Thursday Numbers (Not the weekend thread) SS (1.67 Deadline)

[ZattMurdock]

34 minutes ago, UrosepsisFace said:

Let's put our critical-thinking caps on everybody. Civil War and Suicide Squad were success with good legs. The multiplier sucks? Get over it. Both were front-loaded for a reason...the giant friggin fan base that were frothing at their mouths to see it opening weekend. We've seen this with franchises before, and it's going to become more prevalent. Super-hero movies draw in their main audience right from the start. We can't say Suicide Squad should act like other original IPs because the fans treated it like a sequel or remake. Just look at the trailer views topping 69 million. I don't think you can call a 133m opening some new pad that people just became really hyped about. More likely it indicates the large built-in fan base. Imagine if Suicide Squad had the normal OW of a new property? Wouldn't we expect something more like 75m? Then when it hit 300m+ we'd say it had great legs. Instead, it was frontloaded, because that's what these movies do. Civil War had a giant 190m and showed growth from the previous Cap film, and even if you want to classify it as the third Avenger film, it still crossed over 400m and was a giant success. Can't we just admit, both studio franchises can coexist and succeed at the same time? Whether one does better or not (and obviously Marvel is doing better), doesn't mater as long as both are pleasing a large audience? If these two movies are indicative of bad super-hero performances, then every other genre or intellectual property is eager to achieve such failure.

I love Suicide Squad. I think Captain America: Civil War will go out in history as The Empire Strikes Back of superhero films, I think it's downright flawless and I fear that Marvel will never be able to reach that kind of level again of quality. Do I think that Marvel will blow people's minds with Infinity War? Hell yes, we are pretty much in uncharted territory when it comes to the MCU, it's like Star Wars instead of go out after Return of the Jedi literally never stopped. Marvel will probably outdo themselves in my eyes just like they did between The Avengers and Civil War, I'm actually counting on them to put my fears aside. With that said, I think that the price that the DC movies are paying with the critic reception is not near as bad as what is happening with Fox superhero films other than Deadpool. I see potential for growth in the DCEU unlike I see it in the Singerverse, and that's something that literally no one talks about because they are just... there. Right now, my opinion is that Marvel Studios and WB can and will coexist, I feel that the potential for Sony's Spider-Man under the Marvel Studios guidance is insane and I'm more than stoked for ALL their films except anything Snyder for obvious reasons but... has anyone stopped to think about what Fox actually has?

 

They have... Deadpool. Which is amazing and awesome, and I can't wait to see more. But what else? Who cares about Hugh Jackman as Wolverine anymore? Who cares about what the hell New Mutants will be? Who cares about another Fantastic Four reboot? Who cares about Singer going for the Phoenix saga again? The box office clearly shows that the studio struggling with their superhero films is in fact Fox, not Disney or WB. Besides, all the other tentpoles they tried to launch other than Deadpool failed miserably. So Fox has.... Deadpool and Avatar. And I do think Avatar will be big, but I'm not even sure if it'll be Avengers big, let alone The Force Awakens big. Why? It's a different playground. The crowd that went crazy for Avatar is not that different than the one that went nuts for Alice in the fucking Wonderland. And look how that sequel went. Yes, Cameron has a solid fanbase. But same could be said about Spielberg years ago. My point is: 

 

Reboot the X-Men, Fox. Bring the Duster Brothers in, get a deal with Marvel Studios since their new head has a good relationship with the Marvel guys. Be smart. 

[lupinw45]

I thought Winter Soldier was a better film than Civil War. I was kind of bored with the first 45 minutes of CW.

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, lupinw45 said:

I thought Winter Soldier was a better film than Civil War. I was kind of bored with the first 45 minutes of CW.

I love Winter Soldier, but I crave for the day that the DCEU will be able to come up with something as crazy as Captain America: Civil War was. It's the conclusion of a string of stories throughout several films and it works in every possible level to me. I love The Winter Soldier, but I see Civil War as something that will be celebrated even more than The Avengers or The Winter Soldier as the years go by. 

