Classic Conversation Thread

[filmlover]

Peter Scolari Dies: Emmy-Winning ‘Bosom Buddies’, ‘Newhart’, ‘Girls’ Actor Was 66 https://t.co/myjVflsQtT

— Deadline Hollywood (@DEADLINE) October 22, 2021

[Porthos]

38 minutes ago, CJ #BringBackSadAffleck said:

Let me sad affleck posts as well

 

As a person happy that Sad Affleck is back, gotta disagree with you there, CJ, as I think there is a big difference between a Sad Tennant and a Sad Affleck.  For example, I for one wouldn't feel comfortable giving a "Sad Affleck" to the news of the horrible tragedy last night.

 

(and we really don't need both, IMO)

Edited October 22, 2021 by Porthos

[Porthos]

Speaking of last night:

 

While I knew that "blanks" can be lethal, this is a good explanation on why/how they can be lethal:

 

Here’s How a Prop Gun Using Blanks Can Still Fire a Fatal Shot

 

Very informative article that goes in depth in to the situation.

[Plain Old Tele]

^^ also the problem was it was a live round. 

[Porthos]

Just now, Plain Old Tele said:

^^ also the problem was it was a live round. 

 

Didn't realize that was already established.

 

(FWIW, it was mentioned as a possibility in the article)

 

Just a horrible tragedy all around.

[dudalb]

1 hour ago, Porthos said:

Speaking of last night:

 

While I knew that "blanks" can be lethal, this is a good explanation on why/how they can be lethal:

 

Here’s How a Prop Gun Using Blanks Can Still Fire a Fatal Shot

 

Very informative article that goes in depth in to the situation.

I am a Civil War reenactor. One of things we stress in training is that blanks at lcose range can be very dangerous.

Our rule is never fire a weapon with a blank at anybody who is less then 20 feet away.

There seems to have bene some kind of total breakdwon in basic safety  here. I am sure this will be investigated.

Not sure much will come of the call to ban blanks from movie sets. In some cases not just practical. Point is this is the first time we have a death or serous injury from this in many yeara.

I sitll wonder how the hell Brandon Lee got killed. Standard procedure is for every gun on set to be examined by the armorer to be sure it is not loaded before filming begins. How the hell a live arm escaped detection is really puzzling in that case.

Ah, well, the guilds will see a throughy investigation will be made.

I suspect Baldwin is the innocent party; the people who should have been in charge of safety are the ones t blame.

[Plain Old Tele]

1 minute ago, dudalb said:

Not sure much will come of the call to ban blanks from movie sets. In some cases not just practical.

I dunno, I’m seeing everyone from directors to DPs to VFX people to producers saying VFX muzzle flashes are no big deal and they do them all the time. It’s cheaper, even, because safety protocols make it a very slow process to shoot gun action. It’s a pretty simple process, at this point. 

[dudalb]

53 minutes ago, Plain Old Tele said:

^^ also the problem was it was a live round. 

Jesus Christ, what the hell was a live round doing on a movie set?

And why was it not detected ? I though the film industry would have the same basic rule that my Civil War reenactment group does; Every firearem is inspected before a battle to be sure it is not loaded..You do not load your blank until ordered to do so by your unit commander.

That this appreantly happend with a black powder era weapon just make this more puzzling.  Checking them to be sure they are not loaded is simpler then doing so with a modern firearm.

[dudalb]

Just now, Plain Old Tele said:

I dunno, I’m seeing everyone from directors to DPs to VFX people to producers saying VFX muzzle flashes are no big deal and they do them all the time. It’s cheaper, even, because safety protocols make it a very slow process to shoot gun action. It’s a pretty simple process, at this point. 

Maybe for some scenes, but if you are doing a big battle scene it becomes more problematical.

of oourse I have my bias; My reenacmtent group had gone for 2o years without a serous injury from theuse of blanks.

it 's how the hell did a live round go undetected that puzzles me.

And the ignornace of firearems I see being displayed on many discussions on this is truly incredible.

[Plain Old Tele]

13 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Maybe for some scenes, but if you are doing a big battle scene it becomes more problematical.

If you have a big battle scene you probably have the budget to do it in post, and highly likely a lot of those shots would already be VFX shots for other reasons (background replacements, set extensions, cloning extras/crowds, etc).

[TwoMisfits]

This is bad...If it's true, manslaughter charges should be made...

