Dreamworks Animation: What Went Wrong?

[Sir Tiki]

They're so hit and miss in quality it is hard to believe they carried so much brand name power for so long in some ways. I mean really we have Shrek 1/2, KFP1, and HTTYD 1/2 that are considered "great" by many who saw them. Otherwise, none of their others have that reputation among the majority consensus.

 

I think it speaks to the problem that DreamWorks has never had a phenomenon-level hit beyond Shrek. They've had big hits (Madagascar, Kung Fu Panda, How to Train Your Dragon) but nothing that permeates and dominates pop culture the way that Disney's biggest films tend to do (Snow White, Lion King, Frozen, etc.). And Shrek should have become DreamWorks' Toy Story or even Ice Age, an evergreen franchise that still makes money two decades after the first film, but the failure to properly cultivate it has left it dead. That leaves them with pretty much squat in terms of juggernaut merchandise franchises, which has become vital to both year-end profits as well as expanding the longevity of popular family movies (thanks to the death of theatrical re-releases in the 1990s).

[Jonwo]

WDA could be what went wrong, and the same goes for Pixar to an extent. If we look at history, Pixar came into prominence the same year Pocahontas saw the Disney renaissance start its downtrend. DWA came into prominence with Shrek, 2 years after the renaissance was officially considered dead. Before Pixar/DWA they had always more or less been the kings of the animated feature industry, whether they were very successful or not. Every other animated movie not from Disney had to fight hard to even get their movies released. Now that WDA seem to have re-claimed their throne for the first time since all these CG studios came into prominence, a similar thing could be happening. Other studios will have to fight a lot harder to compete with the returning "king" of the genre, even the likes of a once juggernaut like Pixar. DWA movies that look unappealing to start with like Turbo or Home, are especially going to get crushed. They can't just throw out anything and expect the brand name to carry it anymore. Disney has the brand name draw power back in their monopolization.

 

I think the success of Despicable Me 1 and 2, The Lego Movie as well as films like Rio and Hotel Transylvania shows that there is enough to go around but the films have to be appealing. 

 

Illumination Entertainment had has huge success since their inception but I do wonder whether it can produce another film that can equal the success of DM. The Lorax did very well domestically but not so well OS and Hop did okay but again OS it was a flop but both had decent budgets that they made money. 

 

I think the rise of studios like Illumination, SPA, Blue Sky and WB have hurt DWA more than the resurgence of WDAS although that has played a part. Audiences who want an alternative to WDAS and Pixar have plenty of choices, whereas before it was just DWA for a long time.

[Ruthie]

While I enjoy many of the DWA movies, there's something missing in them.  They lack a certain truthfulness or connection, and much of the emotion seems awfully forced.  Shrek 1 got away with it because of the novelty, but it became glaringly obvious in 2 - 4.  KFP2 got away with it because it was parody, but there were still points that I could tell they were trying to hard to generate emotion.  It seems like DWA has been aiming for telling stories to compel the audience, instead of just telling compelling stories. 

[Spidey Freak]

There were really only two things he gave WDAS: the dynamic duo of Howard Ashman and Alan Menken (on the advice of his friend David Geffen, who had recently worked with these off-off-Broadway musical collaborators on Little Shop of Horrors), and a hard kick in the pants by moving WDAS off the studio lot and threatening to outsource their animated features overseas (making it easier to wipe out the old guard and to be bold in what they did).

Otherwise, he mainly got in their way a lot and put his face in front of the camera every chance he got, taking a lot of credit for what WDAS had accomplished. And by the way, he and Eisner were actually going to do what they threatened at first, but Roy E. Disney (Walt's nephew, who had brought these guys on board in the first place) stopped them and as an executive took responsibility for WDAS and whether they would succeed or fail (although Katzenberg still sucked up all of the credit in front of the public, which has made him a celebrity executive even to this day ).

 

Plus, Katzenberg wanted to remove "Part of Your World" and "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid. That right there shows his judgement skills. If Ashman and co. hadn't managed to sway him, Mermaid would have been a FAR, FAR less soulful movie and automatically less successful. And Mermaid's mediocre to poor BO could have had terrible effects for the Renaissance movies that built on its success. In one fell swoop, an entire magical era that defined the formative years of my generation could have been wiped out right in its infancy due to Katzenberg's cluelessness.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Spidey Freak

[kowhite]

It's amazing how just maybe even two years ago...I would've said the Dreamworks Animation brand meant something.