[ecstasy]

43 minutes ago, lupinw45 said:

I thought Winter Soldier was a better film than Civil War. I was kind of bored with the first 45 minutes of CW.

It was a better film.

[lupinw45]

45 minutes ago, iJackSparrow said:

I love Winter Soldier, but I crave for the day that the DCEU will be able to come up with something as crazy as Captain America: Civil War was. It's the conclusion of a string of stories throughout several films and it works in every possible level to me. I love The Winter Soldier, but I see Civil War as something that will be celebrated even more than The Avengers or The Winter Soldier as the years go by. 

I don't know about that. All my friends hated CW more than me. I know that's a drop in the bucket, but maybe that is why the legs were so bad. No rewatchability.

[ZattMurdock]

39 minutes ago, lupinw45 said:

I don't know about that. All my friends hated CW more than me. I know that's a drop in the bucket, but maybe that is why the legs were so bad. No rewatchability.

I've watched 10 times on theaters. The rewatchbility to me is off the charts. And all my friends say that it's the best of the Marvel Studios films, and I'm talking non comic book nerds here. Let's see how history tells that story. 

Edited August 27, 2016 by iJackSparrow

[Emerald kikyou]

winter soldier is >>>>> civil war, and it is the number 1 Marvel movie for me till this day.

[The Panda]

9 hours ago, John Marston said:

 

 

 

Captain America Civil War also dropped 50% three weekends in a row

 

We were talking about SS?  Nobody was even mentioning CW (which btw also had bad legs)

[FilmBuff]

1 hour ago, lupinw45 said:

I don't know about that. All my friends hated CW more than me. I know that's a drop in the bucket, but maybe that is why the legs were so bad. No rewatchability.

That doesn't really mean much to anyone. We all know you're much more a DC fan. 

[ecstasy]

57 minutes ago, Emerald kikyou said:

winter soldier is >>>>> civil war, and it is the number 1 Marvel movie for me till this day.

I love you.

[BluRayHiDef]

3 hours ago, iJackSparrow said:

I love Winter Soldier, but I crave for the day that the DCEU will be able to come up with something as crazy as Captain America: Civil War was. It's the conclusion of a string of stories throughout several films and it works in every possible level to me. I love The Winter Soldier, but I see Civil War as something that will be celebrated even more than The Avengers or The Winter Soldier as the years go by. 

 

I agree that Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a great film, but I consider The Avengers (2012) to be the best film in the MCU so far.

 

It's a classic and is superior to TWS because it's a full fledged comic-book movie; it features out-of-this-world characters, such as the Hulk and Loki, and fantastical elements, such as the Tesseract. On the other hand, The Winter Soldier could pass for a typical, albeit well-made, political and action thriller with a few sci-fi elements due to its grounded cast of characters and its grounded plot points; there's nothing fantastical or particularly comic-bookish about it.

Edited August 27, 2016 by BluRayHiDef

[WrathOfHan]

Just now, BluRayHiDef said:

 

I agree that Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a great film, but I consider The Avengers (2012) to be the best film in the MCU so far.

 

It's a classic and is superior to Civil War because it's a full fledged comic-book movie; it features out-of-this-world characters, such as the Hulk and Loki, and fantastical elements, such as the Tesseract. On the other hand, The Winter Soldier could pass for a typical, albeit well-made, political and action thriller with a few sci-fi elements due to its grounded cast of characters and its grounded plot points; there's nothing fantastical or particularly comic-bookish about it.

I thought you didn't see CW?  (Unless you pirated it)

Edited August 27, 2016 by WrathOfHan

[BluRayHiDef]

13 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

I thought you didn't see CW?  (Unless you pirated it)

 

I fixed my post; I meant to write The Winter Soldier; the context of my post, namely my assertion that it's not fantastical, proves that I meant TWS, since CW is indeed fantastical because it includes Spider-Man, Scarlet Witch, Vision, etc.

 

There's also my mention of TWS in the first paragraph.

