BOF's Top 100 Animated Films of All Time Ceremony! TOP 10 COUNTDOWN TIME! (p.36)

[Ruthie]

I'm surprised Fritz the Cat is even mentioned.  Must be Tele's vote. 

Edited September 2, 2014 by Ruthie

[Spidey Freak]

I'm surprised Fritz the Cat is even mentioned.  Must be Tele's vote. 

 

I'm pretty sure Fritz is much after his time. Back in his childhood, they would just flip Tenniel illustrations really quick and call it animation.

[celticmoon]

I honestly feel like that monologue is the sole reason Ratatouille even contends with the likes of Nemo, TS3, Wall-E, Up, and Incredibles. Take that away and I bet it would fall more in line with Monsters Inc and ABL with a lot of people.

 

IMO, Ratatouille is better than all of those sans The Incredibles. It has tight storytelling and great characterization throughout. The monologue provides the perfect ending to a near-perfect film; it doesn't serve to elevate a lesser film.

Conversely, I think the prologue in Up is exactly what you claim the end monologue in Ratatouille is. I think the opening minutes of Up are pretty much perfect and 100% sincere. However, while I do think there is a truly special story in there post-prologue, it is stretched quite thin due to the crazy bird and talking dog antics, as well as an unnecessary villain that the story could have done quite well without. Honestly, I think it could have cut down on the excess and done much better as a 30-60 min film.

 

And I never had the impression that Monsters, Inc. is generally regarded as one of Pixar's lesser films. I think it is one of Pixar's most consistent films, with one of the biggest hearts.

 

Woah there, Monsters Inc is a classy film and not in ABL category.Personally, I think most Pixar films rely on certain moments/segments to carry the rest of the film (which is entertaining but nothing that makes the true Pixar connection).For example, Ratatouille without the end monologue is a fun high class animation but lacking substance to even be considered that high.Up without the beginning (or Ellie moments) is a really good animation but nowhere near BP quality.Toy Story 3 without its ending wouldn't be regarded nearly as well as it was (it was still high quality the whole time). It was the ending that made it.Without the third act Monsters University would have been near Croods quality.The only great Pixar films that really break this trend are Finding Nemo and The Incredibles. Both of continual moments throughout the movie that captivate you and your soul.

 

A Bug's Life isn't Pixar's greatest, but I think people generally give it much less credit than it deserves. I actually think it is a very solid film.

 

While the third act in Monsters University was good and had a touch of that Pixar brilliance, it could not save that movie from being mediocre, second only to Cars 2 in the Pixar canon. It was not without its fair share of problems, but The Croods was refreshingly cartoony with a boatload of heart; miles ahead of MU, with or without that third act. It wishes it was even remotely near The Croods quality.

[The Panda]

IMO, Ratatouille is better than all of those sans The Incredibles. It has tight storytelling and great characterization throughout. The monologue provides the perfect ending to a near-perfect film; it doesn't serve to elevate a lesser film.Conversely, I think the prologue in Up is exactly what you claim the end monologue in Ratatouille is. I think the opening minutes of Up are pretty much perfect and 100% sincere. However, while I do think there is a truly special story in there post-prologue, it is stretched quite thin due to the crazy bird and talking dog antics, as well as an unnecessary villain that the story could have done quite well without. Honestly, I think it could have cut down on the excess and done much better as a 30-60 min film.And I never had the impression that Monsters, Inc. is generally regarded as one of Pixar's lesser films. I think it is one of Pixar's most consistent films, with one of the biggest hearts.A Bug's Life isn't Pixar's greatest, but I think people generally give it much less credit than it deserves. I actually think it is a very solid film.While the third act in Monsters University was good and had a touch of that Pixar brilliance, it could not save that movie from being mediocre, second only to Cars 2 in the Pixar canon. It was not without its fair share of problems, but The Croods was refreshingly cartoony with a boatload of heart; miles ahead of MU, with or without that third act. It wishes it was even remotely near The Croods quality.

Umm, no the Croods wasn't good, it was typical Dreamworks hogwash. Now MU wasn't great, it was certainly stronger than the Croods, the ending alone makes it better.

[Spidey Freak]

Umm, no the Croods wasn't good, it was typical Dreamworks hogwash. Now MU wasn't great, it was certainly stronger than the Croods, the ending alone makes it better.

 

Naah, the lovely Emma and Da Cage ensured The Croods had loads of charm and heart throughout. Definitely more consistent than MU, which someone here rightfully described as a watered down Revenge of the Nerds.

 

It was still leagues better than the stain on humanity DM2 though. That's the only film in this Top 100 whose inclusion irks me. *Sean Penn voice* Shame on everyone of you who voted for it! SHAME ON YOU! /*Sean Penn voice*

[celticmoon]

Umm, no the Croods wasn't good, it was typical Dreamworks hogwash. Now MU wasn't great, it was certainly stronger than the Croods, the ending alone makes it better.

