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CJohn

Weeknd Official Est: Apes 2 - 73M | Friday Numbers and Saturday Numbers on Page 1

By CJohn, in Numbers and Data

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ecstasy Global Phenomenon

ecstasy

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So Vegas, that's where you've been. I miss you. Did you have fun?

Obligatory long time no see, welcome back gif for E

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Thanks Sam! Yes we had a great time. Good to be back home though.

 

Love you Cap! :wub:

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Tau Ceti Indie Sensation

Tau Ceti

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Well, to compare, Apes is definitely more sci-fi than fantasy. The scientific grounding of the apes' rise to power is very much relevant to the story and a vital component of their complex relationship with the humans.

 

In Avatar, it doesn't really matter how the mountains float or why all the animals and Na'Vi share a connection. You just accept they do. It all plays into the notion of Pandora being this really cool, mystical place that humans should just keep their hands off of. That's not to say it isn't science fiction as well, but to say it's not fantasy is incorrect, imo.

 

I don't think you read me correctly. I never said that Avatar is not fantasy but that most sci-fi, taken broadly, can also be categorized as fantasy. You are treating them as mutually exclusive terms when applied to movies, which they are not.

 

As for the notion that Pandora is overly mystical and you find that annoying, fair enough. (The Catholic Church, FWIW, dismissed the movie as nature worship.) But that doesn't take away from the fact that the filmmakers did try to ground most aspects of their representation in plausible medium-future technology. There was an attempt to explain and extrapolate, which is the essence of sci-fi.

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DeeCee Global Phenomenon

DeeCee

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I don't think you read me correctly. I never said that Avatar is not fantasy but that most sci-fi, taken broadly, can also be categorized as fantasy. You are treating them as mutually exclusive terms when applied to movies, which they are not.

 

As for the notion that Pandora is overly mystical and you find that annoying, fair enough. (The Catholic Church, FWIW, dismissed the movie as nature worship.) But that doesn't take away from the fact that the filmmakers did try to ground most aspects of their representation in plausible medium-future technology. There was an attempt to explain and extrapolate, which is the essence of sci-fi.

For me, it was to heavily grounded in science to work as Cameron intended.  As an allegory for similar situations on earth between advanced and primitive societies.

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AniNate Global Phenomenon

AniNate

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Posted (edited)

I don't think you read me correctly. I never said that Avatar is not fantasy but that most sci-fi, taken broadly, can also be categorized as fantasy. You are treating them as mutually exclusive terms when applied to movies, which they are not.

 

As for the notion that Pandora is overly mystical and you find that annoying, fair enough. (The Catholic Church, FWIW, dismissed the movie as nature worship.) But that doesn't take away from the fact that the filmmakers did try to ground most aspects of their representation in plausible medium-future technology. There was an attempt to explain and extrapolate, which is the essence of sci-fi.

 

Apologies if I conflated your perspective with Tele's. That fantasy and sci-fi aren't mutually exclusive was exactly what I was trying to argue. 

 

I never said I found Pandora annoying, quite the opposite. I actually really admire how Cameron found a way to turn scientific theories into a really mystical-looking world comparable to other fantasy settings. But since it does lean heavily on fantasy tropes to accomplish that, I think it falls into that category.

Edited by tribefan695
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BK007 Box Office Gold

BK007

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Apologies if I conflated your perspective with Tele's. That fantasy and sci-fi aren't mutually exclusive was exactly what I was trying to argue. 

 

I never said I found Pandora annoying, quite the opposite. I actually really admire how Cameron found a way to turn scientific theories into a really mystical-looking world comparable to other fantasy settings. But since it does lean heavily on fantasy tropes to accomplish that, I think it falls into that category.

 

Just going to wade into this debate right here.

 

Avatar is pretty much fantasy. I think any film that makes you accept certain rules like the Na'Vi and the tree and whatnot without any explanation, except just "is", has to be more fantasy than not.

 

It's like Harry Potter, how does magic work etc? No, accept it. LOTR, then again anything with dragons and mythical creatures all fall into fantasy pretty easily.

 

Apes is sci-fi. But I'm not sure how this discussion started anyway.

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AniNate Global Phenomenon

AniNate

Posted
Posted (edited)

 

 

Avatar is pretty much fantasy. I think any film that makes you accept certain rules like the Na'Vi and the tree and whatnot without any explanation, except just "is", has to be more fantasy than not.

 

 

Well, the counterpoint (that I concede) is that there are explanations, and that automatically makes it not fantasy. I don't necessarily agree.

Edited by tribefan695
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Dementeleus Cinematic Universe

Dementeleus

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Just going to wade into this debate right here. I think any film that makes you accept certain rules like the Na'Vi and the tree and whatnot without any explanation, except just "is", has to be more fantasy than not.

What certain rules? Like I said, they spent more time on scientific setup and explanation (whether direct or indirect) than most science-fiction movies do (including, for example, EDGE OF TOMORROW).
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Kalel009Shel Global Phenomenon

Kalel009Shel

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WB will drag the stubby legged double chinned monster across the $200m mark if they have to give away tickets at Walmart.

Aww dont hate because Godzilla didnt flop like you wanted now ...

 

 The King has returned... Sequel should increase by 300-500+M  :)

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Kalel009Shel Global Phenomenon

Kalel009Shel

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Well, the counterpoint (that I concede) is that there are explanations, and that automatically makes it not fantasy. I don't necessarily agree.

Shoot jumping into bodies.. Aoowha saving grace and calling the animals to help. I think

all  fall in the fantasy  realm to me.. There is no explanation for Aooowha and why they can access

their memories with certain trees.. Also praying and spirtual themes also  fall in the realm of fantasy.

 

:)

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TalismanRing Global Phenomenon

TalismanRing

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Aww dont hate because Godzilla didnt flop like you wanted now ...

 

 The King has returned... Sequel should increase by 300-500+M  :)

 

I didn't want it to flop.  I thought it was an OK moster flick.  A- for the monsters but a D for dull people.  About a B-/C+ movie

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