Oppenheimer (2023)

[redfirebird2008]

12 minutes ago, Maggie said:

Nolan's MASTERPIECE. So absorbing, so thrilling, so freakin good. I was in awe. It deserves to win Best Picture. I don't know how Nolan misses Best Director. 

 

I think hell freezes over before he ever wins Best Picture or Best Director. 

[Maggie]

9 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

I think hell freezes over before he ever wins Best Picture or Best Director. 

Lesser movies have won. They can't always snub Nolan. If he doesn't win this year there won't be greater injustice.

[redfirebird2008]

1 minute ago, Maggie said:

Lesser movies have won. They can't always snub Nolan. If he doesn't win this year there won't be greater injustice.

 

Better directors have been snubbed their entire careers, Hitchcock and Kubrick being the most high profile examples. At least they finally gave Nolan a nomination with Dunkirk. Maybe he can get one for Oppenheimer, but we'll see about that. 

[Avatree]

2 hours ago, excel1 said:

It remains a simple fact that someone was going to discovering the technology sooner or later and the best hands were always going to be Americans. I feel like this is a simple 'end of the day' reality. Not saying Hiroshima or Nagasaki were or were not justified, it is just a good thing for all of humanity that USA was in front of it as opposed to playing catch up to someone else. Not every country has leadership that eventually answers to the general public one way or another.

Average American brain

[LonePirate]

The speech Oppenheimer gives to the crowd in the gym at Los Alamos is probably the best scene from any Nolan movie ever. That scene sent more chills down my spine than the actual Trinity Test scene. The whole movie is a masterpiece but that scene will haunt you for a very long time.

[Derpity]

3 hours ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

I think hell freezes over before he ever wins Best Picture or Best Director. 

I guess the forecast for next March is looking very cold down there.

[keysersoze123]

This will be the frontrunner for sure. Scorsese has had his run. This is topical and Nolan has crafted a masterpiece. What a finish as well. I love the way he ends his movies and he definitely ended it on a high. Cillian was the MVP and I am expecting him to win it next year. Downey will be nominated and will benefit from the huge buzz from the movie overall. I dont see any other nomination. Blunt had 1 good scene in the movie. Pugh was barely there. At least Excel has to be happy that Josh Hartnett had a solid role. I am not convinced he stood out that much. Rest of the cast added heft even without being spectacular themselves(including Damon). Best among the rest would be Conti as Einstein and Branaugh as Bohr. It will be nominated for all the technicals for sure. Screenplay, Cinematography, Editing, Sound and Visual effects.

[excel1]

2 nitpicks. 

 

1. Everything with the Lewis Strauss/ "Oppenheimer is a national security threat" is extremely undeveloped. Totally understand them wanting to show what happened to Oppenheimer but the Lewis Stauss-driven Kangaroo court and later senate hearing had no relevancy to the film. Just a shockingly underdeveloped subplot that is given far too much time. 

• RDJ's entire motivation to takedown Oppenheimer is a 2 second isotope quip? Strauss clearly wasn't humiliated, he was extremely full of himself. This bit just doesn't have anything close to the impact needed.
• RDJ's entire rationale for thinking the scientists turned against him was the 2 second Op-Einstein conversation? WTF? Just 'blink and you miss it'.

Even if they were true in reality, they are extraordinarily weak justifications within the film. Strauss's passionate soliloquy at the end feels simply meaningless because the dynamic between the 2 men is so badly developed. They are painted as rivals but have spent like 2 minutes together on screen out of the previous 2 hours and 45 minutes. And icing on the cake is Rami Malek is in the film for 2 seconds before his final scene. They acted as if Lawrence came out to back him up, someone with credibility who the audience knows and likes. But it is a total and complete stranger telling us these random sentences. So for me, the final 30 minutes drags horrifically. The kangaroo court in particular just feels ridiculous in its entirety. 

 

They should have found a way for the film to end soon after he meets with Truman. That was a great scene. Had the film ditched the Strauss angle and opened with a look at "How did the Father of the atomic bomb become outspoken against them?" and then followed his journey from beginning to end, would be more compelling. Could still end with the Einstein convo, but would have been much tighter film. 

