Oppenheimer (2023)

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

1 hour ago, Hildagarde25 said:

 

According to a friend, it's not German, but my friend who speaks Dutch said it wasn't really Dutch, either (she also confirmed w/ her family in the Netherlands - they were baffled when the subtitles said it was Dutch). According to Cillian Murphy, he learned Dutch for the scene, so it appears it was just a very bad/butchered job. I assume due to the breakneck pace of filming, as other people mentioned, it wasn't corrected/reshot for more accuracy. 

How strange! Watch it turn out to be some dialect of Frisian...

 

 

I've been on a bit of deep dive since watching the movie. There's a brief scene of Robert and Kitty at the White House receiving the Enrico Fermi Award and being honored by President Lyndon Johnson. Kitty notably snubs Edward Teller's handshake. In reality, Oppenheimer was named to get the honor by John F. Kennedy (whose "no" vote helped block the Strauss appointment to the cabinet), but he was assassinated before the ceremony. It ended up happening a week or two later. Jacqueline Kennedy was still living at the White House and met with Oppenheimer to let him know how much her late husband had wanted to bestow the honor.

 

So, there is an alternate universe where this movie could have included both JFK and Jackie as onscreen characters.

Edited July 23, 2023 by BoxOfficeFangrl

[Ozymandias]

Loses some steam in the last hour.

 

Movie - 7/10

Bewbs - 10/10

 

Overall - 8.5/10

[zlazer]

1 hour ago, Ozymandias said:

Loses some steam in the last hour.

 

Movie - 7/10

Bewbs - 10/10

 

Overall - 8.5/10

 

This is one of the things I find so interesting and it kinda splits people, I found the last 45 minutes riveting, the editing, the acting, the pacing, and everything to crescendo to the last line and then the world ending. I was heavy in my seat with dread for 1 minute and could not move. 

[excel1]

30 minutes ago, zlazer said:

 

This is one of the things I find so interesting and it kinda splits people, I found the last 45 minutes riveting, the editing, the acting, the pacing, and everything to crescendo to the last line and then the world ending. I was heavy in my seat with dread for 1 minute and could not move. 

 

Sorry but the prospection and senate hearing absolutely pale in terms of stakes when compared to the epic build out to the bomb. The build up to the bomb detonation is flawless 😍 but the actual explosion just feels small. I wanted to see them seeing the bones in their hands as they supposedly could!

[redfirebird2008]

37 minutes ago, zlazer said:

 

This is one of the things I find so interesting and it kinda splits people, I found the last 45 minutes riveting, the editing, the acting, the pacing, and everything to crescendo to the last line and then the world ending. I was heavy in my seat with dread for 1 minute and could not move. 

 

Yeah, I enjoyed the final 2 hours of the movie a lot more than the first hour of it. But I need to see it again. Perhaps my perspective will change. I was pretty disoriented during the early part of the runtime. Fast pace editing mixed with 2-3 hours of sleep. Not a great combo, lol

[hasanahmad]

I don’t know about you all but I enjoyed the whole 3 hours 

 

the thriller of the first 1.5 hour 

the emotion of the last 1.5 hour 

Edited July 23, 2023 by hasanahmad

[Dominic Draper]

22 hours ago, excel1 said:

2 nitpicks. 

 

1. Everything with the Lewis Strauss/ "Oppenheimer is a national security threat" is extremely undeveloped. Totally understand them wanting to show what happened to Oppenheimer but the Lewis Stauss-driven Kangaroo court and later senate hearing had no relevancy to the film. Just a shockingly underdeveloped subplot that is given far too much time. 

• RDJ's entire motivation to takedown Oppenheimer is a 2 second isotope quip? Strauss clearly wasn't humiliated, he was extremely full of himself. This bit just doesn't have anything close to the impact needed.
• RDJ's entire rationale for thinking the scientists turned against him was the 2 second Op-Einstein conversation? WTF? Just 'blink and you miss it'.