 

“Corners were being cut—& they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” one person said. There were 2 misfires on the prop gun & 1 the previous week, they said, & “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

@MegJamesLAT

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

[Porthos]

4 minutes ago, TwoMisfits said:

This is bad...If it's true, manslaughter charges should be made...

 

“Corners were being cut—& they brought in nonunion people so they could continue shooting,” one person said. There were 2 misfires on the prop gun & 1 the previous week, they said, & “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

@MegJamesLAT

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/business/story/2021-10-22/alec-baldwin-rust-camera-crew-walked-off-set

 

tfw when one wants to give the sad, wtf, and disbelief reaction all simultaneously. 😡

[dudalb]

12 minutes ago, Porthos said:

 

tfw when one wants to give the sad, wtf, and disbelief reaction all simultaneously. 😡

Un freaking beleivable.

If an  non professional group like my reenactment group can rigourlsy enforce gun safety rules, you think a studio could.

Using not union labor stinks on ice, but .god, someone from the studio should have insisted on basic gun safety that any recreational shooting range would insist on.

Heads need to row over this.

[CJohn]

2 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

As a person happy that Sad Affleck is back, gotta disagree with you there, CJ, as I think there is a big difference between a Sad Tennant and a Sad Affleck.  For example, I for one wouldn't feel comfortable giving a "Sad Affleck" to the news of the horrible tragedy last night.

 

(and we really don't need both, IMO)

Oh, I don't want Sad Tennant to be gone.  I want both!

[dudalb]

God, still shocked that safety procedures were apparntly so lakcing on the "Rust" set. No freaking excuse ever.

I repeat , when a amateur (not full time) black powder reenactment group has much more  strict safety procedures then a allegedly professional  film unit, something is seriously wrong.

And no gun safety breifings????

Granted, you are going to have misfires when you use 19th century firearms. But when you have them repeatedly on the same gun, something is wrong.

I would want to know what they mean by Prop gun.

If it was a working replica then it was not a prop, it was real.

 

Edited October 22, 2021 by dudalb

[Porthos]

Some clarification on "live round"

 

Quote

In an email to its members, Local 44 of the International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees, a union that represents prop masters, said the shot that killed Hutchins and injured director Joel Souza on Thursday was “a live single round.”

 

“As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said.

 

A source close to union said Local 44 does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun being loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.

 

From LAT. 

 

Still utterly inexcusable if the stories about cutting corners by brining in non-union workers and having lax safety protocols are true.

[dudalb]

15 minutes ago, Porthos said:

Some clarification on "live round"

 

 

From LAT. 

 

Still utterly inexcusable if the stories about cutting corners by brining in non-union workers and having lax safety protocols are true.

Just un freaking beleivale. It is not exacly rocket science to check a gun..a 19th century weapon in particular..to see if it was loaded or not.

And I repat, if you can fira a gun it is not a prop. A replica,maybe, but not a propl

[eddyxx]

I keep seeing the studio cited as Rust Productions LLC. What is that? Some company they made out of their garage? Not surprised such a low budget operation was cutting corners.

[grim22]

13 minutes ago, eddyxx said:

I keep seeing the studio cited as Rust Productions LLC. What is that? Some company they made out of their garage? Not surprised such a low budget operation was cutting corners.

Most movies are not produced by a Disney, WB or Universal directly. They set up a shell production company for each individual movie which operates as its own business entity. This is so that all expenses, production costs, box office etc. is attributable to that legal entity, and that entity (which is basically part of the studio) pays the studio money for using their sets, for distributing and marketing their movie and so on under ridiculously inflated numbers.

 

This allows movie studios to show that movies have not made a profit (how can they with those distribution expenses and interest accrued on those expenses). In reality, its just an inflated amount of money being shuffled between different locations within the studio.

 

In this case, the movie is an indie, so they have set up the shell company already. They are just waiting to sell off the movie to a bigger studio/distributor.

[Porthos]

Oh, man....  

 

Quote

Warrant: Baldwin didn't know weapon contained live round

By MORGAN LEE, SUSAN MONTOYA and CEDAR ATTANASIO

Fri, October 22, 2021, 3:09 AM

 

 

SANTA FE, N.M. (AP) — An assistant director unwittingly handed Alec Baldwin a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show.

 

“Cold gun,” the assistant director announced, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

 

Instead, the gun was loaded with live rounds, and when Baldwin pulled the trigger Thursday on the set of a Western, he killed cinematographer Halyna Hutchins. Director Joel Souza, who was standing behind her, was wounded, the records said.