 

Umm, no. 

 

(See, I can play this game too.  )

 

All kidding aside, we'll just have agree to disagree, I suppose.

 

 

Naah, the lovely Emma and Da Cage ensured The Croods had loads of charm and heart throughout. Definitely more consistent than MU, which someone here rightfully described as a watered down Revenge of the Nerds.

 

Personally, I'm surprised that The Croods didn't reach near-KPF levels of critical success.

Edited September 6, 2014 by celticmoon

[Empire]

Eh, I thought The Croods was really average. I think I gave it a C or thereabouts. 

[Ethan Hunt]

The Croods was a good film. I like MU better though

[Johnny Wiseau]

glad Aladdin and Beauty & Beast made the top 10..

 

BatB is the best animation of all time 

[Jandrew]

Dafuq is a Delgo?

[iceroll]

Dafuq is a Delgo?

It's the best animated film of all time

[Spidey Freak]

It's the best animated film of all time

 

Dat Freddie Prinze Jr. effect!

 

[Kalo]

This list is amazing, I had Lion King at 2 and Beauty and the Beast at  1 so pretty good! also If I remember Frozen was right at 13 for me. Tangled could have been higher though, as well as Prince of Egypt and Little mermaid. 

[Johnny Wiseau]

This list is amazing, I had Lion King at 2 and Beauty and the Beast at  1 so pretty good! also If I remember Frozen was right at 13 for me. Tangled could have been higher though, as well as Prince of Egypt and Little mermaid. 

"we don't like what we don't understand and in fact it scares us and this monster is mysterious at least"

 

best line from best Disney song from best animation ever 

[Goffe]

STOP LIKING THIS MOVIE PLEASE

GTFOH, thank you

[Spidey Freak]

"we don't like what we don't understand and in fact it scares us and this monster is mysterious at least"

 

best line from best Disney song from best animation ever 

 

Well, it is more nuanced than "They're different from us which means they can't be trusted. Savages! Savages!" I will give it that.

[mahnamahna]

I'd definitely disagree with your reasoning on TLK and BatB being inconsistent, they are some of Disney's most consistent films.

Agreed, there's a reason why B&tB got a BP nod over Aladdin and Little Mermaid. It has some of the best pacing for a Disney film, and Belle was a lot more likable/admirable than Ariel. Plus, the film stuck to the castle as its primary locale. And there's not one moment that makes B&tB great. It's the introduction to the Beast's sad story, "Belle", Gaston and LeFou's banter, Lumiere, "Be Our Guest", the fight scene with Beast and the wolves, the ballroom dance to "Beauty and the Beast", the climax, and also the Transformation scene.

 

You're expecting way too much if you thought a standard romance film would be as epic as a gigantic genie or a sea monster. But that's not what B&tB is all about... for the story it tells, it's perfectly executed. 

 

Likewise, The Lion King is one of the four classics/masterpieces from 1994 including Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, and Forrest Gump (it's become underrated at this point). It's got stellar pacing as well - never overstays its welcome. Circle of Life sequence, most every song except Morning Report, the stampede, Mufasa instilling wisdom to Simba, the climax, "Hakuna Matata": all great.

 

Why would Lion King and B&tB be chosen for re-releases first if Mermaid and Aladdin were the higher quality entries? 

 

I love all four, but it's pretty obvious LK and B&TB are both just a step ahead of Mermaid and Aladdin in terms of quality if you go by accolades. Aladdin's right behind them though, and I still think Robin Williams should have gotten an Oscar nod for Genie. 

 

The second half of TLK could have been a lot tighter. While Hakuna Matata is awesome, the other Timon and Pumba scenes tend to drag. Also, as Talisman said, Adult Simba never fully regained the charm and chutzpah of Kid Simba. As for BatB, while the pacing is a lot better than TLK's, replace the transformation sequence with something mundane, and you end up with a movie that is far, FAR less impressive.

Adult Simba is also well... an adult! One who's been sulking over his father's death and not being able to see his family for years. Why would you expect him to be happy-go-lucky? Sure, he might be "Hakuna Matata" on the outside, but inside he's hurting.

 

You can't expect him to be playful and boisterous when he blames himself for so much. I don't know that many adults that act the way kid Simba does anyways (over the age of 25 anyways). 

Woah there, Monsters Inc is a classy film and not in ABL category. Personally, I think most Pixar films rely on certain moments/segments to carry the rest of the film (which is entertaining but nothing that makes the true Pixar connection). For example, Ratatouille without the end monologue is a fun high class animation but lacking substance to even be considered that high.Up without the beginning (or Ellie moments) is a really good animation but nowhere near BP quality. Toy Story 3 without its ending wouldn't be regarded nearly as well as it was (it was still high quality the whole time). It was the ending that made it.Without the third act Monsters University would have been near Croods quality.The only great Pixar films that really break this trend are Finding Nemo and The Incredibles. Both of continual moments throughout the movie that captivate you and your soul.

