The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Arlborn]

On 11/3/2023 at 9:43 AM, Masketta Man said:

Agree with most of that but Kamala, she is easily the best of the legacy characters and way better than the character she took the mantle from, it's just that they screwed the character development and the development of the supporting cast by skipping several arcs of her story and sending her to Pakistan so early.

 

That's the thing I find the saddest about this movie doing badly; Kamala is a lovely character that was well cast and even had well cast side-characters (her family is a delight in the show and already a highlight of the clips for this movie), but now she'll probably be considered mostly damaged goods. Pity.

 

On 11/4/2023 at 6:09 PM, Porthos said:

At the very least: Discussions Stop Being Fun.

 

 

This cannot be overstated enough. You can literally see it happening within this thread. Negativity attracts negativity.

[Hatebox]

1 hour ago, Alexander said:

I think one of the problems is that MCU fans are mostly general audience. They hardly ever read any comic book, they just like MCU because it's popular. I look at places like SHH forum and basically only NWH (mainly because of OGs returning) and Reeves' Batman had any activity there. The rest... Days of those proper fanboys are long gone. That always makes it easier to lose a big % of audience very quickly.

Holy shit that takes me back. Don’t think I’ve been there since the Superman Returns meltdowns. 

[Arlborn]

I was rewatching Captain Marvel this weekend and I’ll say that another cut on the death by a thousand cuts this is suffering, is how Secret Invasion sorta craters the plot of Captain Marvel and makes it feel like it was all for nothing since Fury and Carol come out of it as having failed in their mission started in Captain Marvel to help the Skrulls.

 

This Secret Invasion thing just keeps getting worse, yikes.

 

At least they’re using its failure to revamp their TV side of things, but still, ouch.

 

 

[DInky]

1 minute ago, Arlborn said:

I was rewatching Captain Marvel this weekend and I’ll say that another cut on the death by a thousand cuts this is suffering, is how Secret Invasion sorta craters the plot of Captain Marvel and makes it feel like it was all for nothing since Fury and Carol come out of it as having failed in their mission started in Captain Marvel to help the Skrulls.

 

This Secret Invasion thing just keeps getting worse, yikes.

 

At least they’re using its failure to revamp their TV side of things, but still, ouch.

 

 

 

I rewatched Captain Marvel yesterday and was thinking the exact same thing. Secret Invasion is a really depressing follow-up and ruins the ending of Captain Marvel. I felt the same with Infintiy War undoing the positive ending of Ragnarok. At least Infinity War was good unlike Secret Invasion.

[Sckathian]

55 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

That's more of a Disney problem than Marvel. Disney spends way too much on film, always have. Just look at all Pixar, WDAS, and Star Wars films. Controlling budgets is something they can't do for some reason.

I think theres a location issue. They film where its cheapest (tax breaks) but for their VFX its in a really expensive location for reasons I just cant fathom. I get the arguement with Pixar (creatives are there) but why is Marvel VFX primarily based in Burbank?

 

I know they do outsource as well but their base costs must be substantial - there is also probably a degree of "well it doesnt matter we'll make millions" when it comes to contracts. Are these inexperience writers/directors getting a cheaper contract or something substantial? Are the co-stars in 'The Marvels' getting contracts in line with their star power?

 

This is why D+ shows cost what they do I think, lots of cash to throw around. I think we'll see more pressure downstream to reduce costs.

[John Marston]

You know what this movie feels really similar to with its premise and tone? Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer from 2007!I thought we were supposed to move away from those types of superhero films lol

[SpiderByte]

17 minutes ago, John Marston said:

You know what this movie feels really similar to with its premise and tone? Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer from 2007!I thought we were supposed to move away from those types of superhero films lol

The premise is...not similar at all.

 

 

[Zakiyyah6]

Ms Marvel had some of the most authentic non bigoted Muslim representation that I have ever seen in a Western series. Kamala is a great character and Iman gives an amazing performance so yes I am very sad that she is looking to be apart of two flops in a row. That being said I don't think that people are obligated to see a film or television series that doesn't look interesting to them. The idea that normal people must see films that they aren't interested in and that are sometimes awful, solely for the diversity is just something that I can't agree with.

 

I'm not calling The Marvels awful by the way, it hasn't even been released.

[TommyOliver]

I kind of feel bad for Brie Larson in all of this. She got off on the wrong foot with a section of the audience when she made those comments on "40 year old white dudes" and critics needing to be diversified. Then her movie comes out, makes a billion dollars, but is quite clearly aided by being sandwiched in between the two part ending of the first phase of the MCU. Then she basically gets shelved for years after Endgame and now she gets saddled with two tv level characters. I could understand her wanting to wash her hands of the role of Captain Marvel.

[Torontofan]

5 minutes ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

Ms Marvel had some of the most authentic non bigoted Muslim representation that I have ever seen in a Western series. Kamala is a great character and Iman gives an amazing performance so yes I am very sad that she is looking to be apart of two flops in a row. That being said I don't think that people are obligated to see a film or television series that doesn't look interesting to them. The idea that normal people must see films that they aren't interested in and that are sometimes awful, solely for the diversity is just something that I can't agree with.