Edited August 27, 2016 by BluRayHiDef

[Gopher]

5 hours ago, Baumer loves Oogieloves said:

 

But that means nothing.  This one opened 50% higher than GOTG and it will probably finish with 15-18 million of it.  One had more up front demand but the final tally is going to be pretty close.  Staying power or good legs doesn't necessarily mean much.  Some films have more up front demand than others.

 

2.25x vs 3.5x because one 'only' opened to 100m instead of 135? You know that's crazy, baum. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 hour ago, BluRayHiDef said:

 

I agree that Captain America: The Winter Soldier is a great film, but I consider The Avengers (2012) to be the best film in the MCU so far.

 

It's a classic and is superior to TWS because it's a full fledged comic-book movie; it features out-of-this-world characters, such as the Hulk and Loki, and fantastical elements, such as the Tesseract. On the other hand, The Winter Soldier could pass for a typical, albeit well-made, political and action thriller with a few sci-fi elements due to its grounded cast of characters and its grounded plot points; there's nothing fantastical or particularly comic-bookish about it.

 

I understand people that think this, just like I understand people that say that The Winter Soldier is better. To me, The Avengers is the MCU equivalent of Star Wars, Civil War and The Winter Soldier are both like The Empire Strikes Back and Age of Ultron is... Revenge of the Sith. My MCU ranking so far:

 

1. Captain America: Civil War

2. The Avengers

3. Captain America: The Winter Soldier

4. Iron Man

5. Guardians of the Galaxy

6. Captain America: The First Avenger

7. Iron Man 3

8. Ant-Man

9. Thor

10. The Avengers: Age of Ultron

11. Thor: The Dark World

12. Iron Man 2

13. The Incredible Hulk

 

Star Wars, for comparison:

 

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. The Force Awakens

3. A New Hope

4. Return of the Jedi

5. Revenge of the Sith

6. The Phantom Menace

7. Attack of the Clones

[lupinw45]

2 hours ago, FilmBuff said:

That doesn't really mean much to anyone. We all know you're much more a DC fan. 

 

I actually grew up with Marvel. Not too keen on the Avengers, but I love Spider-Man, X-Men, New Warriors, and Hulk. They'll always have a special place in my heart, even though I prefer DC's catalog of characters.

 

DC just has a deeper catalog of mystics/mages, speedsters, street levelers, and cosmics.

[UrosepsisFace]

7 hours ago, iJackSparrow said:

They have... Deadpool. Which is amazing and awesome, and I can't wait to see more. But what else? Who cares about Hugh Jackman as Wolverine anymore? Who cares about what the hell New Mutants will be? Who cares about another Fantastic Four reboot? Who cares about Singer going for the Phoenix saga again? The box office clearly shows that the studio struggling with their superhero films is in fact Fox, not Disney or WB. Besides, all the other tentpoles they tried to launch other than Deadpool failed miserably. So Fox has.... Deadpool and Avatar. And I do think Avatar will be big, but I'm not even sure if it'll be Avengers big, let alone The Force Awakens big. Why? It's a different playground. The crowd that went crazy for Avatar is not that different than the one that went nuts for Alice in the fucking Wonderland. And look how that sequel went. Yes, Cameron has a solid fanbase. But same could be said about Spielberg years ago. My point is: 

 

Reboot the X-Men, Fox. Bring the Duster Brothers in, get a deal with Marvel Studios since their new head has a good relationship with the Marvel guys. Be smart. 

 

I think Fox can continue to surprise, though. Kingsman, even though very different from its source material, was a better movie than Deadpool in my opinion. So was First Class. Here's the thing about New Mutants, and since I'm feeling a lot of comic-fan vibes from you, there was possibly a phase in your life in which the teen super-heroes were your favorites. That could've been the original X-Men and Spider-Man, or maybe Teen Titans, or maybe New Warriors, Gen 13, Young Justice, Runaways, or  Young Avengers. Some of these titles were far more popular than their adult counterparts. Why? People love the potential for younger characters. We worship the young and beautiful. The MCU will begin tackling the YA super-hero appeal w/ Homecoming, but Fox will have the first Teen Team...which is actually the DCEU dropping the ball at being first-to, because Teen Titans would be far more recognizable.

