For Hollywood, not all box office Dollars are equal. Summer sees TF4 trading dollars for cents in China

[Orestes]

If studios only looked at movies like that they would never have production budgets over $100m. It's a global market now.

 

But studios have all the numbers, we don't.

[Walt Disney]

If studios only looked at movies like that they would never have production budgets over $100m. It's a global market now.

 

Right. They look at the box office differently than I do. If they make X dollars WW and say it's their best year ever, then they can. I can't adjust their numbers for inflation and know if they're right or not. However, if they want to talk about success domestically, then I can check the accuracy of their statement.

 

I am not a movie studio. I don't look at films the same way that they do. The people who run MGM now probably don't know who Marcus Lowe is and they sure don't care about how The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse's gross adjusts to today. They aren't comparing themselves to that. But, I am.

[RobinHood26]

He also doesn't site a source.  And I read that because there was so much Chinese participation in T4, that the take is much higher than 25%.  I think it was about 35-40%.  So unless he wants to tell us his source, I'll stick with what I've read elsewhere.  

 

To me, it's just another article that seems to have a beef with Bay and the Transformers brand in general.

 

Im pretty sure he has no beef with Bay or Transformers and simply used it as an example because well its a good  fucking example. Highest grossing movie of the year, huge hit as the article states but then it says it will make less money overall compared to 3… which is true, even if China gets 40%. 

 

Its job was to simply inform people a little more about OS box office. 

[baumer]

But its not going to gross more WW then the last transformers so why would it make more money than the last transformers?

[RobinHood26]

But its not going to gross more WW then the last transformers so why would it make more money than the last transformers?

It grossed the same but will end up making less revinew.

[The Panda]

It grossed the same but will end up making less revinew.

The point of the article is that China $ has less value to studios than US $.The only reason they are pandering to those developing countries is they are developing and showing more potential market growth than developed countries.

[baumer]

It grossed the same but will end up making less revinew.

 

This will be the last I will say about it because to me it's a moot point seeing as we really have no idea what a studio makes unless you hear it from them.

 

Transformers 4 will make about 50 million less than the third one.  The difference this time around is that it made 100 million less in NA.  So that translates to about 50 million less in NA.  It made double in China this time and even if you use 35% (40% is what I read but for the purpose of this, I'll use 35%), that translates into about 110 mill as opposed to about 45 million from the third.  So I'm not really sure where the big difference is in money earned this time around.

[baumer]

The point of the article is that China $ has less value to studios than US $.The only reason they are pandering to those developing countries is they are developing and showing more potential market growth than developed countries.

 

Making a 100 million dollars in revenue from one market is pretty significant.

[vc2002]

But yet Hollywood is feeling its a necessity to kiss Chinas feet.

 

They kiss China's feet not because of what they currently are getting from CHina (which is BTW huge money already), but because how big this market is going to be. Hollywood studios will get better and better deals out of China (they used to get 17%. Now 25% and the deal will be better in the future), and China is going to be bigger than DOM someday in the future. It will be wise to start to kiss them now.

Edited August 29, 2014 by vc2002

[The Futurist]

Bottom line, we still don t know shit about whether a movie is profitable or not. We have a vague idea but that s it.But it is important to recall that one dom dollar is not equal to one os dollar, and if you add the problem of exchange rates between currencies that is never discussed and adressed on this board, I conclude that OS box office is a huge question mark on a lot of levels.And sometimes studios don t get the money from os grosses because they presold the distribution rights to each market like Lionsgate with Hunger Hames.

Edited August 30, 2014 by The Futurist

[A Marvel Fanboy]

This arcticle is full of bullshit.Studios collect more cents per dollor of box office from developed markets like Europe, so what ? Theater marketing and distribution is also much more expensive than in developping markets. Of course the author would not mention or factor in that. what he really knows.Do some people really think studios are that dumb ? Studios know where their money comes. The markets that contribute the most money (and has the biggest potential ) for studios are the ones whose feet get kissed by studios. Can the author find another market outside NA and China that can bring $100m+ for Paramount ? No, he cant. Yet he says it like China's money doesnot count.Cap 2 got $115m bo from China. Out of that number, Disney collected $28.7m (25%) with litterally no P&A fees.Cap 2 got $32m bo from UK, the film's second biggest OS market. Out of that number, Disney collected how much .... $16m ... oh, wait, there probably was more than $5m P&A to cover. Of course English distributors ask for salaries times higher than Chinese distributors. And TV ads, posters, theater standees cost much more in UK....Disscussing how many percentages studios get from different markets is meanlingless without knowing the differences among P&A costs.Developped countries have mature TV and DVD markets but we developping markets have overwhelming BO market capacity and more potentital in years to come.The author is saying it like our money is not money after taking millions US$ from our pocket. That's stupid and pretentious.

[baumer]

This arcticle is full of bullshit. Studios collect more cents per dollor of box office from developed markets like Europe, so what ? Theater marketing and distribution is also much more expensive than in developping markets. Of course the author would not mention or factor in that. what he really knows. Do some people really think studios are that dumb ? Studios know where their money comes. The markets that contribute the most money (and has the biggest potential ) for studios are the ones whose feet get kissed by studios. Can the author find another market outside NA and China that can bring $100m+ for Paramount ? No, he cant. Yet he says it like China's money doesnot count. Cap 2 got $115m bo from China. Out of that number, Disney collected $28.7m (25%) with litterally no P&A fees. Cap 2 got $32m bo from UK, the film's second biggest OS market. Out of that number, Disney collected how much .... $16m ... oh, wait, there probably was more than $5m P&A to cover. Of course English distributors ask for salaries times higher than Chinese distributors. And TV ads, posters, theater standees cost much more in UK.... Disscussing how many percentages studios get from different markets is meanlingless without knowing the differences among P&A costs. Developped countries have mature TV and DVD markets but we developping markets have overwhelming BO market capacity and more potentital in years to come. The author is saying it like our money is not money after taking millions US$ from our pocket. That's stupid and pretentious.