Even if they were true in reality, they are extraordinarily weak justifications within the film. Strauss's passionate soliloquy at the end feels simply meaningless because the dynamic between the 2 men is so badly developed. They are painted as rivals but have spent like 2 minutes together on screen out of the previous 2 hours and 45 minutes. And icing on the cake is Rami Malek is in the film for 2 seconds before his final scene. They acted as if Lawrence came out to back him up, someone with credibility who the audience knows and likes. But it is a total and complete stranger telling us these random sentences. So for me, the final 30 minutes drags horrifically. The kangaroo court in particular just feels ridiculous in its entirety. 

 

They should have found a way for the film to end soon after he meets with Truman. That was a great scene. Had the film ditched the Strauss angle and opened with a look at "How did the Father of the atomic bomb become outspoken against them?" and then followed his journey from beginning to end, would be more compelling. Could still end with the Einstein convo, but would have been much tighter film. 

 

2. What is the point of Florence Pugh here? Oppenheimer learns or applies absolutely nothing from his time with her. He is upset briefly when she dies but then instantly is fine again. I get that they were setting up "communist" ties but she was an extra layer, Kitty and his brother being communists would have been more than sufficient. She was under developed. 

 

That said, everything from young Oppenheimer through his meeting with Truman is fucking perfect. Murphy and Blunt are both excellent. I do think Matt Damon felt a bit out of league trying to play some tough General, someone more akin to Eric Bana or Sam Elliott would have brought a better presence here. David Krumholtz and Josh Hartnett are the 2 clear standouts on the supporting side, bring very different and needed energy to the group and both of these guys should get more work after this. Krumholtz has a very likable, down to Earth vibe to him and really sold his anti-use scenes well. Hartnett nails upbeat, all American energy and his one dramatic bit is flawless. Safdi, Brannah, and Conti bring some much need gravitas too. As everyone else notes, production values are perfect with music, sound, and cinematography. Editing is fantastic for the first 150 minutes. Also has numerous classic Nolan quips which earn numerous chuckles. 

 

All in all, the film as it is for me is a 7/10. Had they scrapped the Strauss angle and spent more time the surrounding effects of the war and ended it shortly after the Truman scene, this would be a 10/10 'one of best film ever' type. 

 

You should do some reading about people with large egos, sociopaths, pychopaths etc

 

They will take even the hint of disrespect real or even imagined and use to it fuel themselves and their ego and to destroy their perceived enemies.

 

That worked perfectly because that is exactly how people like that operate in real life.

 

Even someone to use as an example, like Michael Jordan would make up things in his own head about being disrespected by other athletes to fuel himself and destroy them.

 

It worked because it was seemingly so little. It made it real.

[keysersoze123]

I was also gripped entire time. I did not feel the 3 hours. It went faster than MI7 for me. MI7 had great action scenes and I enjoyed the movie but some of them went too long. Here we did not have any long scene. Constant tension between the characters and I thought quality of acting was so good that things went really fast. I cant wait to see it again for sure. This is not a movie you watch just once. 

[The GOAT]

What was the reason for Strauss' gripe with Oppenheimer?  

Couldn't the last act have been more focused on his guilt of building a weapon of mass destruction? 

 

[keysersoze123]

I wish they also showed J Edgar Hoover. May be get Leo to do a cameo 🙂

[excel1]

9 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

I wish they also showed J Edgar Hoover. May be get Leo to do a cameo 🙂

 

Leo would have been a great Oppenheimer tbh. Murphy is very good but he is very cold too, akin to Bale.

[excel1]

12 minutes ago, The GOAT said:

What was the reason for Strauss' gripe with Oppenheimer?  

Couldn't the last act have been more focused on his guilt of building a weapon of mass destruction? 

 

 

The stupid Isotope joke Oppenheimer make at that hearing is the gripe. Seriously, that's it. 

