Dark Knight Rises VS Iron Man 3....ugh

[Jessie]

Squaremaster, travelling at 80mph (your random guess) would probably cause a man's bones to shatter but you can't use this to argue how bad IM3 then call the film in which a man who supposedly has fucked his cartilages up gets his back snapped then recovers within a few months by hanging from a rope a realistic masterpiece.

[dashrendar44]

Squaremaster, travelling at 80mph (your random guess) would probably cause a man's bones to shatter but you can't use this to argue how bad IM3 then call the film in which a man who supposedly has fucked his cartilages up gets his back snapped then recovers within a few months by hanging from a rope a realistic masterpiece.

 

And magical knee brace that makes him crush bricks with his bare knuckles (WTF?!). A magical convenient device that disappears as quickly as it appears for absolutely no reason. Give me a break. Pinning IM3 on its fictional physics to defend TDKR so called realism, pot calling kettle black.

[redfirebird2008]

I enjoy TDKR a lot, but it's definitely not realistic. Tons of comic book stuff in there for sure.

[Lordmandeep]

Screw this

 

Lets do TA vs TDKR and let the fireworks begin!! 

   

[RobinHood26]

TDKR A (93.5)

 

IM3 C- (70)

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Told you guys MOS was better than IM3:http://www.rifftrax.com/bad-movies-worst-of-2013

[Ezen Baklattan]

[Omario]

Let's see, Iron Man logic for a typical action scene:

 

 

Step 1: Give home address to international terrorist who is known for sneaking explosives into the most unlikely places

 

Step 2: Make no attempt to put up any sort of protection around or leave said address even when your girlfriend who you claim to be obsessed with protecting BLATANTLY SAYS you should be hightailing it out of there and how unbelievably stupid it is.

 

Step 3: Call upon consistently malfunctioning suit in place of 40 other fully functional suits.

 

Sidenote #1: I'm pretty sure heading into a stone wall at 80 miles per would cause his bones to shatter and internal organs to turn into a confection of chunky salsa, but nope, it just stuns Tony.

 

Sidenote #2: I'm also sure that pulling someone out from underneath tons of rock and metal AND underwater by their flesh and blood hand would result in a very messy situation for the victim.

 

Sidenote #3: Pepper leaning over the balcony while its collapsing and yet is somehow fine in the next scene.  There is no way she should have escaped/survived except that "the plot says so".

 

 

 

Action scene #2:

 

 

Step 1: SS agents, the most notoriously anal retentive officers on the planet, allow a fully weaponized death machine aboard AF1 without any sort of vocal or visual identification, even though its been shown in previous installments that suits can be hijacked.

 

Step 2: Replace bulletproof windows with easily shattered glass, thus making everyone think that the only difference between AF1 and a generic passenger plane from Air Nova is replacing air marshals with secret service agents.

 

Step 3: While you could very easily send each piece of the suit down to collect each falling passenger seeing as how they move much faster individually than when connected, why just do a ridiculously elaborate and time wasting measure that looks like a rejected stunt from a MarineLand show just so we can pull of a contrived twist to show Tony's not in the suit?

 

 

Post Traumatic Stress Disorder:

 

- Tony has been shown numerous times in previous installments to be close to death (The opening attack which resulted in his arc reactor, the escape scene, the removal of his reactor by Stane, the overloading of the large reactor during the climax, the blood poisoning, the bombs at the end of IM2)  and yet it's nearly getting killed in space that triggers PTSD?  Is getting killed by a freaky looking metal monkey somehow more traumatizing than getting blown up by a 15 foot hulking robot or atomized by a nuclear explosion? 

 

- Tony cures his PTSD by 'building something?'  What the hell do you call those 40+ suits he came up with?!?

 

 

 

- Tony's only disguise is a baseball cap and yet the only person that manages to recognize him in an entire town of hundreds is a news reporter?  He's an over the top glory hound and the most prolific figure on the planet who was famous for saving the world and yet no one except a reporter who's probably had to cover stories on him numerous times over the years recognizes him?

 

 

Twists:

 

The Mandarin twist seems to be focused on a lot in this film, possibly because it was the only twist that wasn't entirely predictable.

 

- Even if you've never seen The Incredibles, Killian being revealed to be a villain was entirely too contrived and coordinated. 

 

Ignoring the OTT Edward Nigma stereotype portrayed by Pearce, do you really expect a guy who was snubbed by Tony in the OPENING FLASHBACK of the film and then returns later on as a successful entrepreneur is only there to walk up to Tony, stick up his two middle fingers and say...

 

"Na-Na-Na-Na-Naaa-Na

I'm-a-big-suc-cess-now

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!..."

