Weds numbers (full numbers on pg 8)

[lab276]

Well people rush into stores and blindly buy things.

 

 Online you do research and free shipping it comes to the house.

It's not the same as seeing and touching what you want to buy.

[75Live]

It's not the same as seeing and touching what you want to buy.

 

Yeah I never go out on Black Friday and there are some things I will be online, but I agree, i prefer to actually see and pick it out in person, plus no wait.  You buy it right there and instant gratification

[ecstasy]

Well people rush into stores and blindly buy things.

 

 Online you do research and free shipping it comes to the house.

everybody doesn't have to follow the same steps to get the things they want. People do what's best for them.

[Lordmandeep]

Personally I find in a store you don't get as much selection, get pressure to buy especially in a black Friday situation where is a frenzy.

 

Online, I can compare easily to other stores and see all the features compared to other products.

 

Personally, if I go to a store I usually go in looking online anyways. 

[Klingo]

some people like to see what they are buying and when they pay for it they want their merchandise. I do both.

In this age they have pics or maybe youtube videos reviews on products you may be interested in buying.  I do sometimes check them out in person and then buy it online since I can find them cheaper even with mailing fee.

[LexJoker]

Why has Rth forsaken us in this important week?

[Mojoguy]

No numbers. Rth really has abandoned us.

[23IsEverywhere]

Rth has not forsaken us Rth works in mysterious ways and if we hold on to our faith he will shine his light and clear away our ignorance of the numbers

[Melvin Frohike]

With ROTG multiplier would make $42m.

But Rise of the Guardians was not a sequel/spin-off and it opened even lower, which effectively makes its OD multiplier and a $42M projection an upper bound. Anything is possible, I suppose, but it would be really weird for Penguins of Madagascar to gross that much.

 

I don't see anything wrong with the Penguins of Madagascar number?

It's awfully small for a day-before-Thanksgiving opening of a movie that has a blockbuster-level budget. It was already expected to be low by this standard, but the actual numbers are even lower than this.

 

They even know how much the film will gross after an early OD gross!

It's a projection based on previous examples, and will be updated as additional and more accurate data becomes available. Did anybody claim that they KNOW for a fact exactly how much a movie is ultimately going to gross after just one day?

 

And I hate how DW would rather make garbage, when they have potential to make great movies.

Their potential for making great movies comes from the limited number of highly skilled principal filmmakers they have. In order to make more of the former they would need more of the latter, who are hard to come by.

 

At least Penguins and Kung FU Panda 3 will do gangbusters overseas.

Does Penguins of Madagascar's humor translate well to non-English-speaking markets, though?

 

All movie jumps on Wednesday were lower than comparative movies, MJ1 jumped lower than CF, BH6 lower than WiR,

Regarding the latter, Big Hero 6's two-day jump from Monday is 91% compared to Wreck-It Ralph's 92%, which is good considering the fact that Penguins of Madagascar, despite its underperformance thus far, provides tougher competition than Rise of the Guardians did.

[Rudolf]

In this age they have pics or maybe youtube videos reviews on products you may be interested in buying.  I do sometimes check them out in person and then buy it online since I can find them cheaper even with mailing fee.

And when you have a question about a product, the salespeople are the least qualified to answer them. First they tend to lie about their goods. Before you buy it can do everything and is compatible with every thing. After you bought things change and it never was meant to do that (even when you later find out that it actually can do that). I once was told, it does not matter what they advertize a product can do, it only matters what it says on the box. And then they really don't know. Online you can ask people who actually use this product, how this or that feature works out in everyday life. When you want to try something in the shop and the man who has allowed that leaves another employee may come and look at you like a vandalizer. Last time I bought in a shop, I and the 3 person ahead of me at the cash register had to open all our bags to controll wether or not we were stealing. This took full 10 minutes. (Nobody was found with stolen goods). They do everything to drive us buying things online.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Rudolf

[TServo2049]

Their potential for making great movies comes from the limited number of highly skilled principal filmmakers they have. In order to make more of the former they would need more of the latter, who are hard to come by.

