Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[Pure Spirit]

14 hours ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

 

Brave of her to come out as a libertarian in Hollywood. Not libertarian myself but I can respect the NAP.

Edited June 22, 2018 by Pure Spirit

[LaughingEvans]

6 hours ago, StevenG said:

The Last Jedi grossed 1.3 billion dollars and got a 91 % Fresh score at RT.

How exactly is this a franchise imploding?

Because it underperformed by an unacceptable for the investors margin, and damaged the sure fire faith the fans had to it. 

 

A brand is not one movie, it's a continuous product. If a movie hinders the success of the following movies, then you can't say it was a successful movie. 

[The Futurist]

7 hours ago, StevenG said:

The Last Jedi grossed 1.3 billion dollars and got a 91 % Fresh score at RT.

How exactly is this a franchise imploding?

Last Jedi really only appealed to the Hereditary fans of the world, the self-proclained cinephile elite.

Most fans were irritated by the movie, at best.

[TomCruiseTop]

12 hours ago, LaughingEvans said:

 

I'll take @IronJimbo and @JamesCameronScholar over the snyder fans every day.

over the SW fans as well.

The fact there's about three of us and we're being called that gives me a certain sense of pride. 

 

James "proving everyone else wrong since '97" Cameron 

[TomCruiseTop]

1 hour ago, LaughingEvans said:

Because it underperformed by an unacceptable for the investors margin, and damaged the sure fire faith the fans had to it. 

 

A brand is not one movie, it's a continuous product. If a movie hinders the success of the following movies, then you can't say it was a successful movie. 

Totally agree. In fact I think I actually underestimated the damage that TLJ has seemingly done to the SW brand. I never imagined I'd see a SW movie gross under $400m worldwide. Still can't quite get my head around that one. 

[IronJimbo]

8 hours ago, Pure Spirit said:

If we equated money with quality, you'd find us worshiping the MCU. And we aren't running down SW, Kathleen Kennedy is doing a fine job of that herself. Watching a franchise implode isn't the same as wishing it would. There's a lot more out there than the MCU/SW, that's a very narrow-minded view of film.

 

I'll even admit IW was decent with one or two genuine emotional moments among the million quips and lazy writing. It has a long way to go to catch up with Avatar's tight-pacing and 15 knot-in-your-throat moments (nevermind Titanic's ability to make grown men sob), but at least Marvel is dipping their timid toes in the water of making actual cinema, which is nice to see. 

 

Finally, find a single moment in the entire MCU/nu-Wars with more heart than a small scene in the least commercially successful film in Cameron's filmography. Unlike Lindsey, I won't be holding my breath.
 

What dulap does is make something up then doens't defend it.

 

The two classics are.

"Avatar fanboys say money = artistic merit"

"Avatar fanboys hate everything that makes money that isn't Avatar"

 

Both are obviously false but dulap repeats them often.

 

You're completely right about MCU/Nu-wars, they lack heart. They aren't gripping and never have you on the edge of your seat, it's simply a neat experience which is fun. You can feel watching them that they are studio-made rather than having a visionary behind them.

[StevenG]

 

57 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Totally agree. In fact I think I actually underestimated the damage that TLJ has seemingly done to the SW brand. I never imagined I'd see a SW movie gross under $400m worldwide. Still can't quite get my head around that one. 

Wait...So people think that Solo's flopping is a result of TLJ's alleged tainting of the brand?

Have you seen Solo? Solo flopping was entirely its own fault.

When Episode X once  grosses 1.5 billion dollars minimum, will people shut up about this alleged implosion/crumbling of the SW franchise?

[IronJimbo]

9 minutes ago, StevenG said:

 

Wait...So people think that Solo's flopping is a result of TLJ's alleged tainting of the brand?

Have you seen Solo? Solo flopping was entirely its own fault.

When Episode X once  grosses 1.5 billion dollars minimum, will people shut up about this alleged implosion/crumbling of the SW franchise?

I've found the quality of a movie doesn't really affect the opening weekend and Solo's opening weekend was terrible.

[LaughingEvans]

5 minutes ago, StevenG said:

Wait...So people think that Solo's flopping is a result of TLJ's alleged tainting of the brand?

 

Yes. 

 

Also, using words like "alleged" is gaslighting at it's finest.

 

Here are the facts:

• The predictions had it at 1.6 billion. And these were mildly modest. In any case, it brought at least 300 million less than what the investors expected.
• Word of mouth for the movie was bad as evident by the huge drops every weekend.
• The merchandise sales were much lower than expected, an immediate response of the fan's dissaproval
• For months Rian and the squad fought with the fans online, whether they were on the right side or not doesn't matter, they clearly had a lot of fans disillusioned, which resulted in much less interest in Solo.
• Most of  the critical discussion for TLJ has been averted to social politics of the lowest common denominator. People who criticized TLJ, but would be willing to give a second chance, had their character attacked rather than their points argued, called racists/bigots et cetera. That alienates people. 

 

Now if the next episode manages to address  what went wrong with TLJ and make amends with the fandom, then yeah, I won't deny it's success, even more so, I'd say that if something like that happens, that would be a huge feat, following TLJ and being a success.

