Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania | February 17, 2023 | Competing with Eternals on RT, Competing with BvS on box office legs

[Verrows]

3 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

"Marvel doesn't seem like it's building to anything, why are there so many self contained projects" has now turned into "Marvel spends too much time building things, they need more individual projects"

I don't think the fans are doing this kind of about face though. This is what they asked for and it's what they're going to get. Where things really change is if the movie is a real stinker. But if it's a mid-70's on RT kind of deal then It's business as usual and all the hand-wringing is a big nothing burger.

 

I say this as someone that definitely feels like there are cracks starting to show in the Marvel armour too. Phase 4 was....not great. 

[exomassey]

1 minute ago, SpiderByte said:

People spent last two years bitching about Eternals, Shang-Chi, Moon Knight, and She-Hulk, and how all the Avengers were replaced and every other new character that's been introduced, but now it's too many sequels and too much of the old characters?

No yeah I agree with you. 
 

Just seems that people are saying the same shit. It’s hard to care really what critics say when to comes to Marvel now. Everyone either enjoys being on the MCU journey at this stage or you don’t.

[TheFlatLannister]

11 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

"Marvel doesn't seem like it's building to anything, why are there so many self contained projects" has now turned into "Marvel spends too much time building things, they need more individual projects"

Yeah, but this is mostly due to people (some of the GA + critics) getting tired of the MCU. Things they used to gloss over, are now being nitpicked at. 

[Verrows]

1 minute ago, exomassey said:

No yeah I agree with you. 
 

Just seems that people are saying the same shit. It’s hard to care really what critics say when to comes to Marvel now. Everyone either enjoys being on the MCU journey at this stage or you don’t.

Bingo! 

 

In fairness though, on this particular forum people will be mostly commenting on the reviews as it pertains to box office prognostications, which is fair game because reviews are a factor in that sense. But yeah, for people's own personal enjoyment of this franchise the reviews really shouldn't matter. Watch the trailers, look into the synopsis and what characters are being introduced etc, and then decide is how I go about it because I already what these movies are.

 

I mean, I guess I find critics useless regardless of the movie haha. I'm too autonomous in this regard to care about what they have to say, or whether they recommend it or not.

[Verrows]

2 minutes ago, TheFlatLannister said:

Yeah, but this is mostly due to people (some of the GA + critics) getting tired of the MCU. Things they used to gloss over, are now being nitpicked at. 

 I think is a natural progression. There was only so long critics were going to handle these movies with kid gloves. It would be the same with any long running franchise.

[TestPattern]

I'm not trying to start a company war, with the way the Marvel is going, if Superman is a hit, DC can really start making a play.

if it's a failure, I think that's the end of capeshit for the most part because nothing can really inspire confidence in the medium. 

[Valonqar]

27 minutes ago, exomassey said:

Just seems after Endgame people are tired. Same old marvel movies issues, setting up for the next big bad, sequels with the same old characters, same old conversations.

 

No franchise can stay fresh after 20+ movies and it also lost its 2 most beloved characters who were the faces of the franchise - Tony and Steve - without having anyone remotely capable of filling those shoes. People don't get attached to 20+ characters but attachment to 2 is enough to keep the fire burning. There's no one now. Some will say Parker but NWH was superhit because of old Parkers. Doubtful next SM will come even close. 

[poweranimals]

Well this is an interesting take.

 

 

[Mulder]

"THE MCU IS DEAD!" being said before we've gotten any reviews or any true box office data (When what we have are really good pre-sales) is the epitome of BOT.

[GOGODanca]

Critics and audiences have been in lockstep from start of phase 4

 

Eternal, DS2 and Thor 4 all had mediocre reception from both 

 

NWH,Shang-Chi and BP2 all had good to really good reception from both

 

If critics are mixed on Ant Man 3 then it's very likely that fans will be to, mcu doesn't have a big history of critics duds let alone critical duds that audiences loved like say Venom 1 for Sony

Edited February 7, 2023 by GOGODanca

[interiorgatordecorator]

35 minutes ago, poweranimals said:

Well this is an interesting take.

 

 

 

how the heck did they manage to find the one reaction which highlights Rudd's performance of all things

Edited February 7, 2023 by interiorgatordecorator

[ChipDerby]

I think Marvel has been leaning too hard in the "connected universe" direction lately. Yes, their first few phases were connected, but they all had a sense of "oh I can watch this and it is mostly standalone minus a few things" and it seems to have become "hardly any of this makes sense without seeing x y or z, or this will be finished with a b or c"

[Mr Roark]

MCU films will keep on making good money and there are still F4 and X-Men to be introduced.

 

 

[poweranimals]

9 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I think Marvel has been leaning too hard in the "connected universe" direction lately. Yes, their first few phases were connected, but they all had a sense of "oh I can watch this and it is mostly standalone minus a few things" and it seems to have become "hardly any of this makes sense without seeing x y or z, or this will be finished with a b or c"

Weird. One of the biggest complaints I've seen about Phase 4 has been "Omg! How does it connect to the grander plan of the MCU?!"

