Thursday Box Office 5/17/2012 Avengers 6.2 (402M) Dictator 2.8 (7M) DS 1.7 (38M)

[doublejack]

Completely disagree with you. Critics have never been the measuring stick to whether or not a film is good or not. They get paid to watch movies, we pay to see them. I'd rather take a person's opinion over a critics.

Critics are people too!

Critics aren't the be-all and end-all judges of a movie's worth, but discounting their collective view as an important measuring stick is a huge mistake. It's yours to commit, of course, but their input is quit valuable.

We are all entitled to formulate our own views, of course. I don't treat RT scores as gospel... it's just a pretty reliable indicator. More often than not, I agree with the consensus. This post elucidates the point I'm driving at

Critics watch too many movies and over analyze them. Most are simply jaded and are looking for faults. Having said that, if a movie is 85%+ on RT its probably good with little debate, if its less than 30% its almost certainly bad. The problem is when they are ~60-70%.

Exactly. I actually think if a movie scores less than about 45 or 50% then it is almost certainly bad. It isn't even debateable. There will of course be people who still like such films, but they'll be in the minority.

IMDB scores are another great indicator.

Baumer, it seems like you are willing to label any movie that is a box office blockbuster a "good movie" just because it enjoyed success. Is that true? If so I could not disagree more with you. There have been several truly awful films (pick a Transformers... any Transformers) that have absolutely cleaned up. A film making money =/= a good movie.

[ZattMurdock]

I fully agree, The Raimi films are imperfect. As these will be(The costume is already a failure in my eyes). But, I think TASM will get a lot of the things Raimi missed about the character, while forgetting(some on purpose) some of the more classic elements Raimi nailed. I've come to the realization that I may never see the perfect Spider-Man film(But SM2 came damn close).

But, this is not the first time this has happened with a character. Batman 66 ---Batman 89 ----Batman Mask of the Phantasm----Batman Begins(And it still wasn't a perfect adaption). If you think of it this way, Spidey is actually pretty early in this cycle. Maybe the next reboot will combine Raimi/Webb along with elements they both missed.

The costume took me some time to get used to, but since then I've fallen in love with. I understand where they are coming from with the changes, they wanted to make sure that it looked its own thing and most of all, look like something a teenager could really come up with, instead of the perfect shiny costume Raimi's Spider-Man had. Don't you think the costume even looks sort of incomplete? Like he'll keep upgrading it. If this gets to be successful, I'm sure they'll make the costume closer to the source material, even though I'm deeply in love with the design of the spider on his chest. By the way, take a look at this drawing:

I sincerily wouldn't mind Spidey adopting the movie costume at least for sometime in comics. Everytime I see some artist having a bite on drawing the movie costume I find the movie's costume even more bad ass.

[Walt Disney]

If they were guaranteed 800m DOM/2b WW, Sony and Disney would team up for Gnomeo and Juiet and the Smurfs.

True, but that's different than the situation with Spiderman.If I may quote the Sopranos to illustrate:There are 2 bulls standing on top of a hill (an uncle and his nephew). The nephew looks down and sees a bunch of cows down there. The nephew turns to the uncle and says," I'm going to run down this hill and fuck one of those cows"! The uncle replies," why run? Instead lets walk down the hill and fuck them all"!I quoted directly (altho they may have been goats in the actual story told in the show), but you can edit since the quote does contain foul language. i am not sure what the board's policy is on that. Edited May 18, 2012 by The Iron Horse

[ZattMurdock]

The Iron Horse, Arachnid is right. If Disney and Sony discover that it's on their best interest to make these movies together, they will do that. I don't want TASM to fail because they seem to have finally nailed Spider-Man's and Peter Parker's character and the movie looks really good so far. And while I can understand baumer's rationale for being a spoiled-little-baby-that-we'll-turn-into-a-Webb's-Spider-Man-lover, thinking that a Spider-Man reboot should bomb so the movie rights are reverted to Disney/Marvel is not only naive thinking, it's just plain dumb. Explain it to me, what "Spiderman" - it's Spider-Man, but I'll let it pass this time - being with Marvel would make you watch the movie? You seem to have created an account just to talk about boycottying Spider-Man's movie because you want to see the character back with Marvel, explain me your reasons for that. Explain me what could possibly Marvel do that Sony isn't doing right now, casting a director and an actor passionate with the source material and going wild with the Spidey mythos.

[Deep Wang]

Completely disagree with you. Critics have never been the measuring stick to whether or not a film is good or not. They get paid to watch movies, we pay to see them. I'd rather take a person's opinion over a critics.

I think a lot of people would be shocked at just how little most critics make. A majority of them do it because they love movies, not for the paycheck.

