Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania | February 17, 2023 | Competing with Eternals on RT, Competing with BvS on box office legs

[THUNDER BIRD]

20 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Thank you. It is nuts that people were calling Multiverse of Madness as underperforming when it made 900 million, which is much much more than the first one.

Imagine thinking Multiverse Madness was some normal Dr Strange sequel.

[SpiderByte]

Just now, THUNDER BIRD said:

Imagine thinking Multiverse Madness was some normal Dr Strange sequel.

Explain how it is not a sequel.

[THUNDER BIRD]

Just now, SpiderByte said:

I'd like you to explain how that's the case?

Same way how majority of Oscar nominated movies are basically floos and disasters.

 

Basically Audience Reception is different from Awards Shows. 

[THUNDER BIRD]

Just now, SpiderByte said:

Explain how it is not a sequel.

You lack reading comprehension or what? 

 

Read what i wrote and then think, think well and understand what i wrote.

[ThomasNicole]

I think some of you take things too literally when some said MCU is in trouble despite 800-900M grossers. 

 

Yes, the box office is steady and big, but that's only one data and this alone doesn't proof things are in great shape. What we're looking here is how these movies on Phase 4 are having pretty bad legs and it's still having good numbers because they open too big, because people still have good will with the brand, but they're getting meh to bad WOM, bad legs which leads to lower grosses than it could get. 

 

This happened with 4 out of 7 movies on Phase 4, it is obviously something that can't keep happening or the good will i mentioned will start to fade. 

 

If Quantumania ended up having mixed reviews and meh WOM, it will be the fifth time in a span of less than 2 years (and i'm not even counting the TV shows which mostly also have meh to bad WOM). 

 

I do think the "MCU is dead" statements are absurd, but it is in a big trouble thinking in the long term which is the goal with an cinematic universe, deny this isn't less absurd than saying it's dead, they need to fix their quality control and i think fans should be very vocal about this. 

[Nikostar]

35 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Winning awards does not count as part of the movies reception for some reason now?

Not always but WF got high audience with an A Cinamascore and 95 RT audience scores an five Oscar nods including a soon to be marvel history making win. Not only did audience like it but the fact that the industry did is just even better. The Industry don't like Marvel films unless is serious. WF was a win for Phase 4.

[Eric the Minion]

Feel like things are getting a little too tense in terms of the whole "is Marvel in danger" discourse, so I'm just locking things for a few minutes before it gets worse and people can take some deep breaths. I know some are likely upset about this, but it's for everybody's good.

[Eric the Minion]

Moderation

 

Okay, we are back in business. And frankly, I think we're done with this whole "Is Marvel dying/dead" discourse here in this thread. It is very obvious that whatever side of the coin you're on, none of you guys will agree with each other. It's very frustrating having to see people ready to pounce on Marvel, desperate to see it bomb, while also seeing people refuse to hear any criticism over their favorite franchise fight back and forth when you know nobody's minds will be changed. It's not prodcutive and everybody here is sick of it.

 

So please talk about Ant-Man 3 and nothing else. And if you feel that you have to dog on or champion the MCU as a whole and its "missteps" (you really don't need to), we have this thread right here in the Marvel Media Club for you to argue in. Although I do suggest you guys should just ignore each other and move on. It's really not that hard.

 

 

[keysersoze123]

As I posted yesterday, MCU day 1 presales are so strong and way beyond any other franchise, they are on their own league for now whether you like the movie or not. Ant-man 3 had a blockbuster start as well. 

[John Marston]

The writers of the new Avengers movies are the writers of this and MoM. Lol

[Valonqar]

2 hours ago, exomassey said:

It’s a bit weird to say films that made over 800m aren’t hits.

 

Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, Wakanda Forever were considered disappointments to some but they are still big hits even if they didn’t breakout/cross a billion.

 

 

 

MoM is in different position than L&T and WF. MoM increased from the first a lot. It's an undisputed hit. It only disappointed because the teaser bookended NWH so fans expected similarly high boxoffice. But realistically speaking, it did the job which is expand the base. 

 

L&T increased a little dom and OS (when you remove C and R from Ragnarok) but it went up. Not enough but it didn't drop.

 

BPWF flat out dropped, there's no way around it. Like I said in another post, AWOW dropped from Avatar but it passed the milestone it was supposed to pass (2B) so it's a smash hit. BPWF won't even make 900M with C. Remember, MoM made almost 1B without C even though it was considered a weaker franchise. BPWF outgrossed MoM dom thanks to holidays but MoM clobbered BPWF OS. BP is weak OS. This is the second movie in the franchise that has bad dom/OS ratio in favor of dom and I don't see that change in the future. It simply isn't interesting to OS unlike some other MCU IPs that are weaker dom. 

 

Point being, these movies were supposed to make 1B w/o C and R and they didn't. TMG and AWOW doing so (remove C from AWOW and it'll still be over 2B) shows that a movie can do it. These 3 just weren't special enough and L&T and BPWF didn't come even close. 