[UrosepsisFace]

I was hoping for Civil War to be the ESB of the MCU. Time will tell in terms of whether this was the dark change-up, but imo, it fell short of adding extra weight and emotion to the universe. Maybe cut the "letter" and some of the jokes at the end and it would've been more effective. Imo, TWS is easily the top MCU film, and Iron-Man series after that. Civil War was an awesome display of action-choreography and visual effects, though. I'd say it's the pinnacle of those two technical aspects for any of these films.

[ZattMurdock]

Just now, UrosepsisFace said:

 

I think Fox can continue to surprise, though. Kingsman, even though very different from its source material, was a better movie than Deadpool in my opinion. So was First Class. Here's the thing about New Mutants, and since I'm feeling a lot of comic-fan vibes from you, there was possibly a phase in your life in which the teen super-heroes were your favorites. That could've been the original X-Men and Spider-Man, or maybe Teen Titans, or maybe New Warriors, Gen 13, Young Justice, Runaways, or  Young Avengers. Some of these titles were far more popular than their adult counterparts. Why? People love the potential for younger characters. We worship the young and beautiful. The MCU will begin tackling the YA super-hero appeal w/ Homecoming, but Fox will have the first Teen Team...which is actually the DCEU dropping the ball at being first-to, because Teen Titans would be far more recognizable.

 

The problem is that this ISN'T the first time that Fox has the opportunity of having a young team. Hell, look at Apocalypse and how well that went. The problem with Singerverse is that it's holding EVERYONE back, New Mutants included. Deadpool was exciting and now, and regardless your personal feelings about the film, both critics and audiences love that film to death, myself included. And yeah I was a HUGE X-Men, Teen Titans, New Warriors, Gen 13 and Runaways fan. Young Justice came a little late, but I loved the Geoff Johns run in Titans too, and I wasn't a teenager anymore. My opinion is that the X-Men can be bigger than BOTH The Avengers and Justice League if done right. But in order for that to happen, the Singerverse needs to die. Deadpool doesn't need the Singerverse, it's the other way around. I know some vocal fans of that franchise post here, maybe you are even one, but Singerverse isn't an asset to the X-Men, it's the other way around. Nothing would make me happier than see ALL the X-Men from Deadpool's timeline. If that got green lighted and it was in the MCU, I'd go literally insane. I just want the Singerverse to end with whatever Wolverine 3 and get the X-Men in the MCU in a similar deal than Sony has with Marvel for Phase 4. Hell, bring Jackman for the Infinity War Pt. 2 and have him dying a hero's death to get rebooted inside that universe. Give me a Spider-Man / Deadpool team-up with a hell lot of bleeps. 

 

Also, give me Teen Titans. And making Runaways a fucking Hulu TV show is a fucking mistake, so thank you for nothing, Loeb. 

[ZattMurdock]

19 minutes ago, UrosepsisFace said:

I was hoping for Civil War to be the ESB of the MCU. Time will tell in terms of whether this was the dark change-up, but imo, it fell short of adding extra weight and emotion to the universe. Maybe cut the "letter" and some of the jokes at the end and it would've been more effective. Imo, TWS is easily the top MCU film, and Iron-Man series after that. Civil War was an awesome display of action-choreography and visual effects, though. I'd say it's the pinnacle of those two technical aspects for any of these films.

It's not just that. There are depths on that film in so many levels that people are barely scratching the surface. This Friday the media was covering that the Russo Brothers said that Cap wasn't Cap anymore, when to anyone with a basic understanding of the meaning that scene at the end represented to both Steve, Tony and the Avengers. I find it incredible in so many levels that I actually think that it's a better film than The Empire Strikes Back itself. I don't think I'm alone in this although a lot of people like The Winter Soldier better. Time will tell tho. 

 

I'm expecting to see Steve using a cinematic version of this costume when we see him next in Infinity War:

 

 

 

Made by T'Challa and I bet it'll look amazing. 

 

Anyways, it's finally time for me to play this:

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2016 by iJackSparrow