 

in nothing more than a glorified cameo?

 

Also, pretty weak motivation to become a supervillain.

 

 

- Pepper survives the fall.  Yeah, because revealing that Extremis subjects are super powerful with various weaponized attacks is in no way going to be displayed by Pepper at some point during the climax of the film.

 

 

 

Misc:

 

- So Tony's suits are coded to him only, yet Pepper and Killian can wear them, no problem.

 

- Tony and Rhodey seem quite comfortable discussing classified information in a public bar.

 

- Tony's computer can reconstruct a crime scene that was never recorded by any device.

 

- Where was Shield during any of this?  Fury can shoot the breeze with Tony when he's pissing around with blood poisoning but can't send in a single agent to help when the PRESIDENT IS KIDNAPPED?

 

- Or, for that matter, where is that National Security that was all over the first Iron Man film?  Terrorist copters attack Tony's house and he ends up somewhere in the middle of Tennessee but no rescue is deployed at any time.

 

- Also,

 

WHERE THE MOD EDITING MOD EDIT WAS THIS GUY DURING ANY OF THIS!?!

 

- Extremis is apparently hot enough to melt steel but does no damaged to normal, everyday clothing.

 

Sidenote: In the Avengers, the IM suit can withstand lightning bolts which usually have an average temp range of about 53,000 degrees, yet here, it can't withstand temperatures lower than the sun (5,600 degrees)

 

 

And possibly the DUMBEST moment of the film, Tony blows up his suits...

 

 

Why?

 

 

Some ridiculously contrived moment of "SYMBOLISM" to show you don't need them?  Because it looked like you were pretty much a fish flopping outside of a bowl without them.  Hell, Pepper was the one who killed Killian with a piece of that tech!  Did aliens, superpowered beings and various other villains just vanish from existence?  What is the point of destroying an army of extremely useful robots? Just WHAT!?!?!

 

If this film wasn't associated with the Marvel conjoined universe and was just another alternate studio release like Daredevil and Ghost Rider, it would have been no better received than those contributions.

 

 

 

I think this is abit too much to be honest...even though i agree with most of it:P 

[Omario]

Iron Man 3 is not even in the same league as TDKR. 

[ecstasy]

I don't like TDKR not even a little bit.

 

I love IM3.

 

That is all.

[ecstasy]

Trevor wins this easily

 

All day. Everyday.

[vc2002]

I can't believe the logic of both films became the main topic in this thread. I mean, they are fvcking SH movies they were born with tons of illogics.

[CaptainJackSparrow]

Dark Knight Rises wins the poll!

[rukaio101]

Just got back from a short holiday and found this Squaremaster post, filled with poorly thought out logic, sitting there just waiting for me to pull apart. It almost feels like Christmas!

 

Anyway, I'll ignore the stuff about physics in Superhero movies as other people have already pointed that out. The rest is fair game though.

Step 1: Give home address to international terrorist who is known for sneaking explosives into the most unlikely places

Since when was Mandarin 'known for sneaking explosives into the most unlikely places'? No-one ever said anything even remotely suggesting that. Most of the explosions (that we saw/heard about) happened in public places that could've been reached by a regular guy with a rucksack full of explosives.  

 

 

Step 2: Make no attempt to put up any sort of protection around or leave said address even when your girlfriend who you claim to be obsessed with protecting BLATANTLY SAYS you should be hightailing it out of there and how unbelievably stupid it is to not do so.

You are a billionaire who is well known for having some of the most hi-tech and powerful weapons/systems in the world. You have just threatened a third world terrorist who is best known for detonating a few bombs in easy-to-reach public areas. And you only did so a few hours ago. Forgive for not exactly finding it hard to believe that Tony doesn't feel the need to be particularly cautious. 

 

 

Step 3: Call upon consistently malfunctioning suit in place of 40 other fully functional suits.

Or, call upon closest working suit instead of other suits that are currently stuck behind a large steel trap and that probably would be blown up before they could reach you.

 

 

Step 1: SS agents, the most notoriously anal retentive officers on the planet, allow a fully weaponized death machine aboard AF1 without any sort of vocal or visual identification, even though its been shown in previous installments that suits can be hijacked.

Ah yes, suits have been hijacked oh so often in the previous films. Like that time where.... um.... that thing.... er.... does Rhodey stealing the War Machine suit count? Well, I guess not since Tony probably coded the suit so Rhodey could use it..

 

Anyway, shame on those SS for not immediately checking to make sure said fully weaponised death machine that had only been coded for one person and could likely only be reprogrammed by people working at AIM, since they developed it, had not been captured without taking any visible damage and reprogrammed while searching for third world terrorists. After all, it's not as if there were press there. Or that the Vice President was working for the villains.

