Dreamworks Animation: What Went Wrong?

[Jonwo]

Until Pixar has a film that is under $150m domestic then they are safe. They do need to cut the budgets of their films to the same level as WDAS but I imagine that cannot be achieved without layoffs

I do think with the animated films being released, we may some casualties like in the 90s.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Jonwo

[Melvin Frohike]

Can t wait for the Pixar WWW thread when both Inside Out and Good Dinausor disapoints both in bo and/or quality ...

Yeah, it will get derailed, too, and we'll talk about nothing but DWA's problems.

 

Until Pixar has a film that is under $150m domestic then they are safe. They do need to cut the budgets of their films to the same level as WDAS but I imagine that cannot be achieved without layoffs

Layoffs or making movies faster--pick your poison.

 

I do think with the animated films being released, we may some casualties like in the 90s.

"May the odds be ever in your favor!"

Edited December 5, 2014 by Melvin Frohike

[TServo2049]

The difference is that DWA's failures could pose a threat to its existence. If things keep up, they could conceivably end up drowning in their own red ink like many a previous indie would-be mini-major (Orion, Carolco, Revolution - even Disney prior to 1984 was close to being broken up, with the theme parks being sold off and the animation studio almost certainly being shut down).

Pixar, on the other hand, has Disney's patronage, and there is no risk of them actually ceasing to exist, because Disney as a whole is healthy. Despite WDAS' post-Renaissance troubles, they weren't in any immediate danger of being completely shut down (even if the Orlando and Paris studios were ultimately shuttered).

Edited December 5, 2014 by TServo2049

[vc2002]

Pixar laid off 5% of the Headquarters Staff last year, so yes Pixar is far from be in the same bad situation as DWA, but the trend is they clearly is going downhill. Pixar is of cause, no matter what, in a much safer place as Disney is behind it.

 

Also, as I posted in the Frozen thread, it's really interesting that while Pixar is kinda going downhill, Disney Animation is quickly regaining its glory days. Wreck-It Ralph totally looked like a Pixar work, yet Disney Animation totally nailed it by itself. Tangled is a solid Disney-style success and then of cause the mega hit Frozen reminded the world of the full power of Disney Animation.

[Jonwo]

The difference is that DWA's failures could pose a threat to its existence. If things keep up, they could conceivably end up drowning in their own red ink like many a previous indie would-be mini-major (Orion, Carolco, Revolution - even Disney prior to 1984 was close to being broken up, with the theme parks being sold off and the animation studio almost certainly being shut down).

Pixar, on the other hand, has Disney's patronage, and there is no risk of them actually ceasing to exist, because Disney as a whole is healthy. Despite WDAS' post-Renaissance troubles, they weren't in any immediate danger of being completely shut down (even if the Orlando and Paris studios were ultimate to shuttered).

DreamWorks both Animation and SKG have fallen from grace in the space of 10 years which is funny because when they originally set it up, it did produce some great films which were successful but SKG has only had three successful films since they split from Paramount, it might get better with the release of St James Place next year and the BFG but it wouldn't be surprise me if SKG folds in the future or is merged with Amblin.

DWA does need to sort themselves out but its going to take a while and I don't know if Katzenberg can afford to keep it afloat.

[Melvin Frohike]

It's easy enough to see from its intro that there was some kind of weird identity crisis going on inside WDAS--if you don't know what you are anymore and are trying to be something else, then how could you know what you're doing?

...

but they needed to have the confidence to do what they knew how to do, updated for the times as they had always done before, but still Disney and still based on quality storytelling rather than all of that cheesy crap they desperately tried to cobble together.

...

Lasseter, old Disney fan and WDAS hand that he was, had faith that the public still wanted what WDAS had to offer, and always would. This is mainly, I think, what Lasseter gave to WDAS, and it was exactly what they needed, coming from somebody they themselves believed in, so they very eagerly went and did what they knew best. Lasseter didn't tell them to be Pixar, he told them to be Disney again, and that's exactly what they did.

If you think about it, WDAS' problems were analogous to Elsa's--they were afraid of themselves, in a way, and as a result their "powers" went out of control. Now, Lasseter didn't exactly sacrifice himself to save them like Anna did , but he did give them some love and boosted their confidence by putting his faith in them, and for the most part that's all it took (along with hard work from all involved) to get them back on their feet.

 

Pixar laid off 5% of the Headquarters Staff last year,

After closing down Pixar Canada entirely.

 

so yes Pixar is far from be in the same bad situation as DWA, but the trend is they clearly is going downhill. Pixar is of cause, no matter what, in a much safer place as Disney is behind it.

