Whiplash (2014)

[Kalo]

I'm still ... processing it .. there is a lot to take in. 

[BK007]

Well, it was well made, had some great performances but as far as favourites go, it didn't get me like Boyhood, Birdman, Edge of Tomorrow, Dawn of the Apes or Dragon 2 (on first watch).

 

Maybe it's because I went in looking for JK Simmons to be great, and he did a great job, but I was left rather more underwhelmed than say Keaton and Redmayne.

 

Teller did surprise me though. I actually, pretty much, dislike his "acting" in everything I've seen him in. It all seems to be the same character and also fake. However, I think he did wonderfully here. His character has more layers than Simmons and although it doesn't compare to the other two I mentioned, he's still got a long career ahead of him to get there and this finally convinces me he has something more to offer than "fake jock". Speaking of which, Simmons character has depth, yes, but is it really that difficult to play him or was he just good casting. Yes, he has to deliver, but the only other thing I've seen him in, Spiderman, unless he was on Everybody Loves Raymond, it is the same manifestation of Jonah Jameson. So, I'm not that wowed. 

 

Regarding the Teller break up scene, I can see how it may be construed as a dick move, and of course he is thinking about himself, but he is also thinking about her when he does this. I don't think it really matters how much he is thinking about himself more, but he still considers her and the most likely scenario. It's not like actual dickheads who are cheating or etc. Plus, I'm not sure how many of you think about this, but getting into a relationship when you are not comfortable with yourself spells trouble. If you can't love yourself, you can't love anyone else. People rush into relationships or perhaps think "it's just for now", but honestly, what's the point in one if it doesn't even have the slightest chance of leading somewhere? So, I think it was a reasonable thing for him to do, not like string her along and then cheat on her when he gets famous or abuse her because he's under pressure etc. 

 

Regarding the ending, I love how Simmons turns the tables on Teller and then Teller does the same. It never feels like they will be happily ever after even though Teller proves himself on a big stage and Simmons almost fulfils what he had set out to do. I agree with baumer that Simmons fights for himself. He straight up lies about his trumpeteer's death and though he sheds tears, it really seems more ones of disappointment as opposed to grief. The fact that Teller has no friends that he has to call his ex-girlfriend to see him perform also seems to fit into the delusion of chasing a dream so relentlessly you lose touch with the world...this of course is already epitomized by the car crash and then Simmons throwing him out. I wouldn't say Teller was likeable considering the amount of bullshit he stirred up between friends, performers and even his own dedication to his art, but I could empathize with him. 

[Kalo]

 

Regarding the Teller break up scene, I can see how it may be construed as a dick move, and of course he is thinking about himself, but he is also thinking about her when he does this. I don't think it really matters how much he is thinking about himself more, but he still considers her and the most likely scenario. It's not like actual dickheads who are cheating or etc. Plus, I'm not sure how many of you think about this, but getting into a relationship when you are not comfortable with yourself spells trouble. If you can't love yourself, you can't love anyone else. People rush into relationships or perhaps think "it's just for now", but honestly, what's the point in one if it doesn't even have the slightest chance of leading somewhere? So, I think it was a reasonable thing for him to do, not like string her along and then cheat on her when he gets famous or abuse her because he's under pressure etc. 

 

 

 

Yes considering where his priorities were, it was right for him to not pursue her, but he pretty much told her that he was better than her, because he had his life planned out. and knew what he wanted and she didn't, which is a complete dick thing to do.

 

I also found this film really complex, perhaps even a different meaning depending on how you see it. I think how I see it was, he wanted to be the best ever, at whatever cost no matter what he had to do to get there, I found this very much to be a horror story.

 

Spoilers ahead. 

 

Because even though he played his heart out in the end and was unbelievably fantastic, he pretty much gave up everything for it, he had no friends, didn't care about anyone but himself. and Melissa Benoist, in a since I found to represent his humanity, and when he broke up with her he gave up his last bit of it, and by the end of the movie he is essentially an empty shell. 

 

which don't get me wrong I loved the movie, I found it to be extremely deep, and that is just one interpretation I have. 

Edited February 25, 2015 by Kalo

[DAR]

Worthy of every accolade it received. An easy pick as the best film of 2014 and possibly the best film of the last two years. I'm giving this a rare A+

[BK007]

I'd also argue, though I'm not sure if anyone were arguing against this, that it's ending is not a triumph for the character. It looks nice, shiny and happy, but it is bleak as fuck. So the ambiguity and discussion that the director wanted to create by leaving an open ending, really isn't. Teller just practiced two songs to perfection- he's still a nobody, but along the way he lost his humanity. It's sheer will and determination but he's robotic and a slave to the equally disgraced and depressing Simmons. 