 

Step 2: Replace bulletproof windows with easily shattered glass, thus making everyone think that the only difference between AF1 and a generic passenger plane from Air Nova is replacing air marshals with secret service agents.

Last I checked, Iron Man repulsors seem to have slightly more force that a bullet. So it's quite believable that that's still bulletproof glass. Otherwise why else would said Secret Service agents have guns?

 

 

Step 3: While you could very easily send each piece of the suit down to collect each falling passenger seeing as how they move much faster individually than when connected, why just do a ridiculously elaborate and time wasting measure that looks like a rejected stunt from a MarineLand show just so we can pull of a contrived twist to show Tony's not in the suit?

How do you know each piece of the suit has enough power to slow down a fully grown person enough to stop them dying?

 

 

- Tony has been shown numerous times in previous installments to be close to death (The opening attack which resulted in his arc reactor, the escape scene, the removal of his reactor by Stane, the overloading of the large reactor during the climax, the blood poisoning, the bombs at the end of IM2)  and yet it's nearly getting killed in space that triggers PTSD?  Is getting killed by a freaky looking metal monkey somehow more traumatizing than getting blown up by a 15 foot hulking robot or atomized by a nuclear explosion? 

You appear to assume that PTSD is something that will just appear after any almost death moment for someone. There's a reason people don't form PTSD after nearly being electrocuted by a toaster. The Battle of New York was bigger than anything Tony ever had to face and it's perfectly natural that it may have been just too big for him to take.

 

 

- Tony cures his PTSD by 'building something?'  What the hell do you call those 40+ suits he came up with?!?

Trying to distract himself from his problem. This time he's trying to build something specifically to solve his problem.

[rukaio101]

- Tony's only disguise is a baseball cap and yet the only person that manages to recognize him in an entire town of hundreds is a news reporter?  He's an over the top glory hound and the most prolific figure on the planet who was famous for saving the world and yet no one except a reporter who's probably had to cover stories on him numerous times over the years recognizes him?

Tony has already been reported all over the world as being dead/almost certainly dead. Anyone who saw him would be much more likely to assume it's just a guy who happens to looks like Tony than it being the guy himself, except the reporter who is a massive fanboy of his and probably didn't believe him to be dead to begin with (like some people and Elvis)

 

 

The Mandarin twist seems to be focused on a lot in this film, possibly because it was the only twist that wasn't entirely predictable.

Or because it changes almost everything Tony thought he knew in this movie? That may have had something to do with it.

 

 

- Even if you've never seen The Incredibles, Killian being revealed to be a villain was entirely too contrived and coordinated. 

It's not as if they were trying to hide it. From the second we see Flashback!Killian on that rooftop, the filmmakers made it pretty obvious he's a villain.

 

 

Ignoring the OTT Edward Nigma stereotype portrayed by Pearce, do you really expect a guy who was snubbed by Tony in the OPENING FLASHBACK of the film and then returns later on as a successful entrepreneur is only there so he can walk up to Tony, stick up his two middle fingers and say...

 

"Na-Na-Na-Na-Naaa-Na

I'm-a-big-suc-cess-now

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!..."

 

in nothing more than a glorified cameo?

No. Good thing that didn't happen in the slightest then.

 

 

Also, pretty weak motivation to become a supervillain.

You do realise revenge wasn't Killian's main motivation for his plan? His main aim was to make money. When Tony became involved and he got the chance to take his revenge, it was just the icing on the cake.

 

 

- Pepper survives the fall.  Yeah, because revealing that Extremis subjects are super powerful with various weaponized attacks is in no way going to be displayed by Pepper at some point during the climax of the film. 

Hey, you know that fusion reactor Bruce built which he said could blow up the entire city (but he couldn't dismantle for some reason)? I bet that's not going to have any use in the film/climax.

 

 

- So Tony's suits are coded to him only, yet Pepper and Killian can wear them, no problem.

Obviously he coded them to Pepper in case of emergencies. And I wouldn't exactly say the Mark 42 'fit' Killian perfectly. It just clung to him and exploded.

 

 

- Tony and Rhodey seem quite comfortable discussing classified information in a public bar.

 Rhodey looks to make sure no-one's eavesdropping and made sure to speak in a quieter voice so people can't overhear.

 

Besides, people discuss classified information in public areas all the time.

 

- Tony's computer can reconstruct a crime scene that was never recorded by any device.

How do you know the crime scene wasn't recorded by any device?