A Bug's Life is great.... but I agree that a lot of Pixar movies ride on moments. Finding Nemo and The Incredibles really were the most consistent. Both should have gotten BP nods. I'd even say Toy Story 1 & 2 are pretty consistent, too- the pacing for both is fairly good, especially TS2 since they had to balance Woody's story with the rest of the gang's journey. 

 

Toy Story 3 was pretty great even without the last 5 minutes. Remove the last 30 and first 10... I might agree. But most films wouldn't be as good if you took half their runtime out 

[Spidey Freak]

Agreed, there's a reason why B&tB got a BP nod over Aladdin and Little Mermaid. It has some of the best pacing for a Disney film, and Belle was a lot more likable/admirable than Ariel. Plus, the film stuck to the castle as its primary locale. And there's not one moment that makes B&tB great. It's the introduction to the Beast's sad story, "Belle", Gaston and LeFou's banter, Lumiere, "Be Our Guest", the fight scene with Beast and the wolves, the ballroom dance to "Beauty and the Beast", the climax, and also the Transformation scene.

 

You're expecting way too much if you thought a standard romance film would be as epic as a gigantic genie or a sea monster. But that's not what B&tB is all about... for the story it tells, it's perfectly executed. 

 

Aren't most of these points really subjective? I mean, Belle being more likeable and admirable than Ariel? Ariel does not get the appreciation she deserves for outwitting a shark, saving a man from a shipwreck inferno and swimming him to shore and taking on Ursula in the climax. Ditto for the songs. I just enjoy the TLM and Aladdin albums more than BatB soundtrack. TLM soundtrack is still in my opinion, Alan Menken's greatest achievement.

 

As for the romance vs. epics part, technically Mermaid wasn't all that more epic in scope to BatB (though the underwater sequences were scintillating). Where both BatB and TLK fall short for me when compared to Aladdin and TLM are the cast ensemble. There is just a little bit of the chemistry and spark missing in TLK and especially BatB that the casts of Aladdin and Mermaid had.

 

 

 

Likewise, The Lion King is one of the four classics/masterpieces from 1994 including Pulp Fiction, Shawshank, and Forrest Gump (it's become underrated at this point). It's got stellar pacing as well - never overstays its welcome. Circle of Life sequence, most every song except Morning Report, the stampede, Mufasa instilling wisdom to Simba, the climax, "Hakuna Matata": all great.

 

 

TLK came when the Renaissance wave was at its commercial and critical peak with the build-up created by Mermaid, BatB and then Aladdin. It was destined to make more unless it sucked royally hard (like Pocahontas). It owes a big part of its success to those three movies. Also, there are critic lists (TimeOut being one that I remember), where Aladdin is the highest ranked Renaissance movie.

 

 

 

 

Why would Lion King and B&tB be chosen for re-releases first if Mermaid and Aladdin were the higher quality entries? 

 

That's Disney reasoning. TLK was the highest grosser and BatB got the BP nom so they tend to believe those two movies are the stronger of the Big Four, whether it is actually true or not. Also, in the 90's, it was Mermaid and Aladdin that received highly successful television spin-off series. In fact, Aladdin merchandising was EVERYWHERE in the 90's. We've discussed this in the Frozen thread last year, but post-9/11, Disney has definitely de-emphasized Aladdin. That plays into it being shoved into the Vault for some time as well.   

 

 

 

 

Adult Simba is also well... an adult! One who's been sulking over his father's death and not being able to see his family for years. Why would you expect him to be happy-go-lucky? Sure, he might be "Hakuna Matata" on the outside, but inside he's hurting.

 

You can make a highly appealing, troubled adult character. Matthew Broderick's Adult Simba wasn't that. At all.

[Avatree]

A few strange films on this list. Mary Poppins? Enchanted? Team America?

 

This might sound a little controversial but I think Shrek is the best animated film ever made. It's excellently written, is witty and funny throughout, without going over the top crazy, and still manages to have important themes and well-designed messages. Its three leads are interesting and gel really well together. It successfully mocks Disney and Pixar not only through its sense of humour, but by taking Disney's formula for family films and simply doing it better. It's backed by a fantastic soundtrack, and while its songs aren't original, they're a hundred times better than that of most Disney films, at least in the context of the film. Most importantly, it pushed the ancient genre forward to genuinely appeal to adults as well as their kids. It's a hilarious and heartfelt film for everyone, and I don't believe any other animated film has managed to do better.

 

I do love The Lion King and I think it works great as an enjoyable, lovable film for kids, but I don't think it's a superb film in its own right. (The same goes for quite a few classic Disney films like The Jungle Book)

I also think Toy Story 2 is absolutely marvellous and sits near Shrek.

Edited November 12, 2014 by treeroy

[Plain Old Tele]

With the list revealed, I'm moving this back to the Speakeasy.