[TomCruiseTop]

29 minutes ago, LaughingEvans said:

Now if the next episode manages to address  what went wrong with TLJ and make amends with the fandom, then yeah, I won't deny it's success, even more so, I'd say that if something like that happens, that would be a huge feat, following TLJ and being a success.

I think JJ has a really tough job on his hands, he has a lot to do both story, quality, and fandom wise in so little time. I hope he can pull it off, but I'm not sure he even has the skill to do so. 

[Rebeccas]

2 hours ago, StevenG said:

 

Wait...So people think that Solo's flopping is a result of TLJ's alleged tainting of the brand?

Have you seen Solo? Solo flopping was entirely its own fault.

When Episode X once  grosses 1.5 billion dollars minimum, will people shut up about this alleged implosion/crumbling of the SW franchise?

If film quality was the driving factor for good/bad openings, then the prequels wouldn't have made any money at all lol

[Captain Craig]

15 hours ago, mathemetrics said:

will the dinosaur movies get added here if JW2 over-performs and hotly anticipated sequels are scheduled?

Jurassic Park is already eligible by any of it's supporters to chime in here. 

It is very clearly a successful franchise with its own bragging rights. 

[ChipDerby]

Only an idiot would say TLJ damaged the SW brand.

[IronJimbo]

3 minutes ago, ChipMunky said:

Only an idiot would say TLJ damaged the SW brand.

It has damaged the imminent Kathleen brand, they're going to have to reboot again or something.

[ChipDerby]

10 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

It has damaged the imminent Kathleen brand, they're going to have to reboot again or something.

 

No, it hasn't. It damaged its brand to incels and MRAs. Everyone else, even if they didn't like the film, will continue seeing Star Wars films. In droves.

[TalismanRing]

9 hours ago, LaughingEvans said:

 

Here are the facts:

• The predictions had it at 1.6 billion. And these were mildly modest. In any case, it brought at least 300 million less than what the investors expected.

I don't know why.   I had it pegged for about a 30-35% dip. I think I predicted 1.5b for it in the Winter Game to hedge against it possibly going higher but thought 1.4b far more likely.

 

The first was a three plus decades long wait for the return of  Han, Luke & Leia in a series that had been dormant for more than a decade.   A drop off was inevitable and if it followed the prequel pattern, or even SW to TESB then a drop of 30-35% was far more likely than 22.7%. 

 

TESB dropped 32% from SW  domestically and 27.5% WW (not counting all the re-releases).  Revenge of the Sith dropped 30.5% from Phantom Menace domestically and 35% WW and PM didn't have the original trio to pump it up (or a dead Solo for the second one).

 

It was also evident that it was strongest in the older European markets which aren't growing unlike L.A. and Asia so there wasn't going to be that market growth to offset the inevitable sequel drop in the older markets. The rejection of TLJ (and then Solo) in Asia had more to do with their rejection of SW than the film itself.

[IronJimbo]

26 minutes ago, ChipMunky said:

 

No, it hasn't. It damaged its brand to incels and MRAs. Everyone else, even if they didn't like the film, will continue seeing Star Wars films. In droves.

The general audience isn't dumb, if the last film was bad they're less likely to watch the next one.

 

Both TFA and TLJ were bland as hell.

 

See SOLO... case and point

Edited June 22, 2018 by IronJimbo

[Pure Spirit]

50 minutes ago, ChipMunky said:

 

No, it hasn't. It damaged its brand to incels and MRAs. Everyone else, even if they didn't like the film, will continue seeing Star Wars films. In droves.

 

Spoiler

If I hated Star Wars and wanted it to completely die as a franchise (I don't), I couldn't do better than some of the fans in this thread. With stans like these, who needs enemies?

 

[Barnack]

10 hours ago, LaughingEvans said:

Here are the facts:

• The predictions had it at 1.6 billion. And these were mildly modest. In any case, it brought at least 300 million less than what the investors expected.
• Word of mouth for the movie was bad as evident by the huge drops every weekend.

What is the source of that ?,  I am a bit curious how can something be factual and not be a more precise number than this, either we know Disney budgeted box office or we do not ? No ?

 

 

44 minutes ago, TalismanRing said:

I don't know why.   I had it pegged for about a 30-35% dip

Maybe it was 2 recent big franchise example that we got just before Last Jedi, Spectre and Fate 8 movie franchise also coming from obvious local peak for them.

 

Bond: 1,108->880, without China 1048.77 -> 796.5 Adjusted for inflation 1082.68->796.5 (26.5% drop)

Fast  : 1,516->1,236, without China 1,125 -> 843 Adjusted for inflation 1,163.5->843 (27.5% drop)

 

Awaken legs were so good than a bit worst than those above outside China could have been reasonably expected

 

Awaken 1.95b outside China adjust to 2.01b in 2017.

 

A similar to Bond/Fast drop of 27% would have push it to 1.266b outside China, I think most expected last Jedi to not do better than Awaken in the China. With the first one legs and Rogue One legs, market even a bit worst say a bit above Rogue one for a 80m China bo.

 

that make 1.266 + 80m = 1.34b, that a 35% dip.

 

Sony had budgeted a 764m performance for Spectre, a 31% drop with an expected grow in China.

[LaughingEvans]

Only an idiot would jump into a discussion with no meaningful input whatsoever to offer, just to throw insults.

 

I don't mean to generalize here, @ChipMunky you are the idiot here.