[rukaio101]

 

- Where was Shield during any of this?  Fury can shoot the breeze with Tony when he's pissing around with blood poisoning but can't send in a single agent to help when the PRESIDENT IS KIDNAPPED?

When exactly could SHIELD have turned up? Tony didn't want their help when he was in Tennesee and them turning up in Miami might've caused a huge gunfight and let the Mandarin escape in the chaos. By the time Tony learnt of Killian's plan, there wasn't time to contact them before the plane attack/ president is executed.

 

Also, Tony doesn't exactly like relying on them as shown in... pretty much every film he's in previous to this. 

 

 

- Or, for that matter, where is that National Security that was all over the first Iron Man film?  Terrorist copters attack Tony's house and he ends up somewhere in the middle of Tennessee but no rescue is deployed at any time.

Yeah, why didn't they deploy a rescue?! It's not like they thought he was dea-oh wait.

 

 

- Also,

 

WHERE THE MOD EDITING MOD EDIT WAS THIS GUY DURING ANY OF THIS!?!

Yeah, because God knows, wouldn't everyone be just so happy if the Hulk turned up?! It's not like he's a mass of Berserker rage that Banner tries very hard to avoid awakening- oh wait.

 

 

And possibly the DUMBEST moment of the film, Tony blows up his suits...

 

 

Why?

 

 

Some ridiculously contrived moment of "SYMBOLISM" to show you don't need them?  Because it looked like you were pretty much a fish flopping outside of a bowl without them.  Hell, Pepper was the one who killed Killian with a piece of that tech!  Did aliens, superpowered beings and various other villains just vanish from existence?  What is the point of destroying an army of extremely useful robots? Just WHAT!?!?!

Why does Bruce Wayne stop being Batman in TDKR? 

 

 

If this film wasn't associated with the Marvel conjoined universe and was just another alternate studio release like Daredevil and Ghost Rider, it would have been no better received than those contributions.

Considering there are a lot of people here who think the same about TDKR (if it wasn't a Nolan film), I don't think you should be throwing that particular stone.

 

 

Told you guys MOS was better than IM3:
http://www.rifftrax.com/bad-movies-worst-of-2013

Ah yes. Because one poll that covers a very small proportion of overall film viewers says so therefore it must be true.

 

Dark Knight Rises wins the poll!

 

I recall someone said that in the TDKR vs Catching Fire thread. Remember how that turned out.

 

*stretches* Ahh, that felt good. Maybe 3 posts was a bit excessive though.

Edited December 24, 2013 by rukaio101

[Squaremaster316]

Your defense is so desperately reaching that I'd be surprised if you didn't dislocate your shoulder and throw out your back in the process.

 

 

Since when was Mandarin 'known for sneaking explosives into the most unlikely places'? No-one ever said anything even remotely suggesting that. Most of the explosions (that we saw/heard about) happened in public places that could've been reached by a regular guy with a rucksack full of explosives.

 

 

 

An explosion that large in a public setting could have only been made by someone carrying a large bomb, which would have been noticed by security before he got anywhere close to his destination.

 

You are a billionaire who is well known for having some of the most hi-tech and powerful weapons/systems in the world. You have just threatened a third world terrorist who is best known for detonating a few bombs in easy-to-reach public areas. And you only did so a few hours ago. Forgive for not exactly finding it hard to believe that Tony doesn't feel the need to be particularly cautious. 

 

 

It doesn't matter is he did so a few hours or a few seconds ago.  Giving out your address to a terrorist and then not putting up any sort of security whatsoever to the point where anyone could just walk through your front door unannounced and get within stabbing distance of you and your girlfriend WHILE SHE'S TELLING YOU ALL THIS is monumentally incompetent!  Terrible character writing.

 

Or, call upon closest working suit instead of other suits that are currently stuck behind a large steel trap and that probably would be blown up before they could reach you.

 

Yeah, cause it's not like those suits could easily blast their way out of there.  I mean, it's not like they have any sort of ranged weaponry for blowing up sh*t.

 

 

Ah yes, suits have been hijacked oh so often in the previous films. Like that time where.... um.... that thing.... er.... does Rhodey stealing the War Machine suit count? Well, I guess not since Tony probably coded the suit so Rhodey could use it..

 

 

 

Or, I don't know, Whiplash hijacking the suit at the expo and flying it around the city shooting at Tony?  Does that count?  He didn't seem to have any issues with hijacking it.

 

 

Anyway, shame on those SS for not immediately checking to make sure said fully weaponised death machine that had only been coded for one person and could likely only be reprogrammed by people working at AIM, since they developed it, had not been captured without taking any visible damage and reprogrammed while searching for third world terrorists. After all, it's not as if there were press there. Or that the Vice President was working for the villains.