 

Once again I can empathize with the character, but I do not identify at any point with him and for that reason, to me, it is simply a well made movie, but one that I'd never watch again and would probably not remember in a few years as oppose to those that left me impressioned. 

Edited February 26, 2015 by BK007

[CoolioD1]

Judging by the interview brought up in this thread I think the director agrees with you that the ending is bleak.

[baumer]

It's bleak but it was his way of saying fuck you to Fletcher and that's what we all wanted to see, imo.

[Kalo]

I'd also argue, though I'm not sure if anyone were arguing against this, that it's ending is not a triumph for the character. It looks nice, shiny and happy, but it is bleak as fuck. So the ambiguity and discussion that the director wanted to create by leaving an open ending, really isn't. Teller just practiced two songs to perfection- he's still a nobody, but along the way he lost his humanity. It's sheer will and determination but he's robotic and a slave to the equally disgraced and depressing Simmons. 

 

Once again I can empathize with the character, but I do not identify at any point with him and for that reason, to me, it is simply a well made movie, but one that I'd never watch again and would probably not remember in a few years as oppose to those that left me impressioned. 

I completely agree with that. (on the first part) I found the ending to be incredibly eerie, and haunting. I also think in end when you see Fletcher smiling it's because he made Andrew himself, he had become just like him by the end. Fletcher had he won.

Edited February 26, 2015 by Kalo

[filmlover]

This was absolutely amazing. Damien Chazelle has made a remarkable first major impression with this feature; in a way, this is something of a companion piece to Black Swan, as both films dissect the desire to be "perfect" within a specific profession while subverting all of the clichés typically found within the "underdog rises to the top/inspirational teacher drama" genre. Of course, Whiplash wouldn't be nearly as terrific a film as it is without the two completely absorbing performances at its center. Miles Teller has easily established himself as one of the very best actors of his generation by being game for the various challenges of this role (bro can really play the drums), but, as has been well-established at this point, J.K. Simmons walks away with the film and then some. Simmons has never given a bad performance throughout his long and respected career as a character actor, and he sinks his teeth into the role of the music teacher from hell while also adding some nuances that enhances him beyond a one-dimensional villain. It's a mesmerizing, sure-to-be-iconic performance that he completely deserves his Oscar for. Another star of Whiplash is, most surprisingly, its production values: the editing and sound design enhance the experience. The only thing I can complain about is that some of the minor storylines involving Teller's personal life (his relationship with his father, his would-be romance with the girl that works at the movie theater) end up being somewhat of an afterthought. Otherwise, this is an intense rollercoaster of a picture that had me walking out of the theater feeling a major adrenaline rush. A

[RobinHood26]

For a moment I thought it was going to go off the rails but then it just brings it. The last 15 minutes are perfect and it literally ends on a perfect note.

A- (92)

[Michael Gary Scott]

Great film

5/5

Edited March 7, 2015 by Michael Gary Scottt

[kaijukurt]

This film is balls-to-the-wall insane.

A+

[bartonfink]

Black Swan or The Social Network in the music scene. A most dazzling paean about obsession and self-destructive madness. Eventually naive boy gets pseudo-father then becomes another monster like him. Anyway pretty haunting film.

[baumer]

Just googled paean....just learned new word.

[luna]

basically a defense of that thing we always criticise the chinese for. the drum solo at the end was pretty fucking epic i admit though, i do love me some jazz.

 

3.8/10

[Jake Gittes]

A defense of what?

[luna]

well, that he ended up such a great drummer basically vindicated the abusive methods of the teacher. the ending bothered me greatly. though i wasn't a big fan of the rest anyway, the second hand embarrassment i felt during the romance scenes was something vicious. so utterly contrived it becomes painful.

 

anyway.

 

i like jazz.

[Jake Gittes]

Well, in my eyes, it's a story about two particular fucked-up people, not any kind of a grand-scale argument that greatness can only be achieved through abuse or that abuse is cool as long as it makes someone the next Charlie Parker. Simmons' character may believe in the latter, but I don't think the movie agrees at all. Can you imagine anything but a dark future for the guy? He's messed up for life, if he even lives for very long.

 

Not sure what's contrived or embarrassing about the romance scenes. They're strictly functional, which is a problem, but they felt pretty authentic, especially the assholish, cringe-worthy way Teller decided to end the relationship. 

 

Glad we can agree on jazz, though. 

Edited May 2, 2015 by Jake Gittes

[luna]

jazz?

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tgrQhBTDfhk

[Avatree]

basically a defense of that thing we always criticise the chinese for. the drum solo at the end was pretty fucking epic i admit though, i do love me some jazz.

 

3.8/10

Why do you always dislike great movies

 

And I don't see how it was a defence. Fletcher was a villain unless you disagree?