Weekend Actuals 5/9-5/11 Neigh 49, TASM 35.5, TOW 9.6, HIFR 7.5

[MrPink]

It's not THE problem. But it is a problem

 

The problem is not enough Paul Giamatti

[Plain Old Tele]

No, it has to do with same ol, same ol. But one way to change that is location. There are many other ways too, and location alone would hardly be enough incentive to make it fresh and interesting again. It is a start though.

 

It's exactly the sort of surface gloss that execs think will make all the difference, and it doesn't matter at all. 

 

You know what matters? Making a good movie with characters people care about.

[redfirebird2008]

Spidey is kind of stuck though. He isn't a billionaire like Wayne or Stark and he can't fly like Superman. How the fuck is he supposed to end up in Hong Kong as a poor young adult?

[John Marston]

If it keeps going down at the current pace, not sure they will be able to get a billion for it at that point.

Still might be a better option if the films can't make much profit anymore

[MovieMan89]

It's exactly the sort of surface gloss that execs think will make all the difference, and it doesn't matter at all. 

 

You know what matters? Making a good movie with characters people care about.

Of course that matters most. But at this point the marketing for future ones is going to have to rely on new and interesting things to get audiences to care again. Even if the actual plot and characters of TASM3 turned out great, it can be hard to show that in marketing. And at this point TASM3 is in store for an ugly OW of which even great WOM may not help much.

[Claire of Themyscira]

Omg. Even better that Godzilla isn't NY or LA.

 

Werk, Godzilla.

 

Give a new city that representation, bb.

 

[redfirebird2008]

I don't think they can get a Billion for the film rights now. Disney has all the merchandising rights already. They paid over $4 Billion to buy Marvel. I don't think the film rights would be worth an extra Billion. Spider-Man films are clearly declining at the box office.

 

Valid point. If it only makes around $50m in profit, then you're looking at needing 20 films just to break even...and that's assuming they can continue at the same profitability rate (not likely). Disney wouldn't even be able to get its money back in 50 years at that rate.

[Chewy]

It's exactly the sort of surface gloss that execs think will make all the difference, and it doesn't matter at all. 

 

You know what matters? Making a good movie with characters people care about.

 

I don't know why you're framing this as an either/or debate. A good movie with characters people care about would probably still struggle if it looked like more of the same, visually

[a2k]

One of the problems is that all of the films are set in New York. Franchises that run for a long time tend to mix things up with all kinds of exotic locations, Spidey's pretty much stuck in NYC.

 

true. one can also say that while they are set in nyc, webb fails to capture the ethos of the city. the beautiful nyc was as good as a character in the raimi movies.

[redfirebird2008]

I don't know why you're framing this as an either/or debate. A good movie with characters people care about would probably still struggle if it looked like more of the same, visually

 

Hell, Batman Begins didn't even look the same visually and it still suffered from franchise fatique. A lot of it comes down to how the studio handles the marketing, but a lot of it is timing too.

 

If you wait 20 years, you have a much better shot of dealing with franchise fatique. Sony can't wait 20 years, so they just have to deal with declining box office. Cut the budget by $120m and get the thing back into more profitable territory even with smaller box office.

[MovieMan89]

I don't know why you're framing this as an either/or debate. A good movie with characters people care about would probably still struggle if it looked like more of the same, visually

Precisely. This franchise is in such a tired rut at this point that even making a good movie alone isn't going to save it. TASM3 is probably looking at a 70m OW if it's lucky. Audiences will need to really be enticed by the marketing next time around to put butts in seats. And the only way to really do that for this franchise now is to have the movie look different and new. Spidey swinging through NYC with tagline claiming it to be his "greatest challenge yet" ain't gonna cut it.

[Plain Old Tele]

I don't know why you're framing this as an either/or debate. A good movie with characters people care about would probably still struggle if it looked like more of the same, visually

 

Visual style has little to do with location.

[TalismanRing]

The problem with these movies has nothing to do with location.

 

But John McClane in Moscow worked so well....

 

Much of the appeal of  Spider-Man is that Peter Parker is a lower middle class kid from Queens who busts his ass trying to make a living and find happiness as he makes personal sacrifices and does the right thing as a hero of the NYC streets.  Jet-setting off to Shanghai is not the answer to what ails this series.

 

No one was complaining about the Times Square scene in ASM2.  It was pointed out as a highlight - at least visually.  The majority of complaints were about the messy script, the under developed unconvincing villains and the warmed over re-telling of the origin story.  Those first two complaints are also what plagued SM3 which opened huge. 

 

None of that is going to be helped by changing location and would only look like a desperate bid to be something new when what audiences want is something better. 

[Chewy]

Visual style has little to do with location.

 

That seems intellectually dishonest to me. Obviously two crews will shoot a location very differently, but two different locations will look even further removed from each other

[baumer]

I really wanted it to fall harder than Sp3.....so close.

[Chewy]

But John McClane in Moscow worked so well....

 

Die Hard 5 was a bad idea full stop

[MovieMan89]

Hell, Batman Begins didn't even look the same visually and it still suffered from franchise fatique. A lot of it comes down to how the studio handles the marketing, but a lot of it is timing too.

 

If you wait 20 years, you have a much better shot of dealing with franchise fatique. Sony can't wait 20 years, so they just have to deal with declining box office. Cut the budget by $120m and get the thing back into more profitable territory even with smaller box office.

BB is a perfect example of a fantastic movie not always being enough to entice audiences to see it. The movie didn't even sell that many more tickets than the dreaded Batman and Robin when you get down to it. Marketing didn't look enticing enough for it to pull that franchise out of its rut. Thankfully becuase it was such a great movie it found lots of extra life on video and helped set up the hype for TDK (although that movie had a whole slew of factors all its own that made it huge besides BB's reception). The main difference is that was a reboot. TASM3 is going to be a second sequel. It's highly unlikely it can turn the whole franchise around in that position just based on a WOM situation. It needs to look fresh and new to stand any kind of chance.

[RichWS]

Spike Lee needs to do Spider-Man to show you guys how NYC really looks.

[PDC1987]

Visual style has much more to do with cinematography, lighting, costume design, character design, production design, and direction than it does location. Location is an afterthought comparatively.

[a2k]

i was of the opinion that while im, ca, thor and superman can participate in an international, planetary and inter-galactic story arches, spidey's stories will never have that room.

 

but apart from capturing mr. lau from hong kong and a few scenens in the early part of batman begins, the batman trilogy is almost entirely set in gotham city. the batman movies dabble in everyhting from ethics to politics. no reason why spidey can't be based in nyc and have one of it's villains from outside nyc if they want a different location. 

Edited May 12, 2014 by a2k