Brenda Chapman is at DWA last I heard, she was developing a film she would be directing. I wonder why auteur talent like Chapman aren't (to my knowledge) getting their projects greenlit yet, but we're getting more directorial projects from DWA journeymen/hacks (whichever you prefer) like Tom McGrath [boss Baby] and Rob Letterman [Captain Underpants]. Edited November 28, 2014 by TServo2049

[Melvin Frohike]

I couldn't believe this when I saw this, but Penguins is Dreamworks Animation's THIRTIETH film. Their first one was Antz, not that long ago. Meanwhile Pixar has still yet to release their fifteenth film and they've been around longer.

That does seem like a lot, as even WDAS, which has been producing animated features since 1937, only has 54 of them over 77 years, but on the other hand the market for this type of movie has changed drastically in modern times. In addition, DWA comprises the original DWA studio located in Glendale and PDI located in Redwood City, so maybe a fairer comparison would be to the combination of WDAS and Pixar, which together have released 32 animated features since 1998. WDAS used to be bigger, having additional major studio facilities in Florida (at Walt Disney World) and France, but have downsized since then and slowed to about one movie per year, while Pixar has grown and plans to release three movies every two years or so, and DWA has of course been trying to push themselves in this way harder than any other studio.

The bottom line is that WDAS + Pixar have, in my opinion (and I'm hardly alone), better filmmakers on the whole than DWA + PDI/DW (together they're just DWA); this is in addition to other factors such as tradition, process, and studio culture. That said, all of these studios have generally done their best work, relatively speaking, when producing movies at a slower rate, so I agree with your basic point even as I dispute the absolute numbers and introduce additional factors. Even Pixar, which now has the production staff to make 1.5 movies each year, may not have enough really good filmmakers to keep up the level of quality that we've come to expect from them. Meanwhile, WDAS has been doing great the past several years at their slower pace. Walt Disney himself tried to make these movies faster, but for one reason or another he and WDAS back in the day never could sustain it. With several projects always in the pipeline and many more being explored, it seems that at some point any single studio with its staff of creative personnel inevitably becomes overwhelmed, and empirically that point seems to be somewhere just past a release schedule of one animated feature per year.

By the way, purely as a side note DWA's original (non-PDI) studio is, oddly enough, located adjacent to Disney's Grand Central Creative Campus, where Walt Disney Imagineering and many other important divisions and units of Disney are located. If Disney were to ever buy DWA, hypothetically speaking, it would physically fit in seamlessly:

Disney's Grand Central Creative Campus with DWA on its southern side

 

The animation is far worse on the television show.

But it is still animation, and the characters look more or less the same, fine details aside.

 

Specially when Frozen grossed more than the last 3 DWA movies combined.

And in terms of profit from the box office alone, Frozen made about as much as SIX animated features of similar cost that gross $600M WW each would make together. Now imagine the disparity in terms of merchandising.

Edited November 28, 2014 by Melvin Frohike

[goldenstate5]

That does seem like a lot, as even WDAS, which has been producing animated features since 1937, only has 54 of them over 77 years, but on the other hand the market for this type of movie has changed drastically in modern times. In addition, DWA comprises the original DWA studio located in Glendale and PDI located in Redwood City, so maybe a fairer comparison would be to the combination of WDAS and Pixar, which together have released 32 animated features since 1998. WDAS used to be bigger, having additional major studio facilities in Florida (at Walt Disney World) and France, but have downsized since then and slowed to about one movie per year, while Pixar has grown and plans to release three movies every two years or so, and DWA has of course been trying to push themselves in this way harder than any other studio.

The bottom line is that WDAS + Pixar have, in my opinion (and I'm hardly alone), better filmmakers on the whole than DWA + PDI/DW (together they're just DWA); this is in addition to other factors such as tradition, process, and studio culture. That said, all of these studios have generally done their best work, relatively speaking, when producing movies at a slower rate, so I agree with your basic point even as I dispute the absolute numbers and introduce additional factors. Even Pixar, which now has the production staff to make 1.5 movies each year, may not have enough really good filmmakers to keep up the level of quality that we've come to expect from them. Meanwhile, WDAS has been doing great the past several years at their slower pace. Walt Disney himself tried to make these movies faster, but for one reason or another he and WDAS back in the day never could sustain it. With several projects always in the pipeline and many more being explored, it seems that at some point any single studio with its staff of creative personnel inevitably becomes overwhelmed, and empirically that point seems to be somewhere just past a release schedule of one animated feature per year.