Disney and all of the unparalleled synergy they have, including merchandise and theme parks, help maximize the value of every release, so it's a good situation. If Pixar's budgets and staffing level were closer to WDAS', then they'd have very little to worry about, but like I said Pixar is a bit hung-up on a transitional phase here. It's also different for Pixar because every layoff is headline news, while WDAS lays people off all the time, whenever there is any gap in full production, and nobody cares. Most of these folks are hired per project, anyway, and there is other work to be found around LA until WDAS needs them again (sounds bad to other people, but that's how Hollywood normally functions anyway). WDAS does have a sizable permanent staff of key employees, but it's a lot smaller than the staff that Pixar has to keep employed.

 

Also, as I posted in the Frozen thread, it's really interesting that while Pixar is kinda going downhill, Disney Animation is quickly regaining its glory days.

Well, like good and bad times in our own personal lives, these things tend to go in cycles, and both of these studios happened to be due (in opposite ways, in this case). Pixar still has a chance to avert financial problems, though, so they've been lucky.

 

Wreck-It Ralph totally looked like a Pixar work, yet Disney Animation totally nailed it by itself.

Hmmm...it doesn't seem like a Pixar movie to me at all, but anyway it is an example of Lasseter being "looser" and more experimental with WDAS, choosing to have Rich Moore come in to see what he could do as a director at WDAS, and it worked brilliantly. This is not something that would have happened at Pixar, and it is another example of what I meant by these studios not only being different but being run differently by the same guy. Lasseter must look forward to his trips down to Burbank these days, but I think what he needs to do is change how he's running Pixar--be more open-minded or whatever it takes to help creativity flow freely there again. WDAS was once gripped by fear of themselves, and now it seems that with regard to Pixar specifically Lasseter is ironically gripped by fear of failure--what he needs to do, in more than one sense, is...let it go.

[tupek]

Shrek 5 for 2019?

 

Do people really think Shrek will be the Dreamflops' saving grace? At this point Madagascar 4 and HTTYD 3 would outgross any new Shrek....

[Sir Tiki]

Do people really think Shrek will be the Dreamflops' saving grace? At this point Madagascar 4 and HTTYD 3 would outgross any new Shrek....

 

I'm sure Jeffrey Katzenberg thinks it. He's been hinting recently that he wants to make another Shrek film...

Edited December 5, 2014 by Sir Tiki

[Jonwo]

The problem with doing another Shrek is that it ended pretty well, unless they go the prequel route.

[Melvin Frohike]

I'm sure Jeffrey Katzenberg thinks it. He's been hinting recently that he wants to make another Shrek film...

I started hearing rumors about this shortly after HTTYD 2's release. Shrek was what originally launched DWA to prominence, so the natural tendency (logic aside--it's overrated anyway ) would be to want to believe that this franchise could be DWA's savior, both at the box office and in reminding people that they used to love DWA. I guess it's analogous to how a princess musical has come to WDAS' rescue repeatedly (every major era of success for them began with one of these, including the latest with Tangled ), but they were different movies, not sequels.

I don't think it would work, but Shrek 5 is no worse an idea than some of what DWA currently has on their slate. Katzenberg seriously needs to take some drastic action here--it's not too late to cancel some of these projects and develop something better. If their current filmmakers can't do the latter, then maybe it is time to give somebody else a chance.

[Sal]

So, they're estimating an overall DOM total for Penguins at around 88m.  That would be very bad news for Dreamworks...

[tupek]

Practically the same numbers as The Muppets.

[BK007]

I started hearing rumors about this shortly after HTTYD 2's release. Shrek was what originally launched DWA to prominence, so the natural tendency (logic aside--it's overrated anyway ) would be to want to believe that this franchise could be DWA's savior, both at the box office and in reminding people that they used to love DWA. I guess it's analogous to how a princess musical has come to WDAS' rescue repeatedly (every major era of success for them began with one of these, including the latest with Tangled ), but they were different movies, not sequels.

I don't think it would work, but Shrek 5 is no worse an idea than some of what DWA currently has on their slate. Katzenberg seriously needs to take some drastic action here--it's not too late to cancel some of these projects and develop something better. If their current filmmakers can't do the latter, then maybe it is time to give somebody else a chance.

 

Shrek is not their saviour though and never has been.

 

Both the original Shrek and Shrek 2 were "fresh" in terms of everything and the industry. 

 

Shrek the Third happened during a good time for them, and they dropped the ball. 

 

Shrek Forever After was horrible in that it dropped so much in admissions that Dragon nearly beat it.

 

Dreamworks has only one answer to its slump and that is making more HTTYD-lite quality movies and even then, it will be WOM and a slow climb up.

 

I kinda hope Penguins falls below Turbo because then no more hiding for Katzenberg. Could be the end of him. 

[filmlover]

Too many movies. It was one thing when they were churning out two a year (and in most of those years, particularly the Aardman years, the two movies were different enough to prevent oversaturation), but now they are just releasing three a year and the movies are all sort of starting to blend together which makes their efforts seem less special.

