Dreamworks Animation: What Went Wrong?

[Clef Ment]

I think the disappointing performance of Penguins of Madagascar is making DreamWorks take a second look on the whole franchise, wondering if that well has gone dry.

 

Yes but it is just a spin-off, the third Madagascar made $750M worldwide.

[Jonwo]

DWA's budgets are still high for what is an independent studio. The other studios aside from WDAS and Pixar are making their films for under $100m which mean they can still make a profit from a lower potential gross and make even an bigger profit when its a bit hit.

I think Katzenberg should try and focus on the films rather than over expand into theme parks, malls, live entertainment, television etc its his obsession of trying to make DWA into Disney 2.0 is what is partly the root of the problem

[Chriss]

DWA's budgets are still high for what is an independent studio. The other studios aside from WDAS and Pixar are making their films for under $100m which mean they can still make a profit from a lower potential gross and make even an bigger profit when its a bit hit.

 

What are you talking about? Pixar hasn't had a production budget under 100m since the Incredibles. While WDAS hasn't had a production budget under 100m since Brother Bear's (apparant) 90m production budget. Otherwise it was since Lilo & Stitch' 80m production budget. That's all even without the huge marketing costs.

[kkccoo]

I watched several DW animation movies: Shrek 1, 2, Panda 1,2, Madagscar 1 2 3, Rise of the Guardian, haven't watched Dragon series yet. One big problem I have with DW animation movies is that they are full of fart jokes, sometimes disgusting and uncomfortable. For example, Shrek has many of them. Also 

 

the next movie "Home" trailer has "urine-drinking" gags

[pepsa]

It's stupid of them to cancel Madgascar 4, they would easly made their money back and have some good profits...

And I think dreamwork made good animation, I like HTTYD the first 2 shrek movies, rise of the guardians and KFP. 

[Jonwo]

What are you talking about? Pixar hasn't had a production budget under 100m since the Incredibles. While WDAS hasn't had a production budget under 100m since Brother Bear's (apparant) 90m production budget. Otherwise it was since Lilo & Stitch' 80m production budget. That's all even without the huge marketing costs.

 

That why I said aside from WDAS and Pixar.

[Melvin Frohike]

Dreamworks really should lower their films' budget.

That's what the layoffs are about, in part.

 

I read Ed Catmull once said that even if the animation is incomplete, as long as the story resonates, audience won't even notice that there's something wrong with the animation and they'll still love the movie.

That rings true to me, but doesn't explain Pixar's bloated budgets in recent years, especially considering that individual wages have been artificially suppressed.

 

 

Seriously, not even Disney can deliver at the pace Dreamworks is trying.

That's right, historically WDAS have never been able to sustain, for very long, an average release rate higher than about one movie per year, and neither have Pixar. A pipeline of 4-5 movies in development/production at once seems to be some kind of "structural" limit of the manner in which they work.

 

Perhaps if they hadn't so willingly colluded with Ed Catmull to suppress animator wages, they might've had more creative people and ideas around to play with.

For all we know, they may have better ideas--the problem starts at the top with the ideas that are getting the green light.

 

I'm glad that they are closing down PDI if they had to choose one, because that kind of blocky character animation present in Madagascar movies and the ugly ones in Puss in Boots were the ones I least liked.

For me it's not just the designs but the character animation, which often has a kind of "uncanny valley" effect. The animation done at DWA's Glendale studio is closer to the Disney tradition.

 

I'm sure Rise of the Guardians came out from there too?

Rise of the Guardians was a DWA (Glendale) production.

But my whole argument in the first place was that it's nearly impossible for a studio to put out something that high caliber everytime when you have 2-3 animated films releasing a year. The size of the staff would have to be massive to make sure that each film gets the required attention to detail and effort put in.

While I agree with what you're saying in the broadest terms, the problem is not having enough good filmmakers (who each have to spend so much time on these movies).

 

Animation is an exhausting process, three films a year for one studio is a ridiculous idea to start with. At least some people in the studio are being ran ragged by that turnout. Not to mention a studio with that many people and teams is far harder to manage and ensure quality than a normal sized one. We will see it with Pixar and WDAS if they adopt the multiple releases every year, I guarantee it. In fact, we'll probably see it this year already with Pixar.

While I agree with you in principle, as I said, maybe this would not be the best example because one of the releases this year was delayed from last year, when Pixar had no release. They have staffed up to increase their production rate, to some degree, but thus far have not actually been able to increase it (they're still averaging about one movie per year). If one or both of their movies this year fall(s) flat creatively (and possibly at the box office), then it would not be because they happened to release two movies in the same year (in fact, they took more time to try to make one of them better).

