is the one who picked and developed Brady from complete obscurity to begin with. Brady wasn't playing defense of special teams. Tom's offense scored 10 total points in their first Super Bowl win, for gods sake. Plenty of other elite QB talents played in 2001-2020, but none of their teams were as consistently great in all 3 phases of the games due to draft issues, free agency issues, coaching issues, you name. Tom Brady was, obviously, not a top 5 QB 2001-2004. There were a number of better QBs than him in the NFL and this was common knowledge. He was borderline top 5 2005-2006 and consensus top 5 2007-onwards, coinciding with the arrival of insane scoring weapon and the NFL's premier game changing in Randy Moss follows quickly by GOAT tight end talent Gronk.

 

Slide Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck and a handful others onto the Pats 2001-2020 and they will win all 6 Super Bowls. Slide absolutely anyone else into that HC/GM role for the period and we 100% do not win 6 Super Bowls, end of discussion. 

 

"You think BB's gonna win a superbowl with Mac Jones?". Well no doubt Mac Jones could win a super bowl on that 2001 or 2003 Pats team. The others? A better question would be - are the Pats going to be able build as strong of a unit around him as the ones Brady had in 2004, 2014, 2016, or 2018.

 

Tying this to Disney - this is equivalent of saying "Iger didn't actually direct or star in the Marvel films, so he doesn't get any credit for their existence. Iger's record outside of Marvel, Lucas, Pixar, and 20th Century Fox is not good, so therefore he must be bad". Yeah, except it was Iger's fucking idea to go and get those companies, and they generated insane amounts of money through all of their revenue streams. He was the top facilitator, he gets the credit. End of story. 

 

Dumb is dumb. 

Edited July 17, 2023 by excel1

[Water Bottle]

13 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

Die-hard Pats fan here going back to the 1980s. I'm sorry but this is one of the absolute dumbest arguments in all of sports. I know so many love thinking like a worker bee that they're almost incapable of seeing the high level big picture like a CEO, but these people must learn to see the forrest for the trees. The impact of any one player, even the QB, in football is so divided. Football is such a team oriented game that even the QB cannot simply win a game outright ala LeBron taking over a basketball game. 

 

"BB's record without TB is terrible". What an utterly ridiculous argument. Why do people hold it against Bill Belichick that he 1) discovered, 2) opt to play, and 3) developed Tom Brady for 20 seasons? Bill Belichick gets to claim credit for the wins accumulated 2001-2019 too because he is the one who picked and developed Brady from complete obscurity to begin with. Brady wasn't playing defense of special teams. Tom's offense scored 10 total points in their first Super Bowl win, for gods sake. Plenty of other elite QB talents played in 2001-2020, but none of their teams were as consistently great in all 3 phases of the games due to draft issues, free agency issues, coaching issues, you name. Tom Brady was, obviously, not a top 5 QB 2001-2004. There were a number of better QBs than him in the NFL and this was common knowledge. He was borderline top 5 2005-2006 and consensus top 5 2007-onwards, coinciding with the arrival of insane scoring weapon and the NFL's premier game changing in Randy Moss follows quickly by GOAT tight end talent Gronk.

 

Slide Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Andrew Luck and a handful others onto the Pats 2001-2020 and they will win all 6 Super Bowls. Slide absolutely anyone else into that HC/GM role for the period and we 100% do not win 6 Super Bowls, end of discussion. 

 

"You think BB's gonna win a superbowl with Mac Jones?". Well no doubt Mac Jones could win a super bowl on that 2001 or 2003 Pats team. The others? A better question would be - are the Pats going to be able build as strong of a unit around him as the ones Brady had in 2004, 2014, 2016, or 2018.

 

Tying this to Disney - this is equivalent of saying "Iger didn't actually direct or star in the Marvel films, so he doesn't get any credit for their existence. Iger's record outside of Marvel, Lucas, Pixar, and 20th Century Fox is not good, so therefore he must be bad". Yeah, except it was Iger's fucking idea to go and get those companies, and they generated insane amounts of money through all of their revenue streams. He was the top facilitator, he gets the credit. End of story. 

 

Dumb is dumb. 

 

Interesting. So let me get this straight. TB is only elite cause he had Randy Moss for a couple years and Gronk as his TE AND BB? 'Cause you know, TB didn't work hard to overcome his own limitations, learned the game better than anyone playing QB, and just didn't have the natural talent (he has a way better arm than Mac Jones). He got overlooked in the draft process but it was clear in 2001 that in training camp he was the better QB (but y'know, they were paying Bledsoe a lot).