 

Well, first off they release all their stuff under the DWA banner. I'm talking about things on a pure marketing level. Dreamworks, WDAS and Pixar have all three equally established themselves as "brand". So it doesn't matter how MANY people they have working at once, at different studios or what not, three films in one year is an awful idea. Two a year isn't bad, as long as it you keep them far apart and as divisive as possible. Now they've just fucked themselves horribly, flooding the market with good films, medicore films and bad films because you simply can't keep up that quality with that much riding on you always constantly. You also can't rely on audiences showing up when you can literally get another Dreamworks film just another few months later.

 

Katzenberg is paying the price and I'm sure B.O.O. is delayed til 2016 now. I'd be surprised if it actually got better. 

[Wrath]

Why has Rth forsaken us in this important week?

People need to stop bitching. Rth comes when it works for him. Whining about it every single day that he doesn't is really annoying.

[Chinoiserie]

I think Dreamworks should move Kung Fun Panda 2 to August. It has changes of being a hit but not with that release date (so close to Star Wars). Penguins was probably hurt by the TV show, Big Hero 6 and that people seem to be over the Penguins and maybe animal comedies a bit in general.

 

Not going to lie, I am a huge WDAS fan and seeing them succeed and DWA to struggle is kind of satisfactory after WDAS struggled in the 00s. But I do not want DWA to bankrupt or something, they should just stop flooding the market (hopefully B.O.O really is moving to 2016) and start making consistently better films. I do not really know what they are doing with green-lighting stuff like Turbo, Home and Boss Baby. They should really make an effort to make a great film that has universal appeal so they could have a hit they need, did they really think those three would qualify.

[Jonwo]

I think Dreamworks should move Kung Fun Panda 2 to August. It has changes of being a hit but not with that release date (so close to Star Wars). Penguins was probably hurt by the TV show, Big Hero 6 and that people seem to be over the Penguins and maybe animal comedies a bit in general.

 

Not going to lie, I am a huge WDAS fan and seeing them succeed and DWA to struggle is kind of satisfactory after WDAS struggled in the 00s. But I do not want DWA to bankrupt or something, they should just stop flooding the market (hopefully B.O.O really is moving to 2016) and start making consistently better films. I do not really know what they are doing with green-lighting stuff like Turbo, Home and Boss Baby. They should really make an effort to make a great film that has universal appeal so they could have a hit they need, did they really think those three would qualify.

 

DWA's undoing is partly their own fault for releasing so many films but also the competition simply got tougher and made better or more appealing films and DWA just couldn't keep up

[Melvin Frohike]

Brenda Chapman is at DWA last I heard, she was developing a film she would be directing.

Chapman certainly has talent and skill, but even those don't always translate to good results. She is back at DWA now after a temporary stint at Lucasfilm Animation as a favor (albeit a paid one, I'm sure ) to Kathleen Kennedy (the president of Lucasfilm). Perhaps I prejudge too much from just a trailer, but it sure seems clear enough that she was unable to do much for Strange Magic (as a story consultant). This movie was directed by Gary Rydstrom, who at one point was directing a feature for Pixar (canceled for various reasons, but I heard that it wasn't going very well anyway, which was a factor).

 

I wonder why auteur talent like Chapman aren't (to my knowledge) getting their projects greenlit yet,

The main talent, in terms of principal filmmakers, over at DWA is Dean DeBlois, and he's pretty much been getting his way; the other guy is Chris Sanders, who is more or less allowed to make the movies that he wants to make. Maybe we'll get to see what Brenda Chapman wants to do and is capable of making. All of these filmmakers used to work at WDAS, by the way, and Chapman of course also worked at Pixar for a while (worked at DWA prior to this), which infamously didn't work out well (Sanders was similarly replaced as director on a project by John Lasseter [while at WDAS rather than Pixar], and also decided to leave as a result).

