Melvin Frohike Posted January 26, 2015 Share Posted January 26, 2015 DWA runs their franchises to the ground. Not just their franchises, but ultimately their brand, quite possibly--not unlike what Katzenberg (along with Eisner) did while at Disney (especially with the direct-to-video crap). JK doesn't think long-term, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he has long-term goals but does not run his business in a way that actually builds toward them--when times are good, he lives in the moment and seems to think that the good times will last forever no matter what he does. Did Panda series really start after? Yes, I looked it up (like I should have earlier ), and Kung Fu Panda 2 was released in May of 2011 while the TV series began airing in September of the same year. Well, then it really still is the #1 WTF disappointment. Something must have contributed to that movie's non-event status. I don't know, maybe a big reason the original movie was such a hit was the whole panda-doing-kung-fu thing, and once that was done, it was no longer so novel. The movie was well liked, but not spectacularly so, which is why I think it shouldn't be so surprising that not everybody came back for more (of something that has been done before). I mean, I like these movies, myself, but it's not as though the original had the kind of WOM and legs that HTTYD did, for example. To me, this makes HTTYD 2's underperformance (based on expectations, and in regard to the DOM market here) more perplexing, although as discussed earlier perhaps its TV series had something to do with this, in part. By the way, I think that in general the franchises whose sequels perform better than the original movies at the box office are the ones that get hyped in some way after the original finishes its run, and catch on in a big way on video and in the pop culture, for example. In such cases, it is only natural that the sequel would gross more overall, with a good example being Despicable Me 2 in 2013. Without this, a sequel with its built-in audience may still open bigger than the original but may well finish with less, as well. Let's face it, deserved or otherwise (I say otherwise, but that's just my opinion), the Minions and whatever else from Despicable Me had much greater pop culture penetration than the characters of KFP and HTTYD--even the fantastic WOM of the latter did not translate to huge post-theatrical popularity and longevity, beyond the more hardcore fans. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boxx93 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just finish KFP 3 and Dragon 3... after that DreamWorks have my permission to die. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenUnicorn Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Just finish KFP 3 and Dragon 3... after that DreamWorks have my permission to die. Unless B.O.O. and Me and My Shadow are saved from Development Hell and actually made, I share this view. Once those 4 movies are done though, I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudalb Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I feel really bad for DWA, especially the laid off workers. I feel sorry for the workers,but not for the management of DWA, since their stupid decisions is what go them into this mess. But if you work in the film industry layoffs are a way of life. The rate is much higher then in other industries. If you are looking for job security,don't go into the film business. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonwo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Not just their franchises, but ultimately their brand, quite possibly--not unlike what Katzenberg (along with Eisner) did while at Disney (especially with the direct-to-video crap). JK doesn't think long-term, or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that he has long-term goals but does not run his business in a way that actually builds toward them--when times are good, he lives in the moment and seems to think that the good times will last forever no matter what he does. It's frustrating that Katzenberg isn't stepping aside and get someone who could turn around the company. The fact he going to be more hands on doesn't fill me with confidence considering his meddling in the past. IMO he's the root of DWA's woes. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK007 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 J-Katz won't see his mistake until it's too late to change it. He isn't going to leave his own company and no analyst is brave enough or smart enough to call it out. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TServo2049 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I'm reading DisneyWar, and will read The Men Who Would Be King after that. It's interesting how when Katzenberg was at Disney, he was so into making "Disney" animated movies, but after he left he seemed to become obsessed with making stuff that was the antithesis to Disney. Earnestness and "heart" seem in short supply, which is part of why so many people's reaction to HTTYD1 was that it felt closer to a Pixar movie than a DreamWorks movie. I had no idea that Katzenberg was actually quite instrumental in the development of The Lion King, or that he actually had the most faith in Who Framed Roger Rabbit out of any of the studio execs. (He supposedly said flat out that it would be the biggest movie of the year.) He was a meddler in his Disney days, but he didn't seem to be obsessed with making aggressively in-your-face stuff. Part of the reason I'm reading these books is