[interiorgatordecorator]

20 minutes ago, poweranimals said:

Weird. One of the biggest complaints I've seen about Phase 4 has been "Omg! How does it connect to the grander plan of the MCU?!"

 

I suppose thats what happens when the movies are bad, if the movie is bad you atleast want it to be relevant to the grander narrative and thus not a waste of time; make well received movies and no one will care about it being self contained or the opposite

 

however its not difficult to imagine how going for too much interconnectedness could itself be detrimental to a movies quality, so its not that straightforward

Edited February 7, 2023 by interiorgatordecorator

[Verrows]

3 minutes ago, interiorgatordecorator said:

 

I suppose thats what happens when the movies are bad, if the movie is bad you atleast want it to be relevant to the grander narrative and thus not a waste of time; make well received movies and no one will care about it being self contained or the opposite

This seems pretty bang on.

[exomassey]

5 minutes ago, interiorgatordecorator said:

 

I suppose thats what happens when the movies are bad, if the movie is bad you atleast want it to be relevant to the grander narrative and thus not a waste of time; make well received movies and no one will care about it being self contained or the opposite

Very true.

 

Since Endgame, Marvel movies have just forgotten how to be a good, fun time at the movies. Everything is so rushed and half baked, it’s like they just don’t give a shit lol. Real lack of desire.

[TwoMisfits]

I feel like you can have a "both" reaction.

 

Avengers Phase 1 was simple - you knew you were introducing 4 main characters and they'd be the Avengers main team (with SHIELD add ons) - simple, easy, and a big, big bad gets named at the end while a stone gets fought over.

 

Phase 2 was still pretty easy b/c you got sequels of 3 of those 4, introducing a new hero in each one, and you introduced a single new team (Guardians) with another grand finale...and then the random Ant Movie finish.  Still very doable.  Still building to single big bad and stone gathering.

 

Phase 3 got big and epic, and goes nuts, but now everyone is so invested b/c the finale is coming.  Tons of new movies, new characters, sequels, zaniness, craziness...and the big 2 parter finishing it up (with a folllow on Spidey).  Phew.

 

Phase 4 was still so big and all over, but it didn't culminate to anything as you tried to track so many new and old characters and teams, but they didn't ever come together - Wanda, Loki, Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Moonknight, Ms. Marvel, She Hulk, The Eternals, Shang Chi, Wakanda, Thor, Dr Strange, Spidey, Black Widow, etc, etc, etc.  Most of the movies weren't on par with any of the previous phases' quality.  Now, it seems like all that work was for nothing as in "what was the point."

 

And now Phase 5 - we haven't paired anything down.  We can't seem to tell when the D+ matters or when it gets ignored or when it assumes you know stuff, but only certain stuff (MoM was such a huge issue for this one in Phase 4, and Ant Man may be for Phase 5 if Scott is on point)...and we're supposed to get EVEN MORE new characters and teams and stuff, but at least we finally have 1 villain to build to, but he has like 1000 versions of himself.

 

If I had to diagnose post Phase 3 Marvel malaise, it was the inability of Disney to say no to immediate and midterm huge sums of money.  If I had written Phase 4, it would have had a much more similar concept to Phase 1 - introduce a few folks who will matter to a small arc, make their movies, and make their arc the closing "team" arc.  Grow Phase 5 from there and then have Phase 6 as a big blow out.  Maybe it would have made sense to build (with Spidey, since you had him) to a Young Avengers arc with a doable problem for them.  Maybe it would have made sense to build to "one last team up" with the old crew bringing in a few new crew.  Maybe it would have made sense to build a 4a and 4b for Earth and space and build a group of heroes to conquer each one.  I don't know.  I don't make the big decisions, but the decisions made for Phase 4 were bad ones.

 

Phase 4 has brought malaise to a large part of the fan base who are now in the "wait for D+" category.  Can they be replaced?  Sure.  But it always takes more to bring a customer in than to keep one.  And Phase 4 has started the slow, slow drip of losing them...

 

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[Brainbug]

5 hours ago, WittyUsername said:

If the MCU falls, that should mean that superhero movies in general don’t have much of a future. I don’t see what could possibly take its place. 

 

More dinosaur movies!

[SpiderByte]

45 minutes ago, ChipDerby said:

I think Marvel has been leaning too hard in the "connected universe" direction lately. Yes, their first few phases were connected, but they all had a sense of "oh I can watch this and it is mostly standalone minus a few things" and it seems to have become "hardly any of this makes sense without seeing x y or z, or this will be finished with a b or c"

People last year were complaining about the exact opposite issue like with Moon Knight having no connection at all. Thor too.

Edited February 7, 2023 by SpiderByte