 

 

I think Katzenberg should try and focus on the films rather than over expand into theme parks, malls, live entertainment, television etc its his obsession of trying to make DWA into Disney 2.0 is what is partly the root of the problem

But in general it is risky to the extreme to depend on a single source of revenue and, if they're lucky, profit. Diversification is an important way for companies to increase their odds of succeeding or even just surviving long enough to have a chance of succeeding. In fact, DWA has recently partially cashed in one of their successful side businesses to help make up for shortfalls in their core business.

[forg]

I feel really bad for DWA, especially the laid off workers. 

[Chriss]

That why I said aside from WDAS and Pixar.

Sorry, I misread that! Nah, now your statement seems fine! Cheers

[BK007]

I actually think DWAs branding of their movie franchises into TV is a major reason of why their franchise films are doing badly.

 

I hope they actually make money off the series because now all three of Kung Fu Panda, How to Train Your Dragon and Penguins have disappointed. The former two having great WOM, great DVD sales and great goodwill. Why pay for something you can get for "free"? Penguins, I predicted that after Dragon 2 disappointed as well. It just cannot be a coincidence, plus it has some anecdotal proof with some people having reported the parents telling the kids exactly that. 

 

The TV series are just not up to the quality of the cinema release. Perhaps story-wise maybe, I'm not sure, but animation, no, and perhaps being bombarded by that week in, week out would convince parents that it's more like the Nut Job than the old HTTYD or other movies out. 

 

Secondly, they won't do any better employing the Boss Baby director to direct their film. Have you seen his awful resume? It's this kind of mistakes that are easily made that wrecks their films, but then again, the idea is also awful, so I couldn't care less about this project. Please scrap it. 

[theultimatebiu]

I agree that DWA have cheapened their brands by making them into 2nd rate kid shows. It is overkill and makes it less appealing to see these characters on the big screen. Penguins was a disappointment because we have already seen it all over TV and the quality was not good.

[Melvin Frohike]

I actually think DWAs branding of their movie franchises into TV is a major reason of why their franchise films are doing badly.

Yes, this theory has gained credibility with every release.

 

I hope they actually make money off the series because now all three of Kung Fu Panda, How to Train Your Dragon and Penguins have disappointed. The former two having great WOM, great DVD sales and great goodwill. Why pay for something you can get for "free"? Penguins, I predicted that after Dragon 2 disappointed as well. It just cannot be a coincidence, plus it has some anecdotal proof with some people having reported the parents telling the kids exactly that.

I hope they make good money off video rentals, too, because that's what people are waiting for in regard to the movies specifically, and the short waits these days for most movies only encourage them to bypass the cinema altogether. I think that this actually lends impetous to a vicious cycle between declining attendance and higher ticket prices.

 

The TV series are just not up to the quality of the cinema release. Perhaps story-wise maybe, I'm not sure, but animation, no, and perhaps being bombarded by that week in, week out would convince parents that it's more like the Nut Job than the old HTTYD or other movies out.

For the most part, I think it's the fact that the audience is bombarded by the characters' schtick--at least this is what I get from what I've seen of the Kung Fu Panda and Penguins series.

[TServo2049]

And often, the TV versions are not written as well. They don't involve the principal story people from the features division, and they sometimes have different people doing the voices too.

Disney may have diluted their film brands with garbage sequels and TV series back in the Eisner era, but they never tried to then follow those up with a big-budget theatrical sequel. And people may complain about the Cars franchise, but good grief, imagine if it were DWA...

I understand the appeal of more adventures in between (with Dragons, for example), and the Dragons franchise makes great use of all of Nico Marlet's unused designs from HTTYD1's pre-production period, but...they are still a step below the films in every regard, and make them seem less special.

Though I have to correct on Kung Fu Panda: the TV series started six months AFTER KFP2, so it couldn't have contributed to KFP2's drop from the original. (There was a holiday special, at least those specials were done by the feature team, though not the same directors or writers. The animation quality was better than TV and the original voices all returned.)

Edited January 26, 2015 by TServo2049

[Melvin Frohike]

Though I have to correct on Kung Fu Panda: the TV series started six months AFTER KFP2, so it couldn't have contributed to KFP2's drop from the original.

Oh, thanks for that (should have checked, even though I was going along with an argument). In any case, I'm pretty sure that it would have made things worse to some degree, considering what has happened with the other franchises, and of course there is the upcoming Kung Fu Panda 3 to consider.