to figure out what the hell happened with him. Though obviously, they won't be the whole story - DisneyWar mentions Katzenberg helping Pixar through early story problems on Toy Story by suggesting they watch The Defiant Ones and 48 Hrs., but says nothing about the later "Black Friday," which was, from what I've read, caused in part by them following prior story notes by Disney execs to make the film "edgy." Some accounts (I think Steve Jobs' biography is one of them) say the main person at Disney pushing the "edgy" line was Katzenberg. I just can't figure this guy out. Maybe someone will eventually write a book about this era at DWA.... Edited January 27, 2015 by TServo2049 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonwo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 I'm reading DisneyWar, and will read The Men Who Would Be King after that. It's interesting how when Katzenberg was at Disney, he was so into making "Disney" animated movies, but after he left he seemed to become obsessed with making stuff that was the antithesis to Disney. Earnestness and "heart" seem in short supply, which is part of why so many people's reaction to HTTYD1 was that it felt closer to a Pixar movie than a DreamWorks movie. I had no idea that Katzenberg was actually quite instrumental in the development of The Lion King, or that he actually had the most faith in Who Framed Roger Rabbit out of any of the studio execs. (He supposedly said flat out that it would be the biggest movie of the year.) He was a meddler in his Disney days, but he didn't seem to be obsessed with making aggressively in-your-face stuff. Part of the reason I'm reading these books is to figure out what the hell happened with him. Pocahontas was actually the first film he seriously meddled with because it was meant to less serious than it became because Katzenberg wanted it to an Oscar winner after Beauty and the Beast was nominated and both Aladdin and Lion King were far too in advance to make any major changes. Toy Story was another, Katzenberg wanted it to be edgy and Pixar listened to him and the first test screening was a disaster and he asked Tom Schumacher who was head of animation why the film had turned out so badly, in which Schumacher replied. 'Because it's not their movie anymore.' When Aardman were making Curse of the Wererabbit, Katzenberg kept giving notes that Nick Park found frustrating and I think the experience on it and on Flushed Away lead to the split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TServo2049 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I know Katzenberg basically drove the wedge between DWA and Aardman. I remember hearing about how Flushed Away was interfered with and retooled almost all the way up to release, and I know whole characters (in particular the hamster butlers, I forget their names) were removed from the final cut. When the movie flopped, and they subsequently broke up, I think most people figured DWA was to blame, and not Aardman. Edited January 27, 2015 by TServo2049 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonwo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 (edited) I know Katzenberg basically drove the wedge between DWA and Aardman. I remember hearing about how Flushed Away was interfered with and retooled almost all the way up to release, and I know whole characters (in particular the hamster butlers, I forget their names) were removed from the final cut. And don't quote me on this, but I seem to recall that after the movie flopped, Katzenberg might have tried to blame Aardman? It would not surprise me if Katzenberg tried blaming Aardman even though the film was made at Glendale rather than Bristol. The budget ballooned to $150m due to the retoolings and as a result it underperformed. I think he also saw Wallace and Gromit as a flop as its domestic gross was $56m but it made over $136m OS which for a film that cost $30m was profitable but not enough in the eyes of Katzenberg. Aardman wanted to make The Pirates! while they had the deal with DWA but were told there wasn't a market for them and ironically when they were developing Flushed Away, Pirates of the Caribbean. I get the feeling Katzenberg didn't trust Aardman to do their own thing which is strange considering they'd made Chicken Run to great acclaim as well as the various shorts. Edited January 27, 2015 by Jonwo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK007 Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 Wallace & Gromit is an excellent movie still though? Flushed Away, not so much. Didn't like it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tiki Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 On a side note, how did DreamWorks get the rights to The Croods from Aardman? Weren't they at one point working on that with John Cleese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonwo Posted January 27, 2015 Share Posted January 27, 2015 On a side note, how did DreamWorks get the rights to The Croods from Aardman? Weren't they at one point working on that with John Cleese? I think it was a joint project that was already in development but when they split the rights remained with DWA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melvin Frohike Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 (edited) Here is a new (actually updated) article that sums up what has been going on and adds a few bits: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/how-dreamworks-animation-can-claw-767789 It's interesting how when Katzenberg was at Disney, he was so into making "Disney" animated