 

but we're getting more directorial projects from DWA journeymen/hacks (whichever you prefer) like Tom McGrath [boss Baby] and Rob Letterman [Captain Underpants].

Projects like these have become DWA's MO--this is where things like tradition, studio culture, and studio leadership come into play. Maybe Jeffrey Katzenberg thinks that cheesy comedies that had once helped launch DWA to the stratosphere are still safe bets. The Madagascar franchise--with the apparent exception of the spin-off going into release right now--sure hasn't told him otherwise at the box office. Maybe the market has changed yet again, but DWA is apparently staying on course for now.

In addition, about half of DWA is PDI, and maybe they have their own way of doing things, to some extent, with their own staff--PDI is what put DWA (before they were the independent DWA of today) on the map with their first CGI animated feature, Antz, and then of course Shrek. Historically they've had a better track record at the box office than the other half of DWA, so they probably get a lot of respect and leeway to do what they want to do, although their fortunes at the box office have changed in recent years, and now they're all in the same sinking boat.

 

 

Well, first off they release all their stuff under the DWA banner. I'm talking about things on a pure marketing level. Dreamworks, WDAS and Pixar have all three equally established themselves as "brand".

I wouldn't say equally. Many have forgotten that WDAS is still around, despite Lasseter's attempt to give them an identity by finally giving them a brand, logo, and intro sequence like Pixar has had from the beginning (well, Pixar didn't have an intro sequence in their first movie, Toy Story, but at least they had a name, a brand, and an identity that was known to the public). In fact, more than a few people think that their CGI movies are all made by Pixar, despite the presence of WDAS' intro and the absence of Pixar's in these movies. And whether from WDAS or Pixar they are all branded as Disney anyway.

In principle, I feel like agreeing and want to agree with you here, actually, and it probably is one contributing factor, but on the other hand I don't feel that it is quite that clear-cut, for the reasons given. Being good doesn't always translate to success just like being bad doesn't always translate to failure, but in the long run being good will eventually win out, and I think it's more about this than the number of movies being made (with the caveat that I pointed out earlier that making more movies within the same studio makes it progressively harder to make good movies).

 

So it doesn't matter how MANY people they have working at once, at different studios or what not, three films in one year is an awful idea.

There are only so many really good filmmakers around, too. And at places like WDAS and Pixar, at least, they all have a hand in every movie, so there can be a sense of too many things being in the air at once, so to speak, for them to effectively handle as an individual studio unit.

 

Not going to lie, I am a huge WDAS fan and seeing them succeed and DWA to struggle is kind of satisfactory after WDAS struggled in the 00s. But I do not want DWA to bankrupt or something, they should just stop flooding the market (hopefully B.O.O really is moving to 2016) and start making consistently better films. I do not really know what they are doing with green-lighting stuff like Turbo, Home and Boss Baby. They should really make an effort to make a great film that has universal appeal so they could have a hit they need, did they really think those three would qualify.

It all eventually comes down to Jeffrey Katzenberg and the projects that he thinks will bring the most success to DWA. Now let's see when or if his thinking changes.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Melvin Frohike

[Melvin Frohike]

DWA's undoing is partly their own fault for releasing so many films but also the competition simply got tougher and made better or more appealing films and DWA just couldn't keep up

WDAS has definitely improved from earlier this century (albeit not necessarily from where they were 20-some-odd years ago or 70-some-odd years ago, for that matter), but Pixar has definitely not improved (although their box office performance has remained high). What I think is happening is a combination of WDAS' resurgence, the emergence of other players, such as Illumination, that have stolen some of DWA's thunder in the kinds of movies that they customarily make, and DWA's spotty reputation for quality (in terms of story) finally catching up to them.

And from the looks of things, at least so far Katzenberg hasn't reacted quickly enough to change their course, choosing to green-light what seem to many to be inherently unappealing concepts based on his idea to purchase and capitalize on old cartoon properties that few people even remember anymore, and children and young adults know nothing about. At the moment, DWA sure appears to be headed for disaster.

