KILLERS OF THE FLOWER MOON | 10.20.2023 | Paramount | current gross: $67,826,648

[dudalb]

On 9/7/2023 at 2:35 PM, tonytr87 said:

 

Scorsese has one Oscar. 

He has won numerous other awards...but 'The Departed" remains his only best director Oscar.'

 

Scorsese was, to repeat, the most overdue Oscar in History for a director. The Man won the AFI Lifetime Ahciement Award in 1997...tprobably the most prestigous award you can get..but it was still antoher ten years before he got his Oscar.

[Celedhring]

Personally, I believe that if the early Cannes hype is confirmed, Scorsese will win. He's 80 and has repeatedly talked about how he feels time's running out on him, so I feel the Academy would like to reward him, feeling that Nolan will have many more chances.

[JustLurking]

The academy already "recognised" Scorsese with a win for The Departed so I wouldn't be surprised if they simply feel they don't owe him anything at this point, and they honestly just went back to snubbing him right after (not a single nomination for either Shutter Island or Silence other than cinematography for the latter for instance; I remember being pretty upset at the lack of acknowledgement for Silence myself, too, lol). Plenty of incredible directors retired or died never having won an oscar, so I don't think the academy feels that strongly about giving Scorsese another award before he dies since they already did once.

 

At the same time Oppenheimer will come in extremely hot off an astonishing BO run and we've seen what this can do for a film with BoRap, a film that critics did not even like  yet somehow it snuck into 5 nominations and walked away winning 4 of them. This is probably the greatest combination of oscar bait+loved by critics+huge BO they've had in ages, so if they don't reward it it will almost feel like a declaration that they simply won't reward a blockbuster with this recognition.

 

This is the academy we're talking about though, so wouldn't be surprised if they go another direction entirely and just have, idk, The Holdovers winning, lol. That seems like the kind of upbeat film they tend to like a lot.

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

12 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

The academy already "recognised" Scorsese with a win for The Departed so I wouldn't be surprised if they simply feel they don't owe him anything at this point, and they honestly just went back to snubbing him right after

Post The Departed, he made 5 movies and 3 of them were both nominated for Director and Picture lol. His upcoming 6th movie will also receive those nominations

 

The idea they went back to "snubbing" him is categorically false! Shutter Island was delayed from fall 2009 to early 2010 because it was not an awards film. It's a genre and commercial play and critically one of his more lower rated films. Silence could have been an Oscar contender but it was his most "inaccessible" film in quite some time and suffered from a wonky release strategy. Late December with a trailer premiere in November. Paramount also had Arrival and Fences to campaign.

 

[WorkingonaName]

Brap would have won if it wasn't for Singer IMO.

[JustLurking]

52 minutes ago, BestPicturePlutoNash said:

Post The Departed, he made 5 movies and 3 of them were both nominated for Director and Picture lol. His upcoming 6th movie will also receive those nominations

 

The idea they went back to "snubbing" him is categorically false! Shutter Island was delayed from fall 2009 to early 2010 because it was not an awards film. It's a genre and commercial play and critically one of his more lower rated films. Silence could have been an Oscar contender but it was his most "inaccessible" film in quite some time and suffered from a wonky release strategy. Late December with a trailer premiere in November. Paramount also had Arrival and Fences to campaign.

 

You're right, I completely forgot about Hugo so remembered it being a lot more of a mixed bag!

[DAJK]

Here's the thing, we're talking about this vs Oppenheimer as if Oppenheimer is going to be the only movie out of these two that is going to have an exceptional box office run.

 

At the same time though, if KOTFM has a Revenant-type run at the BO I could see the competition becoming a lot closer. 

 

Spoiler

Now that being said, this does not have the same "hook" as The Revenant, it is a more "American" story than Revenant (at least in terms of the marketing) seems less action-packed, etc. I'm still predicting an Oppenheimer win.

 

[TomThomas]

5 hours ago, BestPicturePlutoNash said:

It's a genre and commercial play and critically one of his more lower rated films.

And? Critics have nothing to do with The Academy, they are closer to audiences in their tastes. Shutter Island while didn't have stellar critics reception was incredibly well received by audiences and remains one of more popular Dicaprio/Scorsese collaborations. I think it would've been recognized if it was released closer to fall or winter, release date killed its chances.

Edited September 9, 2023 by TomThomas

[4815162342]

8 minutes ago, DAJK said:

Here's the thing, we're talking about this vs Oppenheimer as if Oppenheimer is going to be the only movie out of these two that is going to have an exceptional box office run.

 

At the same time though, if KOTFM has a Revenant-type run at the BO I could see the competition becoming a lot closer. 