 

Fuckin A!

[grim22]

This arcticle is full of bullshit. Studios collect more cents per dollor of box office from developed markets like Europe, so what ? Theater marketing and distribution is also much more expensive than in developping markets. Of course the author would not mention or factor in that. what he really knows. Do some people really think studios are that dumb ? Studios know where their money comes. The markets that contribute the most money (and has the biggest potential ) for studios are the ones whose feet get kissed by studios. Can the author find another market outside NA and China that can bring $100m+ for Paramount ? No, he cant. Yet he says it like China's money doesnot count. Cap 2 got $115m bo from China. Out of that number, Disney collected $28.7m (25%) with litterally no P&A fees. Cap 2 got $32m bo from UK, the film's second biggest OS market. Out of that number, Disney collected how much .... $16m ... oh, wait, there probably was more than $5m P&A to cover. Of course English distributors ask for salaries times higher than Chinese distributors. And TV ads, posters, theater standees cost much more in UK.... Disscussing how many percentages studios get from different markets is meanlingless without knowing the differences among P&A costs. Developped countries have mature TV and DVD markets but we developping markets have overwhelming BO market capacity and more potentital in years to come. The author is saying it like our money is not money after taking millions US$ from our pocket. That's stupid and pretentious.

 

Actually he does cover both your points, I didn't include them because then I would be copying the whole article

 

 

Despite the smaller revenue opportunities, studios are expending more effort to reach moviegoers in fast-growing foreign markets. Their goal is to find new audiences in China, Russia and Brazil without losing viewers in the U.S., where theatrical attendance has been roughly flat for the past decade. That can be a tricky balancing act, however, as Paramount found with "Transformers." Producing and marketing a movie with foreign viewers in mind can make it less appealing to Americans.

April's "Captain America: The Winter Soldier," for instance, brought in $83 million more than the first "Captain America" movie domestically and collected $116 million in China, where its predecessor wasn't even released under that country's foreign film quota system.

"What we're all striving for is that when these foreign markets explode, they bring in additional revenue, rather than cannibalize existing markets," said Joe Drake, a founding partner of the independent film company Good Universe.

Marketing costs also tend to be lower overseas, particularly in China, where government restrictions forbid most studio-sponsored advertising.

Although physical DVDs are unlikely to make a comeback, film producers are betting that as moviegoing increases in foreign countries, other post-theatrical businesses such as digital distribution and television will grow significantly in coming years, increasing the ultimate value of a box office dollar.

"You have to invest in these markets for the long term," said Nick Meyer, CEO of international film sales and production company Sierra/Affinity, "and ingrain the cinema-going habit."

Corrections & Amplifications

Russia generates about 65 cents per box office dollar over a decade, according to studio analyses. An earlier version incorrectly stated that Russia generated about 55 cents a share per box office dollar.

[Jessie]

It grossed the same but will end up making less revinew.

As of now, It's still the most profitable film released this year.

[John Marston]

don't they make money off of merchandising as well? I think it is clear that TF4 is a hugely profitable film  no matter what. 

[John Marston]

the "international grosses don't count" idea is such bullshit it is not even funny. Certain franchises would be dead if it weren't for international grosses. 

[baumer]

Sounds like fanatical jingoism bordering on xenophobia and idiocy.

[John Marston]

Sounds like fanatical jingoism bordering on xenophobia and idiocy.

 

 

I think it is more because international grosses are propping up certain franchises people don't like. 

[lab276]

For me, looking at the international market as one behemoth is a waste of time. There a so many different currencies and ticket prices and unique circumstances in different markets. Looking at them individually is much more interesting.

[Jandrew]

They kiss China's feet not because of what they currently are getting from CHina (which is BTW huge money already), but because how big this market is going to be. Hollywood studios will get better and better deals out of China (they used to get 17%. Now 25% and the deal will be better in the future), and China is going to be bigger than DOM someday in the future. It will be wise to start to kiss them now.

It's not all abut theatrical, like the chart shows. Home video, Netflix, Hulu, Itunes streaming, television, merchandising, etc. Domestic audiences may not go to the movies as much anymore, but its not like they stopped watching them completely. Many people just wait till they can watch at home. Parents still buy merch for the kids, Netflix and ITunes movies deals are big, people still watch movies on HBO and FX...and besides, yes movie attendance is down, but that's just relative to the golden era of 1998-2004. Attendance is still higher than the 80's and 90's, and pretty good overall. 2012 was the best year since 09, 09 was the best since 04, and 2013 was just a handful of tickets behind 2012. 2015/2016 is also showing some promise. Attendance may be dropping, but its not a year after year fall, it's still going up and down like stock. I know China in the future will be huge, but I still don't see the need to break backs for them. I don't want these movies Chinafied, dom needs to stay the studios focus. Next thing you know they'll all pack up and haul ass out of LA and move business over there like the car companies did Detroit. We can collaborate with China, and strike these good deals, but pandering to them needs to stop and I hope it doesn't become a huge thing. If it does, I can't wait to see a Fan Bing Bing in Think Like A Man 4, trying to fend off Kevin Hart's pick up lines, sounds fun!