druv10 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Batman is big, the Joker's presence makes the franchise much bigger. Get it yet?He already admitted that Joker does that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Batman is big, the Joker's presence makes the franchise much bigger. Get it yet?That wasn't what you originally said. You claimed the Joker was bigger than Batman. That's bullshit and now you're backtracking on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hatebox Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Look: Batman + Joker = $$$. It's their dynamic that brings in the dough. The pleasant surprise is that TDKR will still make a billion without the Joker. Proving that worldwide audiences still care for Batman's story minus the Clown Prince of Crime. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieMan89 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Shpongle, explain this.TDK adjusts to $595m.TDKR is headed for $440m.That's a difference of $155m, which you can attribute some to the Joker and some to Ledger's death. But that still leaves a huge ass movie without the Joker. If the Joker was more popular, then theoretically TDKR should be on track for less than half of TDK's adjusted gross ($298m). Again, good luck proving your theory. The numbers don't support your argument.Uh weren't you arguing all along that TDKR's decrease was primarily due to the Joker? So why do you seem to be arguing against that now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochofles Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Batman is huge. Batman AND Joker are unstoppable.That doesn't take from the fact that Batman is clearly the bigger icon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecstasy Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Here's to some big Saturday increases! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lab276 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Uh weren't you arguing all along that TDKR's decrease was primarily due to the Joker? So why do you seem to be arguing against that now? He always was, that was his primary reason for his original prediction. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPink Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Yeah well most people didn't merely have it doing a 2.5x multi either. They had $200m+ OW prediction and at least 2.8x multi, so you do the math.Well you have to remember at the time when most of these predictions were made, the whisperings around the internet kept mentioning that the movie was as good as TDK, so we started to believe it might have been as well received. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Uh weren't you arguing all along that TDKR's decrease was primarily due to the Joker? So why do you seem to be arguing against that now? Man, you people need to learn how to read. He claimed the Joker was bigger than Batman. The numbers do not support his claim. I've said all along that the Joker provides an extra boost to Batman, but I've never claimed the Joker is "bigger than Batman." That is a bullshit argument and not supported by the numbers. In fact, TDKR had a shooting to hurt its performance and is still going to do very well compared to a Batman film that not only featured the Joker, but had a young actor playing the Joker who died 6 months before the film. TDK was boosted not only by the Joker, but by Ledger's death. I've said that for 4 years. TDKR was depressed by the shooting, whether it was $20m or $50m or whatever. It still got hurt by tragedy, while TDK got boosted by tragedy. TDKR's performance is proof positive that Batman is a bigger deal than the Joker. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druv10 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Uh weren't you arguing all along that TDKR's decrease was primarily due to the Joker? So why do you seem to be arguing against that now? Shpongle said Joker's bigger than Batman. Which is absolutely ridiculous statement. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieMan89 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Man, you people need to learn how to read. He claimed the Joker was bigger than Batman. The numbers do not support his claim. I've said all along that the Joker provides an extra boost to Batman, but I've never claimed the Joker is "bigger than Batman." That is a bullshit argument and not supported by the numbers. In fact, TDKR had a shooting to hurt its performance and is still going to do very well compared to a Batman film that not only featured the Joker, but had a young actor playing the Joker who died 6 months before the film. TDK was boosted not only by the Joker, but by Ledger's death. I've said that for 4 years. TDKR was depressed by the shooting, whether it was $20m or $50m or whatever. It still got hurt by tragedy, while TDK got boosted by tragedy. TDKR's performance is proof positive that Batman is a bigger deal than the Joker. Gotcha, although honestly I don't know anyone who likes Bale's Batman over Ledger's Joker. Maybe overall Batman is still the bigger deal of the two, but in the Nolan franchise Joker would win any popularity contest between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Gotcha, although honestly I don't know anyone who likes Bale's Batman over Ledger's Joker. Maybe overall Batman is still the bigger deal of the