movies, but after he left he seemed to become obsessed with making stuff that was the antithesis to Disney. That was hardly an amicable split, and I bet that JK felt quite disillusioned about some things. Combine this with his own inclinations that he could indulge more in and those of PDI's filmmakers (who really got things rolling), it's not too surprising that he and DWA would do things differently. WDAS had a lot of success while he was the studio chief at Disney, although it was really them doing their thing, and maybe JK felt he had to do something different as counter-programming and/or to show them up. Earnestness and "heart" seem in short supply, which is part of why so many people's reaction to HTTYD1 was that it felt closer to a Pixar movie than a DreamWorks movie. For whatever reasons, JK seemed to give Dean DeBlois and Chris Sanders, who both came over from WDAS, more or less free rein to make the kind of movie they wanted to make, I believe. Maybe he fully trusts them, or maybe it's what they demanded when they joined DWA, given what happened between Sanders and John Lasseter with regard to American Dog (which later became Bolt under different directors). He was a meddler in his Disney days, but he didn't seem to be obsessed with making aggressively in-your-face stuff. They all meddle , but my understanding is that he rarely absolutely put his foot down about things, except maybe toward his last days at Disney. Though obviously, they won't be the whole story - DisneyWar mentions Katzenberg helping Pixar through early story problems on Toy Story by suggesting they watch The Defiant Ones and 48 Hrs., but says nothing about the later "Black Friday," which was, from what I've read, caused in part by them following prior story notes by Disney execs to make the film "edgy." Some accounts (I think Steve Jobs' biography is one of them) say the main person at Disney pushing the "edgy" line was Katzenberg. Pixar was struggling early on because none of the principals had shepherded a full-length feature through story development, but for one thing Joe Ranft (rest his soul), who had worked on a number of projects including the Disney Renaissance features, came in and helped get them on the right track, developing Pixar's working process with John Lasseter, Andrew Stanton, and others, and then joining Pixar on a permanent basis. JK's interference wasn't helping at all--in fact, it was making things worse. Toy Story was another, Katzenberg wanted it to be edgy and Pixar listened to him and the first test screening was a disaster and he asked Tom Schumacher who was head of animation why the film had turned out so badly, in which Schumacher replied. 'Because it's not their movie anymore.' That was some pretty valuable and timely insight, I have to say. Edited January 29, 2015 by Melvin Frohike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BK007 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 What's the point of promoting Arnold and Soria when they are basically letting Boss Baby, Trolls and Captain Underpants go ahead? BOO and the Indian and Australian musicals have the most potential to appeal cross-culture and make money. Boss Baby and CU might appeal to Americans, might, and no one else. The slate is stale. And if they really are having problems with originality, might as well, take more time to figure out what to put out in 2016/7/8 and leave Puss 2 and Mad 4 on schedule because OS will ensure those franchises do well. Yeah, it'll be 5 sequels, but I don't think anyone cares about what Dreamworks makes these days or that the public really know who makes what, as long as they keep up HTTYD2 quality, they will all definitely do decently and that's what DWA needs right now is it not? No point in investing in BB and CU which sound like awful properties just for the sake of having an original film. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Tiki Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 The Q4 earnings report is out for DreamWorks: http://variety.com/2015/biz/news/dreamworks-animation-posts-247-7-million-loss-after-penguins-flop-company-restructuring-1201440532/ All in all it's mostly losses: -$57.1 million combined losses from Penguins of Madagascar and Mr. Peabody and Sherman -$54.6 million to shut down PDI and compensate laid off employees -$155.5 million write off for cancelled films Mumbai Musical and B.O.O. On the plus side, their merchandise sales were up this quarter (I'm guessing due to Christmas). Home comes out in a month, so I guess we'll have to see how that does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadAtGender Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 That's some pretty massive sunk costs for Mumbai and BOO. Since BOO was supposed to come out this year, it was probably the bulk of that cost, too. I wonder what the record is for the most spent on a film that never got made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Futurist Posted February 24, 2015 Share Posted February 24, 2015 Ouch ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonwo Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 DWA having to sell and then lease back their studio in Glendale shows how bad their financial woes are. Katzenberg must on his last chance to save the studio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJohn Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 I am pretty sure they are gonna sink in about 1 month. Either that or they already included Home's bombage in 2014's losses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