[TServo2049]

HTTYD2 still made a bit more than KFP2 even with two seasons of a TV series.

I wonder if Penguins was hit much, much harder because it's a "comedy antics" film, the trailer was sold on gags and antics, and there were no real stakes evident from those trailers.

In contrast to DWA, Universal/Illumination are being extremely smart with the Minions, because other than little shorts on the movie DVDs, and the theme park ride and other ancillary stuff, the only way to see more Minions is to go to the theater when the movie comes out. Again, you may think they're overexposed, but as with Cars, imagine if DWA had them...

Edited January 26, 2015 by TServo2049

[BK007]

DWA runs their franchises to the ground.

 

I just want Dragon 3 and they can close for good. Stupid business plan but that's J-Katz for you.

 

Did Panda series really start after? 

 

Well, then it really still is the #1 WTF disappointment. Something must have contributed to that movie's non-event status.

 

Perhaps they didn't see where a sequel would go, though the marketing was shit from what I remember.

 

I did like the Dragon 2 trailers despite the reveal of the mum which I was pissed at.

[Melvin Frohike]

HTTYD2 still made a bit more than KFP2 even with two seasons of a TV series.

Well, of course there are many other factors involved, including the incredible amount of hype for HTTYD 2 (largely deserved, don't get me wrong)--even though the hype didn't result in $300+ million DOM and $1+ billion WW, it still probably counted for some of the movie's gross (unless it's just the specific people who post on the Internet ).

 

I wonder if Penguins was hit much, much harder because it's a "comedy antics" film, the trailer was sold on gags and antics, and there were no real stakes evident from those trailers.

Could be, in the general sense that the movie might have been perceived as being nothing more than an extended episode of the series. That said, it has an origin story, and the trailer seemed to get very good reactions as opposed to "Yawn, more of the same." In this light, it's still a little perplexing that the movie bombed this hard in the DOM market. Perhaps the theory that the Penguins themselves are only popular in small doses as comic relief characters is the dominant factor, although fatigue/overexposure from their TV series still seems to be a contributing factor.

[MovieMan89]

DWA runs their franchises to the ground.

 

I just want Dragon 3 and they can close for good. Stupid business plan but that's J-Katz for you.

 

Did Panda series really start after? 

 

Well, then it really still is the #1 WTF disappointment. Something must have contributed to that movie's non-event status.

 

Perhaps they didn't see where a sequel would go, though the marketing was shit from what I remember.

 

I did like the Dragon 2 trailers despite the reveal of the mum which I was pissed at.

I remember the BOM weekend report for KFP2 highlighting that the female audience just didn't show up even though they did for KFP1. So apparently girls were not big fans of KFP1 and therefore KFP2 was of little interest to them. The female demo tends to be the most important of all for box office success.

[sabrecmc]

I remember the BOM weekend report for KFP2 highlighting that the female audience just didn't show up even though they did for KFP1. So apparently girls were not big fans of KFP1 and therefore KFP2 was of little interest to them. The female demo tends to be the most important of all for box office success.

I think this helps explain a lot of the success of Frozen.  Seriously, moms are the ones that often make these decisions for the family.  With KFP1, I remember Angelina Jolie's role being highlighted, but when I saw it, it was mostly just the Jack Black guy.  I'm sorry, but his whole schtick, to most moms that I know anyway, is just annoying as all get out and not funny at all.  He comes across as a giant man-child, and really, we have actual children to raise.  Not. Funny. No way I would have sat through another round of that.  Luckily, my daughter had no interest in it either.  So, that's my explanation for KFP2.  I liked Dragon, though.  My daughter did not, and in retrospect, it was pretty "boy-ish" whatever that means.  Last year, it pretty much meant anything not Frozen, at least as far as she was concerned.  She flat out refused to see Dragon 2.  I'm going to try to sneak Robotech in on her at some point and just tell her it is part of Star Wars(which she loves, thank God).  I have hope for her yet.

[Rudolf]

To keep interest for franchise alive (and make some money), studios should produce animated TV-series using secondary characters and the setting of those worlds. May once in a while they could have one of the main characters visit in an episode, just to fire up the interest. Qualitywise the difference should not be too big, but with everything already produced for the theatrical releases, that should not be too expensive. Of course you could not create a spin off with these characters, unless the demand is overwhelming. Maybe DWA misjudged all that. But it still could have worked, if their cost were not that high.