Now I'm starting to think it's not just meaningless, but aa negative. Dragon 2 should've done better. If it doesn't win thaat animation Oscar, and Big Hero does...there's something going seriously on.

[Jonwo]

Plus, Katzenberg wanted to remove "Part of Your World" and "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid. That right there shows his judgement skills. If Ashman and co. hadn't managed to sway him, Mermaid would have been a FAR, FAR less soulful movie and automatically less successful. And Mermaid's mediocre to poor BO could have had terrible effects for the Renaissance movies that built on its success. In one fell swoop, an entire magical era that defined the formative years of my generation could have been wiped out right in its infancy due to Katzenberg's cluelessness.

That almost happened in The Wizard of Oz as they wanted to cut Over the Rainbow as they thought it slowed down the film. The Wizard of Oz wouldn't be as near as iconic had that happened.

[kowhite]

That almost happened in The Wizard of Oz as they wanted to cut Over the Rainbow as they thought it slowed down the film. The Wizard of Oz wouldn't be as near as iconic had that happened.

Bet that was Kaatzenberg was to blame for that too. Don't give me that "time travel is impossible" BfS either...

[Spidey Freak]

Bet that was Kaatzenberg was to blame for that too. Don't give me that "time travel is impossible" BfS either...

 

Naah, he'd never pull it off. He would micromanage the building of the time machine to such an extent that his workers would probably die of exhaustion. Then he'd outsource the time machine construction and settle for an inferior product which would take him back only till Return to Oz (1985).

[Goffe]

While I enjoy many of the DWA movies, there's something missing in them.  They lack a certain truthfulness or connection, and much of the emotion seems awfully forced.  Shrek 1 got away with it because of the novelty, but it became glaringly obvious in 2 - 4.  KFP2 got away with it because it was parody, but there were still points that I could tell they were trying to hard to generate emotion.  It seems like DWA has been aiming for telling stories to compel the audience, instead of just telling compelling stories. 

KFP2 and Shrek2 are great and emotional. Next.

[Spidey Freak]

KFP2 and Shrek2 are great and emotional. Next.

 

Can't argue about that. Fiona's entire backstory is pretty sad. Damn you opportunistic and evil Fairy Godmother!!

[Melvin Frohike]

Plus, Katzenberg wanted to remove "Part of Your World" and "Kiss the Girl" from The Little Mermaid. That right there shows his judgement skills. If Ashman and co. hadn't managed to sway him, Mermaid would have been a FAR, FAR less soulful movie and automatically less successful.

That's right, and it was the usual "I saw a kid squirm" (during a test screening) excuse. If the Disney Renaissance, which eventually ignited a broader Animation Renaissance that is still going, had fizzled before it even got started, then who knows, WDAS might have been shuttered as originally planned (before Katzenberg began to give a crap about animation, which he hadn't at all before WDAS really got going), and Pixar might have never gotten into the business as they did, probably eventually getting swallowed up by a studio as a VFX unit or going out of business as many such companies do; in addition, PDI might not have fared any better, DWA would not have existed, and so on and so forth, so we're talking about some potentially very serious consequences here.

Maybe Beauty and the Beast could have pulled this off anyway, but then again it probably would not have existed as we know it, since a less successful The Little Mermaid, particularly as a musical, would have made it more difficult to justify restarting Beauty and the Beast as a musical, and the original version of this movie would have been totally different and, based on the original story reel that many of us have likely seen by now (by the way, the music from the final movie was added later, which is confusing), it probably would have sucked pretty hard.

So thank you Howard Ashman for fighting for your songs (and writing them!), and thank you Ron Clements (feels like Thanksgiving all over again! ) for fighting so hard earlier to get Katzenberg to change his mind about The Little Mermaid, which was originally "gonged" when it was pitched, meaning that the project was summarily rejected and wasn't getting the green light. Oh, alright, thank you Katzenberg, a little, for not being a total butt and actually listening to your filmmakers sometimes--he wasn't quite as pigheaded as most executives back then, and could be swayed if you made a strong enough argument. I don't know about now, though, because DWA reeks of his personal touch...but at least he lets people like Dean DeBlois make great movies, so there is something to be said for that. He still needs to get real, though--and fast!