[Melvin Frohike]

So, they're estimating an overall DOM total for Penguins at around 88m.  That would be very bad news for Dreamworks...

That's within my own estimated range ($80-90M DOM). And yes, it would be very bad news for DWA, especially if the movie falls short of $300M OS.

 

 

Shrek is not their saviour though and never has been.

Well, Shrek was their first big hit, and really got them going. Aside from this and Shrek 2 they hadn't gotten any real traction up till then. The whole industry and market seemed to change around this point, too.

I'm not saying that Shrek 5 will save them--in fact, I said the opposite--but their other ideas are at least as bad.

 

Both the original Shrek and Shrek 2 were "fresh" in terms of everything and the industry. 

 

Shrek the Third happened during a good time for them, and they dropped the ball. 

 

Shrek Forever After was horrible in that it dropped so much in admissions that Dragon nearly beat it.

Yes, as far as I'm concerned, that ship has sailed. The only way it wouldn't sink now is if the GA has become highly nostalgic for this franchise, but I wouldn't count on it.

 

Dreamworks has only one answer to its slump and that is making more HTTYD-lite quality movies and even then, it will be WOM and a slow climb up.

Quality does seem to matter with animated features more than just about anything else--people just view them differently for some reason. The same is true of branding with regard to animation, and obviously the best association to have is between brand and good quality.

 

I kinda hope Penguins falls below Turbo because then no more hiding for Katzenberg. Could be the end of him.

Same here. He squandered what might have been his last, best chance with SoftBank by holding out for too much money. He wanted a positive return on his IPO investment in DWA, but in the attempt he might have lost not only even more money but his opportunity to maintain his hold on DWA. The way things have been and look to be going now, the company's market capitalization will continue to drop and he will likely be eventually forced to sell DWA for cheap to recoup some cash, and the buyer will show him the door and give him the boot.

Edited December 7, 2014 by Melvin Frohike

[Jonwo]

Same here. He squandered what might have been his last, best chance with SoftBank by holding out for too much money. He wanted a positive return on his IPO investment in DWA, but in the attempt he might have lost not only even more money but his opportunity to maintain his hold on DWA. The way things have been and look to be going now, the company's market capitalization will continue to drop and he will likely be eventually forced to sell DWA for cheap to recoup some cash, and the buyer will show him the door and give him the boot.

Katzenberg made the huge mistake spinning off DWA from SKG because they are now in this mess without any insulation. Plus the idea of doing three films a year was always a bad idea and it's come to bite them in the bum

Hopefully other heads of animated studios will see DWA's woes as a way of not doing business.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Jonwo

[Sal]

Practically the same numbers as The Muppets.

 

Well, the big difference here is that the Muppets were a commercial success with 88m since the movie's budget was only 45m.  (WW it virtually quadrupled its budget box-office wise).   Muppets making 88m on a 45m budget is a very different beast than PoM possibly making 88m on a 132m budget. 

[Jonwo]

The WW gross was $165m so The Muppets was profitable for Disney.

It'll be interesting if Katzenberg bows out on his own accord or is forced to leave.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Jonwo

[kowhite]

Katzenberg made the huge mistake spinning off DWA from SKG because they are now in this mess without any insulation. Plus the idea of doing three films a year was always a bad idea and it's come to bite them in the bum

Hopefully other heads of animated studios will see DWA's woes as a way of not doing business.

 

I can't imagine still being a part of SKG would be a good thing...you think DWA animation is in trouble...

 

As for Pixar, well, until Pixar makes a movie that actually loses money...I'd say they're doing ok.  All eyes on Good Dino though...that one...could be of concern.

[Spidey Freak]

If you think about it, WDAS' problems were analogous to Elsa's--they were afraid of themselves, in a way, and as a result their "powers" went out of control. Now, Lasseter didn't exactly sacrifice himself to save them like Anna did , but he did give them some love and boosted their confidence by putting his faith in them, and for the most part that's all it took (along with hard work from all involved) to get them back on their feet.

 

That would make Dreamworks/Katzenberg and Shrek in particular, Hans and the Duke of Weselton!

 

Speaking of which, that's another thing slowly killing Dreamworks. The parody style of their films has rapidly gone from intelligent and well-placed criticism (Shrek and to a lesser extent, Shrek 2) to outright obnoxious, petty and shaming for what seems like, as the Duke would say, "ulterior motives" (Shrek the Turd and many DWAS movies that have followed after, the most recent example being Penguins). Films like The Turd and Penguins of Madagascar seem more interested in ripping Disney Animation a new one for their beauty/cuteness hangup than offering something of quality and substance. I mean, Shrek and especially Shrek 2 were pretty mean spirited to begin with, but they at least balanced it with heart. Something the latter DWA films have been sorely lacking in, with exceptions like KFP, Dragon and The Croods.

Edited December 8, 2014 by Spidey Freak