The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[ZattMurdock]

58 minutes ago, DInky said:

I legitimately felt like I was coming home from a funeral and a wake when i was walking out of the theater. Didn't help that they added to the overall sense of misery by killing Queen Ramonda as well.

The film starts with T’Challa’s funeral due to an invisible enemy that not even Wakanda’s and Earth’s greatest genius could find a cure for and ends with Shuri learning the lesson that her mother taught him about once you let go of your grief and anger, you can once again find peace and feel your loved ones. Ramonda had to die to develop Shuri’s arc for the same reason that King T’Chaka had to die. The Black Panther’s pathos it’s about tragedy, legacy and learning how to become a leader to your people. It’s interesting that Shuri diverges on that last part. While I think it’s derailing the thread, I strongly disagree that T’Challa needed to be recast. T’Challa is dead. And while Wakanda Forever is a hard film to watch, it’s one of the best MCU films, the cast did everything possible to step in and the void that is T’Challa not being there is obviously felt, both by the people that worked with him and treated him as family and the whole world that learned to love him as well. A new T’Challa will rise, eventually. That he is the son of T’Challa makes his inevitable arrival even more special as far as I’m concerned.

 

50 minutes ago, M37 said:

If Captain Marvel opened in Ant & Wasp's spot in summer 2018, rather than just weeks before Endgame, does it make a similar $215M+ DOM & ~$620M WW? I don't think that's a unrealistic sliding doors expectation (presuming one believes they are both Tier 3 characters in the MCU)

 

AMWQ dropped from that total to $476M WW, despite the theatrical introduction of Kang that boosted the fan interest/OW significantly (and terrible quality that produced disastrous legs) ... and Marvels has no such big storyline hook. Plus a fair amount of "baggage" - real or imagined (as in I don't want to debate it) - that appears to be pulling it down further than a similar ~$200M DOM & $400-$500M WW baseline expectation that I think many had

 

I just don't think it can be overstated how the Infinity Stone storyline, constantly building towards an Endgame climax, raised the floor on even the lowest level of solo films, that the more rudderless/shotgunning direction post-Endgame no longer is able to.

Not disagreeing with you, but other than The Avengers, Thor: The Dark World and Guardians of the Galaxy, all the other MCU films had a very loose connective tissue to the Infinity Saga that only became apparent with Infinity War and Endgame. 
 

I think that creating several theories about the whys and hows kind of a useless exercise, because a lot of the MCU’s criticisms are cyclical for those following long enough. The beauty of the MCU is that not even the most savvy and knowledgeable of the comic book fans truly know where it is going and end up surprised because they aren’t slavish to the source material, but just like I could kinda see it where they were going with the Infinity Saga with each passing film, a lot of people did not. Very few is talked about the actual The Marvels film here, but it’s clear with the latest promo that The Marvels is touching subplots that actually lead to Secret Wars:

 

I think this film gambled a lot on Brie, Teyonah and Iman promoting the shit out of the film, and that unfortunately for a situation beyond the artists control wasn’t possible so far. I do think that it’s possible that they are holding this one close to their chest because the spoilers are sensitive to the MCU’s future, and that there was still some  hope that the strike could be resolved before the film’s release. I’ve watched DaCosta’s Candyman over the weekend instead of going over trailers and promos and she is clearly a talented director. I feel like people trashed this film so much for months years that might have a whiplash effect and actually be well received. Unlike Wakanda Forever, a film like this might be exactly what the MCU needs right now. Whatever it is, we’ll know soon enough.

Edited November 1, 2023 by ZattMurdock

[Blaze Heatnix]

So, 9 days until the release. Where are Mr Kevin Feige and whoever directed this movie? 

 

Any fan screenings like GOTG 3 had some weeks before the main release? 

 

Are they really lifint a freaking social embargo literally 12 days before the release?

 

It seems they're really setting up this movie to fail, which really seems to be planned. 

[ZeroHour]

8 minutes ago, Blaze Heatnix said:

So, 9 days until the release. Where are Mr Kevin Feige and whoever directed this movie? 

 

Any fan screenings like GOTG 3 had some weeks before the main release? 

 

Are they really lifint a freaking social embargo literally 12 days before the release?

 

It seems they're really setting up this movie to fail, which really seems to be planned. 