 

I'm not calling The Marvels awful by the way, it hasn't even been released.

 

This kind of rhetoric imo backfires in helping diversity in films and seems there is a general backlash towards this idea from audiences. 

 

My logic is diversity in films is best with actual authetnic great performances of minority actors where the focus of their character is not always about their race but is one part of their character. 

 

Its like becoming a meme at this point where you watch a movie or tv show and there be a random black female viking in a tv show and it comes as weird and fake. 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Torontofan

[Zakiyyah6]

2 minutes ago, Torontofan said:

 

This kind of rhetoric imo backfires in helping diversity in films and seems there is a general backlash towards this idea from audiences. 

 

My logic is diversity in films is best with actual authetnic great performances of minority actors where the focus of their character is not always about their race but is one part of their character. 

 

Its like becoming a meme at this point where you watch a movie or tv show and there be a random black female viking in a tv show and it comes as weird and fake. 

 

Don't respond to me again.

[Hypercortical]

43 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

The premise is...not similar at all.

 

 

 

Man, I hate that variety hit piece. DaCosta deserves better

[Valonqar]

2 hours ago, Kon said:

 

I don't really agree that superheroes as IP couldn't be directed towards women. However, I agree they don't know how to appeal women in the superhero genre.

 

The superhero movie with the biggest female audience seems to be Aquaman. And that was likely unintentional.

 

 

Honestly, I don't think the concept of "strong female" protagonist is so popular between women. I think it was more popular in the past when that was uncommon.

 

Also, I've noticed a lot of action stories with big female audience tend to have male protagonists.

 

I think that the problem is belief that Yas Queen Slay meme is real. It's not. There's a discrepancy between what women think is a strong character (translation: pretty much what Gloria said in Barbie - no need to be an unattainable role model but someone normal not a fuckin President) and what Hollywood thinks they should think it is. It isn't even changing the base audience by giving them what they like/want but trying to program them to like/want something they don't. On the matter of Aquaman, there's a misconception that movies for women shouldn't have men or romance or anything where they can co-exist. But studies showed that women prefer mixed male-female casts to all one or all the other. Also, everyone likes eye candy. Momoa is an eye candy. Hollywood will never re-program that brain wire. 

3 hours ago, Torontofan said:

I never understand why studios who sell movies based on nostalgia and get all.time hits like A force Awakens and No way Home... then be like "fuck this audience let's try to get people totally not interested in our films."

 

Mcu could make money till the end of time appealing to nostalgia and fanboys but instead seems determined to make films.and TV shows for an audience that does not seem that interested. 

 

what I said above, an attempt to re-program that audience with the most superficial changes. Rambo but played by size 0 actress. That's gonna put Bridgerton crowd's butts in seats right? right?

[Valencia]

41 minutes ago, TommyOliver said:

I kind of feel bad for Brie Larson in all of this. She got off on the wrong foot with a section of the audience when she made those comments on "40 year old white dudes" and critics needing to be diversified. Then her movie comes out, makes a billion dollars, but is quite clearly aided by being sandwiched in between the two part ending of the first phase of the MCU. Then she basically gets shelved for years after Endgame and now she gets saddled with two tv level characters. I could understand her wanting to wash her hands of the role of Captain Marvel.

She can dry her tears with the tens of millions she made for 2 movies and 5 minutes of screen time in Endgame.

 

Feel bad for the 2 D+ extras that are getting killed off screen in the next movie/show or whatever.

[Sckathian]

38 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

 

Man, I hate that variety hit piece. DaCosta deserves better

The variety piece for me felt like someone in Marvel trying to shift the blame around but at the same time the fact the film was getting these lengthy delays is not a great look for the director.

EDIT: Especially if the studio knew she couldnt help hands on.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Sckathian

[Eric is Quiet]

Moderation

 

We're done with this whole "icky girls shouldn't be in 'male' IPs". There's a lot of weird sexist nonsense going on here with some posters and how it's bad to make your male-dominant projects more appealing to a wider audience, and it's sickening. Please move on to something else and quit this sexist garbage. Thank you.

[Torontofan]

4 minutes ago, Eric Presley said:

Moderation

 

We're done with this whole "icky girls shouldn't be in 'male' IPs". There's a lot of weird sexist nonsense going on here with some posters and how it's bad to make your male-dominant projects more appealing to a wider audience, and it's sickening. Please move on to something else and quit this sexist garbage. Thank you.

 

I think the arguement is more they doing a poor job in appealing to a wider audience then sexism. 

[Zakiyyah6]

Nvm

Edited November 6, 2023 by Zakiyyah6

[eddyxx]

7 hours ago, grey ghost said:

 

 

The Flash, Ant-Man 3 , Blue Beetle and what else?

 

Shazam 2 is such a forgettable movie.

[Issac Newton]