two, but in the Nolan franchise Joker would win any popularity contest between them. I'll take Bale's Bruce over Ledger's Joker any day of the week. I don't like Bale's Batvoice, but I love his performance as Bruce. Batman Begins is the better movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrPink Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Gotcha, although honestly I don't know anyone who likes Bale's Batman over Ledger's Joker. Maybe overall Batman is still the bigger deal of the two, but in the Nolan franchise Joker would win any popularity contest between them. No not many, but I'm not sure Joker would be as effective if he had 3 movies based around him. In the end, we want to see Batman do cool shit and beat up people, rather than see an entire movie full of pure anarchy and some inventive one liners/dialogue Edited August 18, 2012 by MrPink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozymandias Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Lol, clowns. Batman isn't nearly as big without the Joker, plain and simple. Trying to jump all over the word I used to describe the Joker isn't helping your case. Maybe "bigger" can be seen as too broad, but the fact that your getting caught up on technicalities like this pretty much means you've got nothing left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#ED Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I think it is fair to say TDKR lost 15-20M OW because of the shooting. Once that got hit, the movie did not match anyones high expectations. The Box Office has been hit and it will take months before we get back to normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 Lol, clowns. Batman isn't nearly as big without the Joker, plain and simple. Trying to jump all over the word I used to describe the Joker isn't helping your case. Maybe "bigger" can be seen as too broad, but the fact that your getting caught up on technicalities like this pretty much means you've got nothing left.You said the word. If you didn't intend it, then don't fucking write it. Very simple mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Founder / Operator Shawn Robbins Posted August 18, 2012 Founder / Operator Share Posted August 18, 2012 (edited) Tracking? MTC was nearly 20m under RS. There were always signs. And maybe the best point to make, as filmnerdjamie pointed out, the first wasn't actually very well received a la Sherlock Holmes. And just like in that case, the trailers here were once again mediocre/painting out the same picture. It's not that surprising. And I say this having had Sherlock 2 be one of my most anticipated films and I liked Sherlock 1. (Sherlock 2 kinda sucked) Audience polling/NRG Nielsen data was on par with Bourne Legacy. Flixster numbers were strong (way ahead of Ghost Rider and Wrath of the Titans which I saw a few people making comparisons too). Facebook activity was extremely far ahead of the first film, as was Twitter. MTC was basically the lone firm calling for a "low" opening, and MTC alone doesn't invalidate any point I've brought up. The point being that -- not all -- but the majority of signs pointed toward a stronger opening. Regarding the first film, I myself didn't care for the movie whatsoever, but the film's legs tell me what I need to know: it was well-liked by its audience. In combination with overall tracking for the sequel (excluding MTC), the signs didn't point to a $27 million opening. Edited August 18, 2012 by ShawnMR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MovieMan89 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 I'll take Bale's Bruce over Ledger's Joker any day of the week. I don't like Bale's Batvoice, but I love his performance as Bruce. Batman Begins is the better movie.But even you have to know you're in the minority on that one right? I mean people don't quote Bale's Batman all the time, they don't cheer for him like they do Ledger's Joker (who shouldn't even be getting cheered in the first place since he's the villain), Bale hasn't won an Academy Award for the performance, and he hasn't made any best movie heroes of all time lists like Ledger's Joker has already made villain ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 But even you have to know you're in the minority on that one right? I mean people don't quote Bale's Batman all the time, they don't cheer for him like they do Ledger's Joker (who shouldn't even be getting cheered in the first place since he's the villain), Bale hasn't won an Academy Award for the performance, and he hasn't made any best movie heroes of all time lists like Ledger's Joker has already made villain ones.I'm fully aware I'm in the minority. That doesn't mean I won't continue to express my opinion on it. I said at the time there was no fucking way TDK was 3 times better than Batman Begins, which is what the box office suggested. And I stand by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redfirebird2008 Posted August 18, 2012 Share Posted August 18, 2012 The Dark Knight Rises - Most people had it at 190-200m OW/575-600m which was just ridicuously outlandish. TDK had 6 months of dead celebrity hype and a villain that is bigger than Batman himself. There was no way TDKR was gonna increase in admissions or even gross on its own merits. Apparently we're a bunch of idiots for not reading your mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