 

 

So you're telling me that the Secret Service still wouldn't take a last minute precaution to simply ask War Machine to speak or lift up his face guard?  I'm pretty sure they're trained to take every single necessary step to make sure that operations proceed smoothly.  If the VP were to tell them to not check to make sure that it's actually him underneath, I'd think that they would find that a bit strange.

 

Last I checked, Iron Man repulsors seem to have slightly more force that a bullet. So it's quite believable that that's still bulletproof glass. Otherwise why else would said Secret Service agents have guns?

 

 

Last I checked, it was a deflected REGULAR BULLET that made the hole.  Nice try, though.

 

How do you know each piece of the suit has enough power to slow down a fully grown person enough to stop them dying?

 

 

One piece was enough to pick up Killain, pin him against the wall and keep him there.

 

You appear to assume that PTSD is something that will just appear after any almost death moment for someone. There's a reason people don't form PTSD after nearly being electrocuted by a toaster. The Battle of New York was bigger than anything Tony ever had to face and it's perfectly natural that it may have been just too big for him to take.

 

 

How was the battle in New York any different than his previous battles except for who the enemies were.  If anything, he seemed to be in more control of the situation than in previous encounters, so why would THIS event be the one to cause him to go off the deep end?

 

Trying to distract himself from his problem. This time he's trying to build something specifically to solve his problem.

 

 

Building tons of weapons in case of another massive attack seems to be focusing on potential future threats and being more prepared for them.  Building a few Christmas bombs doesn't exactly solve the problem

Edited December 24, 2013 by Squaremaster316

[baumer]

[The Stingray]

On Christmas, no less...

[Squaremaster316]

Tony has already been reported all over the world as being dead/almost certainly dead. Anyone who saw him would be much more likely to assume it's just a guy who happens to looks like Tony than it being the guy himself, except the reporter who is a massive fanboy of his and probably didn't believe him to be dead to begin with (like some people and Elvis)

 

 

So a guy who's JUST recently been reported missing on the news just happens to show up wearing nothing but a baseball cap and NO ONE says, "Hey, aren't you that guy..." or "Don't I know you?"  Like I said: Most. Prolific. Person. On. The. Planet!

 

It's not as if they were trying to hide it. From the second we see Flashback!Killian on that rooftop, the filmmakers made it pretty obvious he's a villain.

 

 

So the scene where they autofocus on Killain standing off camera from Kingsley wasn't meant to be a twist.  Next thing you'll be telling me that Obediah from the first film wasn't being treated as a "shocking reveal" by the filmmakers.  Just because something ends up being predictable doesn't mean that's what they were going for. 

No. Good thing that didn't happen in the slightest then.

 

 

 

Like I said, they treated his association with the Ten Rings as a "shocking twist"

 

 

You do realise revenge wasn't Killian's main motivation for his plan? His main aim was to make money. When Tony became involved and he got the chance to take his revenge, it was just the icing on the cake.

 

 

Revenge for what?  From what I've seen he's hugely successful and rich, so why bother trying to kill Tony when he got what he wanted in the end anyway?  And how does causing terrorism on a national level get you rich?  All it does is cause chaos.  Like I said, poor motivation that doesn't even play out in any sensible way.

 

 

Hey, you know that fusion reactor Bruce built which he said could blow up the entire city (but he couldn't dismantle for some reason)? I bet that's not going to have any use in the film/climax.

 

 

 

Was there ever a point in TDKR where everyone ducked for cover just before someone "clipped the blue wire", then breathed a sigh of relief when the countdown stopped, then freaked out when the countdown suddenly sped up?  No?  Gee, I guess it looks like TDKR never made it seem like that WASN'T going to used in the climax.

 

Obviously he coded them to Pepper in case of emergencies. And I wouldn't exactly say the Mark 42 'fit' Killian perfectly. It just clung to him and exploded.

 

 

He stated "They're only coded to me".  At no point did he state that he coded them to Pepper or anyone else.  Are you saying that War Machine was coded to the President?  Because that didn't seem to be an ill fit.

 

 Rhodey looks to make sure no-one's eavesdropping and made sure to speak in a quieter voice so people can't overhear.

 

 

Oh, well that solves everything, doesn't it.  It's not like they have several facilities or personal residents they could be discussing that at where there would be far less chance of them being bugged or spied on.  Hell, why not just discuss in in the car?

 

How do you know the crime scene wasn't recorded by any device?

 

 

 

 

There were no cameras present and the events are shrouded in ambiguity.  If there was that much recording technology at the event, I'm sure the mystery behind the explosions wouldn't be so vague.