 

2. What is the point of Florence Pugh here? Oppenheimer learns or applies absolutely nothing from his time with her. He is upset briefly when she dies but then instantly is fine again. I get that they were setting up "communist" ties but she was an extra layer, Kitty and his brother being communists would have been more than sufficient. She was under developed. 

 

That said, everything from young Oppenheimer through his meeting with Truman is fucking perfect. Murphy and Blunt are both excellent. I do think Matt Damon felt a bit out of league trying to play some tough General, someone more akin to Eric Bana or Sam Elliott would have brought a better presence here. David Krumholtz and Josh Hartnett are the 2 clear standouts on the supporting side, bring very different and needed energy to the group and both of these guys should get more work after this. Krumholtz has a very likable, down to Earth vibe to him and really sold his anti-use scenes well. Hartnett nails upbeat, all American energy and his one dramatic bit is flawless. Safdi, Brannah, and Conti bring some much need gravitas too. As everyone else notes, production values are perfect with music, sound, and cinematography. Editing is fantastic for the first 150 minutes. Also has numerous classic Nolan quips which earn numerous chuckles. 

 

All in all, the film as it is for me is a 7/10. Had they scrapped the Strauss angle and spent more time the surrounding effects of the war and ended it shortly after the Truman scene, this would be a 10/10 'one of best film ever' type. 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by excel1

[excel1]

Open the film with his security clearance being revoked and the reaction to the Father of the atomic bombs fall from grace, then flash back to how we got here. Keep everything from beginning to Los Alamos as-is but find a reason to give a shit about Florence Pugh and give us a bigger explosion. The build up is flawless but then we see a basic movie explosion that we have seen 100x before. After Trinity Test, show a bit more about Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Leave him seriously conflicted. He meets with Truman and fully understand his role, commits to disarmament. It ends with him losing his clearance, but he is less concerned. Final scene is exactly as it is here. That is a 10/10 film.

[excel1]

3 hours ago, Avatree said:

Average American brain

 

and?

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

 

A mistake, or a representation of Oppenheimer's fractured mind at that moment in a nonlinear narrative? He is in a nightmare-like state during that scene, but it's probably a continuity goof.

 

 

The young woman whose face melts off in that scene is played by Nolan's daughter Murph Flora.

 

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/christoper-nolan-daughter-oppenheimer-young-girl-nuclear-explosion-1235671599/

Edited July 23, 2023 by BoxOfficeFangrl

[Hildagarde25]

Loved it. The editing for the first 15 or so mins was a little too choppy for me, but it settled as time went on (or I got used to the style). The last hour with the two contrasting hearings might have been my favorite. I love how the movie highlights how we lift up people then drag them down (that final convo w/ Einstein is chef's kiss). Also: "They need us." "Until they don't." True then and now. I thought the hearings further highlighted the shady tactics often used to destroy someone (along w/ the legal runarounds that make it possible). The political maneuverings in the movie remain relevant today, as is the message about the complex nature of science and the moral responsibilities we have on how we use it (for nuclear weapons/war, but this even connects to our issues with AI).  

 

It's a political thriller about morality, science, war, and the intersection of egos, pettiness, and politics. It's also a story about who has control (or when we think we have control but actually only have the illusion of it). 

 

I've read Oppenheimer's biography. A lot is crammed into the movie, which means some stuff is underdeveloped. Jean and Kitty Oppenheimer don't get the space they deserve (especially Kitty). Oppie's early years get somewhat short-changed. As there's already other movies/TV shows/books about the Manhattan Project, I didn't want this to be the focus here, so less about the bomb and its construction was fine with me. 

 

The cast was excellent, especially Cillian Murphy and RDJ. Blunt was good, but again she didn't have much to work with. Hope this also gets a Best Pic nom. I wanted a biographical story and a political story. Got what I wanted and was happy. 

[Hildagarde25]

33 minutes ago, BoxOfficeFangrl said:

 

A mistake, or a representation of Oppenheimer's fractured mind at that moment in a nonlinear narrative? He is kind of in a dreamlike state in that scene but it's probably a continuity goof.

 

The young woman whose face melts off in that scene is played by Nolan's daughter Murph Flora.