[Punishment]

Hancock's the perfect example of how Smith is invincible. Hancock started bad and then got stupid bad and then horrible bad. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone who liked it. It opened huge, naturally, but it still had legs and kept afloat for the rest of the summer. People will follow this guy to the end of the earth.

I liked Hancock. I didn't get a chance to watch it on the big screen, but wished I had. My wife liked it as well.However, I did not care for WWW or MIB2

[ladyevenstar22]

^{hey 400m club huh ,well done AVENGERS well done, now that's what a call a swift response from the best superhero team ever wonder what the overseas number will be like come monday? will be back later,had a long harassing day around kids ughh i need a nap asap...hope thread isnt up in the 30s when i come back}

[baumer]

I think a lot of people would be shocked at just how little most critics make. A majority of them do it because they love movies, not for the paycheck.

But my point is we all get jaded at our jobs. We go to the movies cuz we want to, not because our job depends on it.

[baumer]

I liked Hancock. I didn't get a chance to watch it on the big screen, but wished I had. My wife liked it as well.However, I did not care for WWW or MIB2

Those are the only two Smith movies I despise. The rest I either like or love.

[lilmac]

I think it's the Rhianna factor that's killing Battleship. I love a summer popcorn movie, but she looks terrible in the trailer and makes the whole movie seem like a joke.

Rihanna looking terrible is impossible.

[Walt Disney]

The Iron Horse, Arachnid is right. If Disney and Sony discover that it's on their best interest to make these movies together, they will do that. I don't want TASM to fail because they seem to have finally nailed Spider-Man's and Peter Parker's character and the movie looks really good so far. And while I can understand baumer's rationale for being a spoiled-little-baby-that-we'll-turn-into-a-Webb's-Spider-Man-lover, thinking that a Spider-Man reboot should bomb so the movie rights are reverted to Disney/Marvel is not only naive thinking, it's just plain dumb.Explain it to me, what "Spiderman" - it's Spider-Man, but I'll let it pass this time - being with Marvel would make you watch the movie? You seem to have created an account just to talk about boycottying Spider-Man's movie because you want to see the character back with Marvel, explain me your reasons for that. Explain me what could possibly Marvel do that Sony isn't doing right now, casting a director and an actor passionate with the source material and going wild with the Spidey mythos.

I will explain my position again. But if I hear one more comment about how my opinion is "dumb" or "naive" then I am done with this conversation. I know most of you probably work in the theater industry or in movie related jobs. I do not and don't claim to be an expert at box office predictions. However, I am an attorney, so I do know about contracts and how to analyze contracts.One last aside, I did not sign up here to champion a boycott. I actually found this site because I was curious about the Avengers and how it was performing at the box office. Then, I became caught up in reading everyone's opinions, and have done so on my free time for the past few weeks. I signed up because i wanted to respond to the poster that asked why anyone would root for a movie to fail at the box office. I had not seen my reason mentioned, so I signed up to share it. Most people are unaware that a lot of the Marvel movies are not made by Marvel, and since I have done a lot of research on the subject, I wanted to share that as well.Now, I will get back to your question. I have personally found all of Marvel's movies very enjoyable since Disney purchased them. I loved Iron Man 2, Captain America: the First Avenger, and Marvel's the Avengers (my favorite of them all). Also, I thought Thor was very good. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Marvel does Marvel movies the best. Also, I love the creation of the MCU and I am excited by the possibility of linking up all these characters on the big screen. Therefore, I would like Marvel to have control over all of their characters.What Marvel can do that Sony isn't right now is to link Spider-Man up with the other characters in the MCU. My own personal opinion for all movies is I don't like reboots or remakes. I don't want to pay to see someone else's rendition of a movie with different actors. If the first movie was great, I don't need to see a different take on it. I can just rewatch the original instead (which is the better movie anyway). I already saw Sony's Spider-Man' origin on the big screen. I don't need to see another Sony take on Spider-Man. Also, Marvel knows their own characters' origin stories better than anyone. It's tough to make a better Marvel movie than Marvel could. Thus, Marvel will stay truer to the source material.As for actors, I am sure Marvel would not cast an actor who looks like he came straight out of a Twilight movie in the role of Peter Parker. That actor doesn't look like Peter Parker at all. Marvel has an excellent track record for casting the right actors in their movies. Probably since they are so familiar with the comic books that they write.Edit: I just wanted to add why Arachnid is wrong. He is wrong because it is not in Disney/Marvel's best interest to work together with Sony. If you want to know why, just ask and I will reply, but I feel this reply is long enough. Edited May 18, 2012 by The Iron Horse

[baumer]

BRAVO!!BRAVO!!Well stated Iron Horse. Thank you for articulating something that I could never do, not as well as you did. You hit the nail on the head dead center. That is exactly the reason i have no desire to see TASM.BRAVO!!