 

  Hide contents

Now that being said, this does not have the same "hook" as The Revenant, it is a more "American" story than Revenant (at least in terms of the marketing) seems less action-packed, etc. I'm still predicting an Oppenheimer win.

 

 

Saying The Revenant is a less American story is an odd take considering that myths of Man vs Wilderness have long been fundamental parts of American storytelling and actual history. The Revenant may have some particular style to it from its director but Hugh Glass's take (albeit altered for the film) is a very American frontier story

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

4 hours ago, TomThomas said:

And? Critics have nothing to do with The Academy, they are closer to audiences in their tastes. Shutter Island while didn't have stellar critics reception was incredibly well received by audiences and remains one of more popular Dicaprio/Scorsese collaborations. I think it would've been recognized if it was released closer to fall or winter, release date killed its chances.

no it wouldn't have. especially in the year of 2009. theres no comparable genre contender like that. It also had a C+ cinemascore

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

4 hours ago, DAJK said:

Here's the thing, we're talking about this vs Oppenheimer as if Oppenheimer is going to be the only movie out of these two that is going to have an exceptional box office run.

 

At the same time though, if KOTFM has a Revenant-type run at the BO I could see the competition becoming a lot closer. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Now that being said, this does not have the same "hook" as The Revenant, it is a more "American" story than Revenant (at least in terms of the marketing) seems less action-packed, etc. I'm still predicting an Oppenheimer win.

 

poor things will beat oppenheimer, probably

[DAJK]

4 hours ago, 4815162342 said:

 

Saying The Revenant is a less American story is an odd take considering that myths of Man vs Wilderness have long been fundamental parts of American storytelling and actual history. The Revenant may have some particular style to it from its director but Hugh Glass's take (albeit altered for the film) is a very American frontier story

Yes, but they aren’t uniquely American. KOTFM seems to focus a lot on Indigenous relations and the ongoing consequences of colonialism and past injustices on these relationships between the colonial establishment and Indigenous people. It isn’t a “frontier epic” like The Revenant which, while yes the “frontier” is a very American story, it translates well and has currency around the world. 

[TomThomas]

6 hours ago, BestPicturePlutoNash said:

no it wouldn't have. especially in the year of 2009. theres no comparable genre contender like that. It also had a C+ cinemascore

Wolf Of Wall Street also had C+ Cinemascore, another beloved Dicario/Scorsese collaboration.

Edited September 10, 2023 by TomThomas

[4815162342]

9 hours ago, DAJK said:

Yes, but they aren’t uniquely American. KOTFM seems to focus a lot on Indigenous relations and the ongoing consequences of colonialism and past injustices on these relationships between the colonial establishment and Indigenous people. It isn’t a “frontier epic” like The Revenant which, while yes the “frontier” is a very American story, it translates well and has currency around the world. 

 

You said it's not "as American" a story which is only true if you consider a movie to be more "American" if it is necessarily more political. The content, setting, plotlines, background material, etc. of The Revenant are just as "American", it's simply telling a different kind of "American" story.

 

[DAJK]

1 hour ago, 4815162342 said:

 

You said it's not "as American" a story which is only true if you consider a movie to be more "American" if it is necessarily more political. The content, setting, plotlines, background material, etc. of The Revenant are just as "American", it's simply telling a different kind of "American" story.

 

I could change my wording then to a story that appeals more to Americans than global audiences.

 

Both are American-set, but one is more of an adventure, and the other is more political, steeped in American political and social history, which I don’t think translates as well as a frontier-based epic.

[BestPicturePlutoNash]

19 hours ago, TomThomas said:

Wolf Of Wall Street also had C+ Cinemascore, another beloved Dicario/Scorsese collaboration.

it was also a late-breaking holiday release with the best reviewed at the time performance from DiCaprio

[WrathOfHan]

When Nolan and Lanthimos have career best reviews for their films, I don't see Scorsese winning for something that doesn't crack the top 10 of his filmography depending who you ask. It's a similar narrative to The Fabelmans and Spielberg warranting a "legacy" win when the modern Academy very rarely does that anymore. Lily Gladstone is almost guaranteed to win which is more than most contenders hope for.

[Spidey Freak]

11 hours ago, WrathOfHan said:

When Nolan and Lanthimos have career best reviews for their films, I don't see Scorsese winning for something that doesn't crack the top 10 of his filmography depending who you ask.

 

And who's saying this exactly?

[Celedhring]

1 hour ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

And who's saying this exactly?

 

Variety, apparently:

 

https://variety.com/lists/best-martin-scorsese-movies-ranked/the-king-of-comedy-1982/

 

Incidentally Silence as #1 is quite the take, but that film has gone sadly under the radar. Imho one of Scorsese top 10 for sure.

[4815162342]

2 hours ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

And who's saying this exactly?

 

Han I suppose