[Jonwo]

WDAS has definitely improved from earlier this century (albeit not necessarily from where they were 20-some-odd years ago or 70-some-odd years ago, for that matter), but Pixar has definitely not improved (although their box office performance has remained high). What I think is happening is a combination of WDAS' resurgence, the emergence of other players, such as Illumination, that have stolen some of DWA's thunder in the kinds of movies that they customarily make, and DWA's spotty reputation for quality (in terms of story) finally catching up to them.

And from the looks of things, at least so far Katzenberg hasn't reacted quickly enough to change their course, choosing to green-light what seem to many to be inherently unappealing concepts based on his idea to purchase and capitalize on old cartoon properties that few people even remember anymore, and children and young adults know nothing about. At the moment, DWA sure appears to be headed for disaster.

 

Illumination, Warner Bros and to a lesser extent Sony and Blue Sky have eaten into DWA's market share. Despicable Me did well and made Megamind which wasn't a bad film by any stretch look like old hat, The Lego Movie was a hit for WB and was able to capitalised on nostalgia that people had for Lego and was full of pop culture references and that overshadowed Mr Peabody and Sherman and even Hotel Transylvania which was the problem project managed to be a hit for SPA and overshadowed Rise of the Guardians which also had iconic characters in it. 

 

When DWA do well with a film, it usually turns out great e.g. Shrek, HTTYD, The Croods but somehow Katzenberg has a franchise mentality when in reality not every film needs a sequel or a spin-off. The fact they ordered a Turbo TV series before the film was released shows arrogance. 

 

 

 

Projects like these have become DWA's MO--this is where things like tradition, studio culture, and studio leadership come into play. Maybe Jeffrey Katzenberg thinks that cheesy comedies that had once helped launch DWA to the stratosphere are still safe bets. The Madagascar franchise--with the apparent exception of the spin-off going into release right now--sure hasn't told him otherwise at the box office. Maybe the market has changed yet again, but DWA is apparently staying on course for now.

In addition, about half of DWA is PDI, and maybe they have their own way of doing things, to some extent, with their own staff--PDI is what put DWA (before they were the independent DWA of today) on the map with their first CGI animated feature, Antz, and then of course Shrek. Historically they've had a better track record at the box office than the other half of DWA, so they probably get a lot of respect and leeway to do what they want to do, although their fortunes at the box office have changed in recent years, and now they're all in the same sinking boat.

 

I imagine if DWA were to close one of their studios, it would probably be PDI even though they have had better success than DWA. I think Katzenberg before declaring 2D was dead and went solely CG wanted to have Dreamworks have 2D, CG and stop motion hence why they originally partnered with Aardman on Chicken Run and Wallace and Gromit but that relationship went sour during the production of Wallace and Gromit and the straw that broke the camel back was Flushed Away which ended the relationship;

Edited November 28, 2014 by Jonwo

[mahnamahna]

I'm not convinced the GA interest in movies will rebound so soon but I hope you are right. This whole year has had a number of movies that seemed solid on paper but ended up underperforming. I expected November to be much bigger. I predicted...

Interstellar $240-$275

Mockingjay $375-$400

Horrible Bosses 2 $100-$125

Penguins of Madagascar $125-$150

Honestly Penguins and HB2 were both destined to underperform.

 

DW moved Penguins to 2014 over the summer I believe... and they've been doing mediocre at the BO for the last few years. 

 

Horrible Bosses 2 was an unneeded sequel to a film with zero nostalgia. 

 

Interstellar appealed to a much older/intellectual crowd than Inception or TDK. It also did not have as many money shots.

 

Mockingjay 1 was part one of an adaption of what is generally considered the worst book in the Hunger Games series. Harry Potter and Twilight both experienced declines with their part 1s. Not as bad as MJ1's drop but still a drop. 

 

The box office has been down for 11 months. December is the only month that looks stronger than last year.

 

The Hobbit 3 - $310 million 

Unbroken - $285 million 

Exodus - $220 million 

Into the Woods - $175 million 

Selma - $150 million 

Night at the Museum 3 - $135 million 

American Sniper - $125 million 

Annie - $95 million 

The Interview - $75 million 

 

Granted, some of those will be in January (for wide release), but there's no reason to assume the box office won't rebound. It always does.