Honestly, they must believe that those things are more likely to do harm than help. Disney/Marvel used every tool at their disposal to boost Guardians 3, but they believed they had a winner on their hands. Maybe they're more gun shy after putting out Indy 5 and Elemental too early, but they can see the dire early sales numbers and they don't have much to lose at this point if they think this movie is good. Their response so far has been to refocus the ad campaign on Carol, remind people of Endgame, and now attempt to tie this in to the multiverse stuff to some extent. What they're not doing is getting critical response out sooner or showing this early to fans which...doesn't really bode well.

 

If this film is well received (say around 80% RT and A CS), it will raise a lot of questions about why Disney didn't use those tools to try and save it. They're definitely not confident here.

[Derpity]

Very long and involved article, but looks like Disney knows this is a flop and is throwing the director under the bus. Talking about reshoots and her leaving the film early.

[SpiderByte]

Four weeks isn't unusual by Marvel reshoot standards tbf

[nevermore]

$250M budget according to them.

[Bob Train]

Just now, nevermore said:

$250M budget according to them.

Imagine telling someone in July that the Flash wouldn't be the biggest CBM bomb of the year

 

I have no idea how they could spend $250m on this given it looks like a Disney Channel movie, that has to be money laundering at this point. 

 

 

[Warmaster506]

Bring back Iron Man and make Hulk the fucking Hulk instead of a comedy punching bag. 

[Liiviig 1998]

25 minutes ago, Blaze Heatnix said:

So, 9 days until the release. Where are Mr Kevin Feige and whoever directed this movie? 

 

Any fan screenings like GOTG 3 had some weeks before the main release? 

 

Are they really lifint a freaking social embargo literally 12 days before the release?

 

It seems they're really setting up this movie to fail, which really seems to be planned. 

Social embargo Tuesday

Review embargo Wednesday.

 

Yeah that's fucking weird especially for the social media embargo.

 

No fan screenings .

 

 

They leaving it out to miraculously  live or like the way it looks , to  die miserably on its own.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[keysersoze123]

10 minutes ago, Derpity said:

Very long and involved article, but looks like Disney knows this is a flop and is throwing the director under the bus. Talking about reshoots and her leaving the film early.

Interesting stuff in the article is 250m budget and that June screening in TX had middling reviews. Normally that would have led to further reshoots but there was no time. But they did reedit based on rumors and that is how movie is now shorter than what was originally written. 

[YM!]

Yeah, I’m being more and more convinced the plan is to tough out the rest of the phase and then hard reboot after Secret Wars.

[SpiderByte]

Just now, YM! said:

Yeah, I’m being more and more convinced the plan is to tough out the rest of the phase and then hard reboot after Secret Wars.

Soft, maybe. Hard, no. The big pivot will be the X-Men.

[TwoMisfits]

14 minutes ago, Derpity said:

Very long and involved article, but looks like Disney knows this is a flop and is throwing the director under the bus. Talking about reshoots and her leaving the film early.

 

If that Blade plot was true, no wonder Ali wanted to exit...

[SpiderByte]

3 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

Interesting stuff in the article is 250m budget and that June screening in TX had middling reviews. Normally that would have led to further reshoots but there was no time. But they did reedit based on rumors and that is how movie is now shorter than what was originally written. 

The 250 budget seems just more like ballparking from that one person. But I feel like if they were just leaving it to die like WB did Blue Beetle they wouldn't be pushing the marketing so hard

[Zakiyyah6]

Disney's internal tracking must be horrible because they already have "sources" making excuses for The Marvels.

[ZeroHour]

5 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

Interesting stuff in the article is 250m budget and that June screening in TX had middling reviews. Normally that would have led to further reshoots but there was no time. But they did reedit based on rumors and that is how movie is now shorter than what was originally written. 

Not only no time, but June means no writers because of the strike, so they couldn't do much at that point.

[John Marston]

“Marvel is truly fucked with the whole Kang angle,” says one top dealmaker who has seen the final “Loki” episode. “And they haven’t had an opportunity to rewrite until very recently [because of the WGA strike]. But I don’t see a path to how they move forward with him.” 

 

 

ouch

[WorkingonaName]

Im Sorry Erza

[Giorno]

Feige needs to tell Iger that they need to put a stop to all these tv shows for the time being so that he can focus on just the movies

[TwoMisfits]

3 minutes ago, ZeroHour said:

Not only no time, but June means no writers because of the strike, so they couldn't do much at that point.

 

Yeah, it seems like in June, corporate decided the movie wasn't worth waiting out the strike for...that it would be too much money and time to fix (and it would disrupt too much of the future timeline), so they instead set a team of editors onto the film to try to get a better cut from what they had and delayed to the point they could make a better version...this seems like a very Morbius strategy...hopefully, the movie can be better than that...