[doctoru2]

If this has a feel of its own, and it is not a complete shot for shot remake of the original, then i will see the next one. But I am so opposed to this one that I can't bring myself to see it until DVD.

I saw a trailer when I saw TA. I felt just like you - until I saw that trailer. Then I was intrigued. I'm sure many disagree, but the trailer suggested a very different film from the one in 2002 and one that was darker. That may or may not be a good thing.If the SM "reboot" (I use quotes because really? A reboot a few years after the last film?) has any level of success, perhaps we would see SM in TA2. And I *would* like that very much.

[lilmac]

I enjoyed Iron Horse's post but after reading some of the TASM spoilers...I am more intrigued. Yes, this movie and its sequels (if it comes to that) will probably never link up with the TA universe. That's unfortunate but it's ok.

[artist]

Back on topic .. Nikki has updated her article with some numbers.

1. Avengers - 53M

2. Battleship - 30M (9-11M Friday)

3. What to expect when you're expecting - 15M

4. The Dictator - 12M

So Avengers will end up closer to 60M then

[baumer]

Back on topic .. Nikki has updated her article with some numbers.

1. Avengers - 53M

2. Battleship - 30M (9-11M Friday)

3. What to expect when you're expecting - 15M

4. The Dictator - 12M

So Avengers will end up closer to 60M then

We have a Friday thread already.

[artist]

We have a Friday thread already.

Sorry, just saw that.

[ZattMurdock]

I will explain my position again. But if I hear one more comment about how my opinion is "dumb" or "naive" then I am done with this conversation. I know most of you probably work in the theater industry or in movie related jobs. I do not and don't claim to be an expert at box office predictions. However, I am an attorney, so I do know  about contracts and how to analyze contracts.

An attorney? Awesome, I'm a brazilian lawyer! With that said, while I'm quite fit to analyze contracts, we don't have any contracts to analyze here, have we?

About your opinion being "dumb" and "naive", I stand behind what I've said. See, Batman & Robin wasn't a bomb. It was a profitable movie, was it awful? Yes it was, I don't even like to think about it, but it was a profitable disaster. Pretty much like SM3, the difference being that SM3 was even more of a bigger box office success, regardless how awful that movie is.

If you are a comic book geek, you'd be aware by now how unfaithful to the material source Raimi's trilogy was, and how much of an abomination SM3 truly  was. It botched the franchise and ruined everything that could come afterwards. I mean, Sandman as Uncle Ben's killer, haven't we learn how stupid that plot was with Batman 89's Joker? There was no turning back, the trilogy was doomed. And don't blame Sony for it, Raimi and his brother were the ones behind all of these "brilliant" ideas. He wanted to make Anne Hathaway Felicia Toomes, the daughter of Adrian Toomes for fucks sake. Can you imagine that? A Vulturess? REALLY?

But that's not exactly my point, my point is that just like B&R, SM3 left an awful taste on the general audience and fanboys mouth. And then it came the brilliant Batman Begins movie. A reboot, a reboot that just like TASM, it wasn't exactly marketed as a reboot, but it was, and it was fucking brilliant.  Can you imagine what would've happened if BB bombed? We'd never get a TDK, let alone a TDKR. 

What brings to my point about how dumb, naive, not informed  your opinion is, or what I suspect, with second intentions. See, you're clever. I can see that, and I'm praising you for it. You're so clever that I can't fathom how you'd think that's a good thing for Spider-Man movies, because a bomb, while it could give the rights back to Disney/Marvel, it would make for at least more ten years until we maybe get a Spider-Man movie, and that wouldn't be a guarantee of succes, let alone a good movie. 

I think that trying to explain it to you this or the other members of the board sort of insulting to your intelligence and others, but here it goes: Spider-Man bombing wouldn't be a good business for Marvel because just like you've pointed out when I said that maybe Fox would buy the movie rights,  buying a bomb is a bad idea. Do you really want Marvel to get the rights back so bad that you're willing to risk not have a good Spider-Man movie for the next 5-10 years , and worst than that, without not even knowing if Webb's Spider-Man is a good movie or not? Do you really think it's a good thing for comic book movies to have arguably the most popular superhero out there to have a bomb in its curriculum?

Wishing to The Amazing Spider-Man to bomb is as bad as wishing The Dark Knight Rises to bomb, these movies have yet to prove how much there is a real market for well made movies based on comic books. This would affect all of them. Luckily, regardless of your "boycott", no matter how dumb and silly it is, The Avengers has proven that there is an avid market for larger than life superhero movies that are family friendly, pretty much what Spider-Man is all about. As a wise Colonel once said, I still believe in heroes. And as a certain legendary director recently said, I don't believe in transcending the genre, I believe in the genre. The Amazing Spider-Man will be the ultimate sleeper hit, regardless of boycotts and the naysayers. I'm rooting for ALL comic book movies coming out the summer. But I confess that I'm more partial to our friendly neighborhood Spider-Man.

