Block-Busted Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 1 hour ago, AN9815 said: I must say this is the biggest surprise of the year for me by far. I never expected Joker 2 to be struggling to make $40m OW. This is a total disaster. About a month ago I said on the Joker 2 thread that this would easily make +$100m OW and possibly go up to $140m. I had seen the reviews (around 62% on Rottentomatoes at that time) and I thought the worse case scenario was a huge opening followed by terrible legs, like Batman v Superman or Ant-Man and the Wasp: Quantumania. I thought there was real interest in this movie, the first one is very well liked and had incredible legs, specially overseas. Prior to reviews, personally I thought it was going to slightly increase WW like Guardians Vol.1 to Guardians Vol.2 and even with the arguments of "the first one was a cultural phenomenon that cannot be replicated" I thought it would still decrease like Wakanda Forever from first Black Panther or The Last Jedi from The Force Awakens, whose first movies were also cultural phenomenons that couldn't be replicated. This is joining The Marvels and Alice Through the Looking Glass in movies whose predecessors made $1b WW and sequel couldn't even surpass $300m WW, with the difference that Captain Marvel and Alice in Wonderland were not nearly as well received as Joker and that The Marvels and Alice Through the Looking Glass were not as poorly received as Joker 2, for better or worse. This thing is reverse Inside Out 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 1 minute ago, judestar619 said: Todd Phillips will probably still be able to make movies but he'll be kept on a leash with small budgets. A B- cinemascore would've been bad, but to get a CBM to a D implies genuine seething hatred from the audience. That's not something a studio will ever forget. This definitely will harm his career. This is the correct answer. Depp still gets projects after MeToo even though his Disney career is shot but they aren't *those* projects anymore. Phillips will have to scrounge through Lionsgate/A24/Neon stuff, maybe do a bunch of low budget horror. In about 10 years maybe he'll be lucky enough to do Older School with Will Ferrell right at the tail end of his career as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Max007 Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Doubt Zaslov would want anything to do with maestro Phillips for a long time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Just now, Mad Max007 said: Doubt Zaslov would want anything to do with maestro Phillips for a long time. Zaslav won't be there too much longer either at this rate, but yeah, WB management will avoid him like the plague. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmscholar Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 The original "Joker" made 39 Million OD, this new "Joker" is posed to make 20 OD, I don't expect Saturday to do that much gangbusters so this is not coming in too hot. That's wild. Very reminiscence of what we've seen with "Aquaman 2", "Marvels" and "Alice through the looking glass" as far as a sequel coming off a Billion WW grosser end up making significantly less. I haven't seen the film yet but these numbers are shocking thus far. It's literally opening on the same day 5 years later after coming off an award winning blockbuster success. Yes things have changed since the Pandemic. We are in a different world now but I didn't expect this. Now I admit, I did think it would drop like a normal sequel would but nothing like this. We'll see how the weekend plays out worldwide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YM! Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 31 minutes ago, MightyDargon said: The Todd Haynes film wasn't THAT important Bro made one of the best movies last year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Just now, YM! said: Bro made one of the best movies last year. It was direct to streaming and not a major success for Netflix though. I think it was only in the top 10 movies very, very briefly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JWR Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 25 minutes ago, MightyDargon said: Ohhhhh yes it is. If Proyas can't get work a decade after Gods of Egypt, this movie (which was supposed to be WB's flagship for the 2nd half of 2024) absolutely will capsize Phillips. He won't be allowed near a major tentpole blockbuster again (assuming he has any interest), but he'll probably go back to making $20-30M movies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vale9001 Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Todd Philips needed to turn his idea into a Joker thing to get money so in general i don't think hollyood is interested to give him money to make blockbusters. I agree this huge flop can affect his career from this point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torontofan Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 11 hours ago, THUNDER BIRD said: If there's one good thing "Superfans consultency firm" can do is stop Studios from ruining iconic characters. I don't see the need to make a character iconic and then tear them down as being bad and useless. U can look at flaws but give them an epic send off like in Logan 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lestranger Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Joker 2 is a historical collapse. I actually do not think it has much to do with the general CBM discourse. It’s not really connected to DCEU or whatever it’s called now. That being said, the level of failure here is staggering. The hubris of everyone involved is surprising considering the budget of the first and the background of cast/crew. The amount of things that needed to go wrong for this film to end up one of the worst wide release film ever, someone could start writing the book now. The most glaring flaw appears to be a bad script , which is borderline criminal negligence at this level of filmmaking. There is no excuse. Warner Bros should have demanded control over the script. Whatever Todd/Pheonix/Gaga wanted to do with it is up to them. Funding a 200 million movie without a locked script that was highly vetted is absolutely fireable. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper in middle of manhattan without any blueprint, it’s not going to end well and it didn’t. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alexander Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Yeah, Lionsgate or Netflix/Prime projects next for Phillips and Phoenix. But overall they'll be fine. 20, 25, 30 years ago they'd be done but not now, in this market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 17 minutes ago, JWR said: He won't be allowed near a major tentpole blockbuster again (assuming he has any interest), but he'll probably go back to making $20-30M movies. Sure, for Lionsgate and streamers. Not for the actual major studios. And his movies will probably be starring a bunch of has beens and never wases with the expectation they start maybe 7-10 on Netflix Movies for a week before dropping off the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 I hope all those people who bitched about Halloween III Season of the Witch being WORST SEQUAL EVAR are burning in eternal torment right about now for their blasphemy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SchumacherFTW Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 52 minutes ago, MightyDargon said: Nah, there's plenty of directors that actually did shoot their careers to hell. How much did Verbinski actually do after Lone Ranger? 1 movie? Phillips is a lot more disposable than people realize. And he ain't getting that Hogan movie BROTTHHHHERRRR Verbinski went well over budget on Lone Ranger. Phillips got a big budget, but nothing says that he went over, you'd be surprised how much that factors in to things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 (edited) 7 minutes ago, SchumacherFTW said: Verbinski went well over budget on Lone Ranger. Phillips got a big budget, but nothing says that he went over, you'd be surprised how much that factors in to things. Verbinski's Lone Ranger still got 260 mil WW and about 90 mil US. Joker 2 looks like it would be HARD pressed to match that. Yeah "he didn't go over budget" (Apparently) but you do NOT need 190 mil to make a movie with so many courtroom scenes. Lone Ranger had elaborate train/crow/Indian raid stuff and apparently a wendigo subplot that was cut. Joker 2 had none of that. Also keep in mind I'm giving the unadjusted figures for Lone Ranger. Don't know if that means it would be "over 100 mil US dollars" for the US run. If so NO WAY Joker 2 touches it. Edited October 5 by MightyDargon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
judestar619 Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Lestranger said: The most glaring flaw appears to be a bad script , which is borderline criminal negligence at this level of filmmaking. There is no excuse. Warner Bros should have demanded control over the script. Whatever Todd/Pheonix/Gaga wanted to do with it is up to them. Funding a 200 million movie without a locked script that was highly vetted is absolutely fireable. It would be like trying to build a skyscraper in middle of manhattan without any blueprint, it’s not going to end well and it didn’t. I mean the first movie got Phillips a Best Director & Best Adapted Screenplay nomination so I don't know what grounds WB would have to seize all creative control over the sequels script. Todd had no obligation to make this movie either, and likely wouldn't have if he wasn't going to be able to do what he wanted. Though personally, the idea of a Joker sequel always sounded silly to me. The first movie's ending doesn't really lend itself to a clear followup. This whole thing just should not have been made. Edited October 5 by judestar619 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 2 minutes ago, judestar619 said: I mean the first movie got Phillips a Best Director & Best Adapted Screenplay nomination so I don't know what grounds WB would have to seize all creative control over the sequels script. Todd had no obligation to make this movie either, and likely wouldn't have if he wasn't going to be able to do what he wanted. Though personally, the idea of a Joker sequel always sounded silly to me. The first movie's ending doesn't really lend itself to a clear followup. This whole thing just should not have been made. If they could somehow get Joaquin back but NOT Todd Phillips it might have worked. But now we're approaching "tilt the pinball machine without losing the game" level logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firepower Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Phillips will survive, just not at Warner Bros. This assumption that he'll stop making movies or his budgets decrease to 10-20M is insane. He'll come back to 50-60M affair at some other studio, that's about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyDargon Posted October 5 Share Posted October 5 Just now, Firepower said: Phillips will survive, just not at Warner Bros. This assumption that he'll stop making movies or his budgets decrease to 10-20M is insane. He'll come back to 50-60M affair at some other studio, that's about it. Nah, he ain't gettin' 60 mil again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