Edited December 2, 2014 by Melvin Frohike

[CloneWars]

It's amazing how just maybe even two years ago...I would've said the Dreamworks Animation brand meant something.

Now I'm starting to think it's not just meaningless, but aa negative. Dragon 2 should've done better. If it doesn't win thaat animation Oscar, and Big Hero does...there's something going seriously on.

You have nothing to worry about since Lego is winning the Oscar.

[Sal]

It's amazing how just maybe even two years ago...I would've said the Dreamworks Animation brand meant something.

Now I'm starting to think it's not just meaningless, but aa negative. Dragon 2 should've done better. If it doesn't win thaat animation Oscar, and Big Hero does...there's something going seriously on.

 

The trouble with the Animation Oscar is that it's just too broad a category. What are they judging on?  The quality of the animation?  The overall visual look? Is that better or more important than the story.  Should a solid story that plays it safe have the advantage over something a bit more out there or should it be penalized?  Is being innovative and groundbreaking supposed to give points? Should something win based on the merit of its comedic elements... or is it comedy=bad?  Who judges the comedy in an animated film anyway.  And in what universe is pitting an animated Japanese drama against a lively upbeat adventure for kids fair?

 

The fact of the matter is that there shouldn't be ONE Oscar for animation and that they should probably qualify in other categories.  Unfortunately having that catch-all Animation category means they never have to worry about animated films being measured against their precious live-action Oscar-bait films.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sal

[MovieMan89]

While I enjoy many of the DWA movies, there's something missing in them.  They lack a certain truthfulness or connection, and much of the emotion seems awfully forced.  Shrek 1 got away with it because of the novelty, but it became glaringly obvious in 2 - 4.  KFP2 got away with it because it was parody, but there were still points that I could tell they were trying to hard to generate emotion.  It seems like DWA has been aiming for telling stories to compel the audience, instead of just telling compelling stories. 

Yeah, that emotional resonance is a problem they have too. I really like Shrek 1/2, KFP 1/2, and HTTYD 1/2, but out of all 6 of those HTTYD1 is the only one I feel really reaches that "incredible" tier and can be called an animated classic. It has the emotional heft all the others seem to just miss out on.

[Rudolf]

DreamWorks' main problem is budget control. They need $400m OS for Croods to be successful. Illumination can be happy with $134m OS for the Lorax because it only cost them 70m to make it. 

Lego movie only made $133m outside the English speaking world. But with a budget of 60m it did not matter.

A budget of 132m for Penguins, which you can see free on TV is simply too much to stand a chance of making a profit. It could have the best story,music and animation , it still would not make money.

[Kalo]

Because aside from How to Train Your Dragon 2.. they haven't had a good film like really good anyways since like.. well How to Train Your Dragon. Kung Fu Panda 2 was good but not amazing. 

[Melvin Frohike]

DreamWorks' main problem is budget control. They need $400m OS for Croods to be successful. Illumination can be happy with $134m OS for the Lorax because it only cost them 70m to make it. 

Lego movie only made $133m outside the English speaking world. But with a budget of 60m it did not matter.

Well, I guess they could lay off their production staff and set up shop in some place that offers free money (i.e. taxpayer money via government-backed incentives) for making animation and/or pays employees very little. All of these other companies do one or the other at least, while DWA (mostly) operates out of California (Southern and Bay Area), much like WDAS and Pixar.

 

A budget of 132m for Penguins, which you can see free on TV is simply too much to stand a chance of making a profit. It could have the best story,music and animation , it still would not make money.

The other problem with this and some other examples is that I don't see all that money on the screen--you only get that with some DWA movies, but they're all pretty expensive whether they look like they are or not.

[DAJK]

If DWA cut each budget down to 100M, wouldn't all of their past 6 movies at least broken even?

[Sir Tiki]

If DWA cut each budget down to 100M, wouldn't all of their past 6 movies at least broken even?

 

Turbo would have. Peabody would still probably have lost about $12 million, while Guardians would have lost $42 million. Madagascar 3, Croods and Dragon 2 would still be in the black regardless given how well they did.

Edited December 2, 2014 by Sir Tiki

[DAJK]

Turbo would have. Peabody would still probably have lost about $12 million, while Guardians would have lost $42 million. Madagascar 3, Croods and Dragon 2 would still be in the black regardless given how well they did.

But guardians made over 300WW... that's more DOM and OS than Turbo...