[SpiderByte]

2 hours ago, ThomasNicole said:

and i'm not even counting the TV shows which mostly also have meh to bad WOM). 

Ms Marvel is the best reviewed release of the entire MCU.

[XXR & Friends]

Moderation 

 

While Ant-Man is a part of the MCU, this isn’t the MCU thread. Let’s get the conversation back on to AMQ and off of the MCU at large. If you need to, you can discuss that in the Disney Thread.

[Verrows]

3 hours ago, ThomasNicole said:

I think some of you take things too literally when some said MCU is in trouble despite 800-900M grossers. 

 

Yes, the box office is steady and big, but that's only one data and this alone doesn't proof things are in great shape. What we're looking here is how these movies on Phase 4 are having pretty bad legs and it's still having good numbers because they open too big, because people still have good will with the brand, but they're getting meh to bad WOM, bad legs which leads to lower grosses than it could get. 

 

This happened with 4 out of 7 movies on Phase 4, it is obviously something that can't keep happening or the good will i mentioned will start to fade. 

 

If Quantumania ended up having mixed reviews and meh WOM, it will be the fifth time in a span of less than 2 years (and i'm not even counting the TV shows which mostly also have meh to bad WOM). 

 

I do think the "MCU is dead" statements are absurd, but it is in a big trouble thinking in the long term which is the goal with an cinematic universe, deny this isn't less absurd than saying it's dead, they need to fix their quality control and i think fans should be very vocal about this. 

Very fair. I agree here 100%.

 

Edit: just read Eric and XXR's posts. Moving on....

Edited February 8, 2023 by Verrows

[exomassey]

If this movie does go rotten and has this bad word of mouth you speak of, it will be interesting to see how Marvel react or if they even care.

 

This is the introduction of their new big bad and the start of the next big story, if people don’t embrace it like they did Thanos and the Infinity Stones then what’s the point?

[Verrows]

Just now, exomassey said:

If this movie does go rotten and has this bad word of mouth you speak of, it will be interesting to see how Marvel react or if they even care.

 

This is the introduction of their new big bad and the start of the next big story, if people don’t embrace it like they did Thanos and the Infinity Stones then what’s the point?

Honestly, I think they'll just march on ahead with what they're planning in the big picture. It sounds like most, if not all, the critiques are about the craftsmanship of the film. Whereas there are pretty much only raves about Kang, whose character serves to move the whole Multiverse Saga plot forward. So, mission accomplished for Feige and Co in that sense.

 

Of course they'll do some reflecting if this is a true stinker though. I think the biggest thing Marvel Studios needs to do is raise the bar for their writers and directors. Sometimes they nail it but other times they go bargain bin and the result inevitably feels bargain bin. We talk about quality control on these movies but I think the quality control has to start before these movies even hit production.

[SpiderByte]

25 minutes ago, exomassey said:

If this movie does go rotten and has this bad word of mouth you speak of, it will be interesting to see how Marvel react or if they even care.

Eternals response clearly hasn't changed their plans for that series, as they've stated multiple times those characters are coming back and cast members have hinted if not outright stated there's a sequel happening.

[TwoMisfits]

40 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

Eternals response clearly hasn't changed their plans for that series, as they've stated multiple times those characters are coming back and cast members have hinted if not outright stated there's a sequel happening.

 

Unlike Ant-man, which should be theatrical (see I linked the movie), Eternals should have always been a D+ series.  It could have had like 3 seasons/24 episodes just to tell all the backstory and lore of the 1st movie before it ever got to present day Phase 4 MCU and then the planned sequel probably could have filled up another 3 series as "what else happened in Phase 4" as we moved to Phase 5.

 

It's one of those "not in Phase 4", but "what else happened in Phase 1-3" groups that would have been great to make solely D+.  In fact, the more I think of D+ vs movies MCU, the more I think D+ should have been for those "filler" moments and teams as we keep progressing, which could be Easter egged in some movie or cameoed in down the line, where you don't really NEED to have seen any of it, but you're happier for the backstory.  1st, it could have been filler in Phase 1-3, then it could have been filler for the 5 year gap, and tell all those stories.  Not needed to know for current movie watching, but fun for fans who want to know more...

 

The Coulson shorts I just watched got me into that thinking...

 

And swinging back to Ant Man again, it's why I wouldn't have introduced Kang in Loki (and not just introduced, but given him a pretty decent arc)...now, there are expectations into this movie by uber-fans, while GA are clueless

Edited February 8, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[WittyUsername]

For what it’s worth, Markus and McFeely wrote TDW. 

[TheFlatLannister]

1 hour ago, exomassey said:

If this movie does go rotten and has this bad word of mouth you speak of, it will be interesting to see how Marvel react or if they even care.

 

This is the introduction of their new big bad and the start of the next big story, if people don’t embrace it like they did Thanos and the Infinity Stones then what’s the point?

The problem seems to be with the movie itself, not Kang. Mostly everyone has been praising Jonathan's performance