This is a very special year for comic book movies. I don't think we should be rooting for one or another, let alone rooting against it. But this is a free World, so whatever floats your boat, mate. But I bet you are aware of all this, I'm just trying to clarify where I'm coming from.

One last aside, I did not sign up here to champion a boycott. I actually found this site because I was curious about the Avengers and how it was performing at the box office. Then, I became caught up in reading everyone's opinions, and have done so on my free time for the past few weeks. I signed up because i wanted to respond to the poster that asked why anyone would root for a movie to fail at the box office. I had not seen my reason mentioned, so I signed up to share it. Most people are unaware that a lot of the Marvel movies are not made by Marvel, and since I have done a lot of research on the subject, I wanted to share that as well.

Oh that's okay, I'm just paranoid, as my fellow friend user could testify. I frankly apologize.

Now, I will get back to your question. I have personally found all of Marvel's movies very enjoyable since Disney purchased them. I loved Iron Man 2, Captain America: the First Avenger, and Marvel's the Avengers (my favorite of them all). Also, I thought Thor was very good. Therefore, I have come to the conclusion that Marvel does Marvel movies the best. Also, I love the creation of the MCU and I am excited by the possibility of linking up all these characters on the big screen. Therefore, I would like Marvel to have control over all of their characters.

What Marvel can do that Sony isn't right now is to link Spider-Man up with the other characters in the MCU. My own personal opinion for all movies is I don't like reboots or remakes. I don't want to pay to see someone else's rendition of a movie with different actors. If the first movie was great, I don't need to see a different take on it. I can just rewatch the original instead (which is the better movie anyway). I already saw Sony's Spider-Man' origin on the big screen. I don't need to see another Sony take on Spider-Man. Also, Marvel knows their own characters' origin stories better than anyone. It's tough to make a better Marvel movie than Marvel could. Thus, Marvel will stay truer to the source material.

 

As I said above, yeah but no. Spider-Man bombing would kill the character as an option for a reboot for at least 5 years, and that's the optimist in me talking. Marvel doesn't want The Amazing Spider-Man to fail. The fans shouldn't want that. What's so hard about watching a movie before deciding to hate it? And it's different of hating a movie like Battleship and rooting against it, because well, you are a fan of the character and should know better. If you want comic book movies to thrive, you should root for them, not against them. Let Spider-Man have his Batman Begins, I'll assure you that the Dark Knight is a big boy and can take the competition, even if TASM is an astounding success.

As for actors, I am sure Marvel would not cast an actor who looks like he came straight out of a Twilight movie in the role of Peter Parker. That actor doesn't look like Peter Parker at all. Marvel has an excellent track record for casting the right actors in their movies. Probably since they are so familiar with the comic books that they write.

Edit: I just wanted to add why Arachnid is wrong. He is wrong because it is not in Disney/Marvel's best interest to work together with Sony. If you want to know why, just ask and I will reply, but I feel this reply is long enough.

Andrew Garfield doesn't look like nothing coming out of a Twilight movie. He's known as one of the most prolific and talented young actors for several reasons, if you need any evidence go watch Boy A, Red Riding trilogy, Never Let Me Go and Social Network. There's a reason why Fincher hand picked him for one of his best movies and it wasn't solely about his looks.

And if you can watch this and not root for this guy...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFXkuAz1Cyg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I'm sorry, but maybe Spider-Man isn't a movie for you after all.

[TLK]

^^^ I agree with Jacksparrow. I will add that this whole reboot , remake debate is tired and is completely played out. Who here thinks that WB will shelf Batman franchise for a decade because they may not want to reboot it? Marvel won't shelf Iron Man either after RDJ is done with the franchise. This is the era in which Super Hero movies are making tons of money. If you run a studio and you are going to sit out important characters like Spider Man, Superman and Batman for an extended period of time then you are seriously an idiot.

[ZattMurdock]

^^^ I agree with Jacksparrow. I will add that this whole reboot , remake debate is tired and is completely played out. Who here thinks that WB will shelf Batman franchise for a decade because they may not want to reboot it? Marvel won't shelf Iron Man either after RDJ is done with the franchise. This is the era in which Super Hero movies are making tons of money. If you run a studio and you are going to sit out important characters like Spider Man, Superman and Batman for an extended period of time then you are seriously an idiot.

Agreed, but it's another thing if you have two bombs under your belt. People wanting TASM to fail, especially the ones that truly are Spider-Man fans should know that boycottying TASM without knowing it's a good movie will kill the chance of having a good Spider-Man for a long time. As a comic book fan and as a cinephile, I want my favorite character to kick all kind of asses in the big screen. Hopefulky TASM will be a movie deserving of have a blockbuster status, just like The Avengers.