[excel1]

1 hour ago, Dominic Draper said:

You should do some reading about people with large egos, sociopaths, pychopaths etc

 

They will take even the hint of disrespect real or even imagined and use to it fuel themselves and their ego and to destroy their perceived enemies.

 

That worked perfectly because that is exactly how people like that operate in real life.

 

Even someone to use as an example, like Michael Jordan would make up things in his own head about being disrespected by other athletes to fuel himself and destroy them.

 

It worked because it was seemingly so little. It made it real.

 

I am in no way saying that it doesn't happening reality, it just felt far too small for it be such a large part of this particular film. Nolan should have read that and gone "yea we can take care of this in a montage" instead of making it take up so much time. The 3rd act absolutely should have been tighter focused much more on the guilt angle. Everything about the past from his time as a student through meeting Truman is flawless, as is the final Einstein scene. The angle with RDJ and Jason Clarke just feels weird.

Edited July 24, 2023 by excel1

[excel1]

Enough complaining, some things I loved:

 

the glimpses into his mind of participles exploding was cool, true foresight

 

the build up to the bomb, complete with the betting of months salary and then Damon being like "wait what the world might explode?" and Hartnett & Quaid staring at each like 😮through Safdie running out because he has to see it for himself w/ the music and editing was just *chefs kiss*

 

the workers at Los Alamos being very open about wanting to move on now the war is over

 

the music is just 😍 though I don't know if we ever hear the clear version of theme that we heard in the first trailer. 

 

Honestly had myself convinced it would end with aging Oppenheimer infamous interview where he says he is the destroyer of worlds. Very pleasantly surprised at the neat way they ended it instead.

Edited July 24, 2023 by excel1

[The GOAT]

2 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

The stupid Isotope joke Oppenheimer make at that hearing is the gripe. Seriously, that's it. 

The entire court scene was unnecessary. It actually muddies the water and confuses the narrative that Nolan is trying to tell. 

[excel1]

11 minutes ago, The GOAT said:

The entire court scene was unnecessary. It actually muddies the water and confuses the narrative that Nolan is trying to tell. 

 

This is a great example of something in 5 years, everyone will collectively go "yeah RDJ character wasn't needed at all".

[Dominic Draper]

48 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

I am in no way saying that it doesn't happening reality, it just felt far too small for it be such a large part of this particular film. Nolan should have read that and gone "yea we can take care of this in a montage" instead of making it take up so much time. The 3rd act absolutely should have been tighter focused much more on the guilt angle. Everything about the past from his time as a student through meeting Truman is flawless, as is the final Einstein scene. The angle with RDJ and Jason Clarke just feels weird.

I disagree entirely. It's some of the strongest parts of the film and ties everything together. The entire narrative structure is centered around it. 

 

Throwing it in a montage doesn't really make sense. The last hour is the strongest part of the film and centered everything that came before it.

 

The movie is about his life, and what happened to him after the bomb is made is such a massive part of it.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Dominic Draper

[Dominic Draper]

1 hour ago, keysersoze123 said:

I wish they also showed J Edgar Hoover. May be get Leo to do a cameo 🙂

I don't think anyone needs to be reminded of that film existing tbh. 

[excel1]

21 minutes ago, Dominic Draper said:

I disagree entirely. It's some of the strongest parts of the film and ties everything together. The entire narrative structure is centered around it. 

 

Throwing it in a montage doesn't really make sense. The last hour is the strongest part of the film and centered everything that came before it.

 

The movie is about his life, and what happened to him after the bomb is made is such a massive part of it.

 

to each their own  in my view the assembling the Los Alamos project though the detonation and Truman meeting is flawless filmmaking 

[redfirebird2008]

1 hour ago, excel1 said:

 

This is a great example of something in 5 years, everyone will collectively go "yeah RDJ character wasn't needed at all".

 

I dunno, I enjoyed the final 2/3rds of the movie including Downey's big scenes. The early part of the movie is where I was having some issues keeping up with the fast pace editing. Curious to see how it goes with another viewing.