 

TB went to Tampa Bay and won a superbowl. Meanwhile BB can't even get DeAndre Hopkins to sign now and can't drag WRs worth shit. Interesting you wanna praise BB but sorry in the last few years, BB has been pretty bad outside defense: and despite those elite defenses, we've been struggling since you know, an offense that can't consistently score or come back from behind ain't gonna win in today's NFL. Hiring Matt Patricia/Joe Judge to run the offense was always going to end in disaster just like Iger's Disney+ project he saddled on to Chapek.

 

Yeah, Iger bought Fox, Marvel, Lucas, Pixar. But he also has made critical mistakes including making Disney way too dependent on pre-existing IPs. 

[Cappoedameron]

 

 

Damn it Apple you're supposed to by WB not Disney!

[Potiki]

8 minutes ago, Cappoedameron said:

 

 

Damn it Apple you're supposed to by WB not Disney!

This has been a rumour on and off for 5+ years, I wouldn't read too much into it, could it happen? sure. Will it happen? I would say very unlikely. 

 

I also doubt Apple would want WBD, they wanted HBO at one point but there is too much junk to deal with for a WBD deal. Paramount is probably more likely if they want to get into the media space, although still feel some form of Universal-Paramount merger would be better synergy wise. 

[BK007]

4 hours ago, excel1 said:

 

Covid caused the over investment into content for D+ Covid crushed their assembly of $1b global grossers. D+, as initially planned, would have been a major but supplemental piece to their business. Nobody is saying it would have been a grand slam, but it would be working out much better had outside circumstance gone as everyone else thought they would. 

 

 

I don't know what you mean by the bolded. The acquisitions were obviously smart business moves. It is what it is. It isn't the 1980s or 1990s any more for completely original creative is what makes up most tentpole. The entire entertainment planet shifted towards brands and Iger went bought the rights to known megabrands like Pixar, Star Wars, Avatar, and supposed megabrand Indiana Jones. He also brought the rights to untapped potential blockbusters with Marvel films and then oversaw it transform into the most successful entertainment franchise ever. All of that is smart business. Iger isn't responsible for the over-saturation of Marvel stuff. The biggest issue on his watch is easily the fumbling of Star Wars from ROGUE ONE onward, though I agree with those who feel that by basically remaking the original film with DA FORCE AWAKENS, they set a horrible precent for future expectations which ultimately crushed them. That, Iger botched. 

 

 

It was smart for the time, but like anything else, you need to evolve with the times. 

 

Pumping out an unlimited amount of Star Wars and Marvel would backfire eventually even if it didn't seem like it for a long while. 

 

The disdain Disney showed for their back catalogue (and Fox's back catalogue) has also come back to bite them. 

 

This is why copyright should never have been extended to what amounts to indefinitely these days - because let's face it, if it's 90 years after the author's death, most of the time copyright will outlive the entire audience. Plus with so many works being owned by corporations and not individuals, it makes even less sense than it used to. The original intent was to incentivise creativity and the length of the term now does the opposite of that. 

[MovieMan89]

I mean, that Apple rumor may finally actually happen if Apple/Netflix/Amazon screw over the movie studios in this strike like they could.

 

As for Iger, it’s mostly all his mess. He started the ridiculous theme park pricing inflation, he started the lack of inflation to maintain decent wages for many of the workers, he started the acquisitions spree without thoughtful long-term strategies for all the new big IPs, he started the abandoning original IPs for more existing ones strategy leaving them screwed when they run out of popular existing ones, he started the streaming branch, etc etc etc. Only the latter one was maybe not all on him bc of covid. 

[BK007]

9 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I mean, that Apple rumor may finally actually happen if Apple/Netflix/Amazon screw over the movie studios in this strike like they could.

 

As for Iger, it’s mostly all his mess. He started the ridiculous theme park pricing inflation, he started the lack of inflation to maintain decent wages for many of the workers, he started the acquisitions spree without thoughtful long-term strategies for all the new big IPs, he started the abandoning original IPs for more existing ones strategy leaving them screwed when they run out of popular existing ones, he started the streaming branch, etc etc etc. Only the latter one was maybe not all on him bc of covid. 

And he'll leave with golden parachutes. He's just another parasite. 

[MovieMan89]

On the positive side, Iger at least can handle DeSantis craziness way better, so there’s that I guess.