 

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/christoper-nolan-daughter-oppenheimer-young-girl-nuclear-explosion-1235671599/

 

I will say, as much as I loved the movie, there were a couple of weird minor "mistakes" that surprised me. Nils Bohr's accent is wrong. I think they messed up Kitty's age and timeline when she recounts her history to Robert (need to re-watch to be sure). Murphy's "Dutch" was bizarre and butchered in the lecture scene. High-level inaccuracies for dramatic purposes I can sometimes accept, but the small stuff kind of irkes me. 

 

However, I was an intern for a TV network, and one part of my job was to go through early takes and note all the mistakes (minor and large) on some of the shows. I found so many mistakes, but I felt half the time they didn't care. "Too expensive to reshoot" or "He looks hot in the version we have. That's what matters." I'm not saying it's like that for films or even other networks, but I see how small stuff slips by if the people in charge don't think it's important to the overall story. It's also hard to catch everything when you go through something that hours long and you have to pay attention to so many elements. 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Hildagarde25

[excel1]

The efforts to make show Kitty Oppenheimer as an alcoholic could have used a lesson in realistic subtle. She really doesn't have much screen time and half her lines being "where are the martinis?" or when she's chilling randomly holding the martini glass, kinda funny how obvious they made it.

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

6 hours ago, Hildagarde25 said:

 

I will say, as much as I loved the movie, there were a couple of weird minor "mistakes" that surprised me. Nils Bohr's accent is wrong. I think they messed up Kitty's age and timeline when she recounts her history to Robert (need to re-watch to be sure). Murphy's "Dutch" was bizarre and butchered in the lecture scene. High-level inaccuracies for dramatic purposes I can sometimes accept, but the small stuff kind of irkes me. 

 

However, I was an intern for a TV network, and one part of my job was to go through early takes and note all the mistakes (minor and large) on some of the shows. I found so many mistakes, but I felt half the time they didn't care. "Too expensive to reshoot" or "He looks hot in the version we have. That's what matters." I'm not saying it's like that for films or even other networks, but I see how small stuff slips by if the people in charge don't think it's important to the overall story. It's also hard to catch everything when you go through something that hours long and you have to pay attention to so many elements. 

I saw some tweets complaining Robert's Dutch was actually German? That would be a pretty massive error if true, but maybe they were just being mean about his accent.

Edited July 23, 2023 by BoxOfficeFangrl

[hasanahmad]

The flags is what you get when you finish filming the movie in 57 days . Nolan moves in breakneck speed. No work politics , no bullcrap , just work , low number of takes , no reshoots

 

this is why studios give him an unlimited budget 

[redfirebird2008]

8 minutes ago, hasanahmad said:

The flags is what you get when you finish filming the movie in 57 days . Nolan moves in breakneck speed. No work politics , no bullcrap , just work , low number of takes , no reshoots

 

this is why studios give him an unlimited budget 

Not unlimited budget, but a good enough budget to make a high quality movie. They know he won’t abuse the budget like we see with many other projects. You can do some great stuff with $100M. It’s crazy how many movies now cost over $200M these days. 

[keysersoze123]

Didn't inception come below the planned budget. Nolan is thorough in his planning and so execution has little hiccups. Plus there are rarely major re writes in his movies. 

[redfirebird2008]

1 minute ago, keysersoze123 said:

Didn't inception come below the planned budget. Nolan is thorough in his planning and so execution has little hiccups. Plus there are rarely major re writes in his movies. 

By all accounts, his wife is a major secret weapon in his operation. She plays a major role in organizing the production. She makes sure that they don’t ever get out of line with the budget. 

[Hildagarde25]

2 hours ago, BoxOfficeFangrl said:

I saw some tweets complaining Robert's Dutch was actually German? That would be a pretty massive error if true, but maybe they were just being mean anout his accent.

 

According to a friend, it's not German, but my friend who speaks Dutch said it wasn't really Dutch, either (she also confirmed w/ her family in the Netherlands - they were baffled when the subtitles said it was Dutch). According to Cillian Murphy, he learned Dutch for the scene, so it appears it was just a very bad/butchered job. I assume due to the breakneck pace of filming, as other people mentioned, it wasn't corrected/reshot for more accuracy.