 

The Santa Fe County Sheriff's Office obtained the warrant Friday so investigators could document the scene at the ranch outside Santa Fe where the shooting took place. They sought Baldwin’s blood-stained costume for the film “Rust” as evidence, as well as the weapon that was fired, other prop guns and ammunition, and any footage that might exist.

 

The gun was one of three that the film's armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application.

 

It was unclear how many rounds were fired.

 

Halls did not immediately return phone and email messages seeking comment. The Associated Press was unable to contact Gutierrez, and several messages sent to production companies affiliated with the film were not immediately returned Friday.

The film’s script supervisor, Mamie Mitchell, said she was standing next to Hutchins when she was shot.

 

“I ran out and called 911 and said ‘Bring everybody, send everybody,’” Mitchell told The Associated Press. “This woman is gone at the beginning of her career. She was an extraordinary, rare, very rare woman.”

 

Mitchell said she and other crew members were attending a private memorial service Friday night in Santa Fe.

 

Baldwin described the killing as a “tragic accident."

 

“There are no words to convey my shock and sadness regarding the tragic accident that took the life of Halyna Hutchins, a wife, mother and deeply admired colleague of ours. I’m fully cooperating with the police investigation,” Baldwin wrote on Twitter. “My heart is broken for her husband, their son, and all who knew and loved Halyna.”

 

No immediate charges were filed, and sheriff’s spokesman Juan Rios said Baldwin was permitted to travel.

 

“He’s a free man,” Rios said.

 

Images of the 63-year-old actor — known for his roles in “30 Rock” and “The Hunt for Red October” and his impression of former President Donald Trump on “Saturday Night Live” — showed him distraught outside the sheriff’s office on Thursday.

 

Guns used in making movies are sometimes real weapons that can fire either bullets or blanks, which are gunpowder charges that produce a flash and a bang but no deadly projectile. Even blanks can eject hot gases and paper or plastic wadding from the barrel that can be lethal at close range. That proved to be the case in the death of an actor in 1984.

 

In another on-set accident in 1993, the actor Brandon Lee was killed after a bullet was left in a prop gun, and similar shootings have occurred involving stage weapons that were loaded with live rounds.

 

Gun-safety protocol on sets in the United States has improved since then, said Steven Hall, a veteran director of photography in Britain. But he said one of the riskiest positions to be in is behind the camera because that person is in the line of fire in scenes where an actor appears to point a gun at the audience.

 

Sheriff’s deputies responded about 2 p.m. to the movie set at the Bonanza Creek Ranch after 911 calls described a person being shot there, Rios said. The ranch has been used in dozens of films, including the recent Tom Hanks Western “News of the World.”

Hutchins, 42, worked as director of photography on the 2020 action film “Archenemy” starring Joe Manganiello. She was a 2015 graduate of the American Film Institute and was named a “rising star” by American Cinematographer in 2019.

 

“I’m so sad about losing Halyna. And so infuriated that this could happen on a set,” said “Archenemy” director Adam Egypt Mortimer on Twitter. “She was a brilliant talent who was absolutely committed to art and to film.”

 

Manganiello called Hutchins “an incredible talent” and “a great person” on his Instagram account. He said he was lucky to have worked with her.

 

After the shooting, production was halted on “Rust.” The movie is about a 13-year-old boy who is left to fend for himself and his younger brother following the death of their parents in 1880s Kansas, according to the Internet Movie Database website. The teen goes on the run with his long-estranged grandfather (played by Baldwin) after the boy is sentenced to hang for the accidental killing of a local rancher.

 

Lee, son of martial arts star Bruce Lee, died in 1993 after being hit by a .44-caliber slug while filming a death scene for the movie “The Crow.” The gun was supposed to have fired a blank, but an autopsy turned up a bullet lodged near his spine.

 

In 1984, actor Jon-Erik Hexum died after shooting himself in the head with a prop gun blank while pretending to play Russian roulette with a .44 Magnum on the set of the television series “Cover Up.”

 

Such shootings have also happened during historical reenactments. In 2015, an actor staging a historical gunfight in Tombstone, Arizona, was shot and wounded with a live round during a show that was supposed to use blanks.

 

In Hill City, South Dakota, a tourist town that recreates an Old West experience, three spectators were wounded in 2011 when a re-enactor fired real bullets instead of blanks.

___

Berry reported from Phoenix. Associated Press writers Jake Coyle and Jocelyn Noveck in New York; Lizzie Knight in London; Yuras Karmanau in Kyiv, Ukraine; Ryan Pearson in Los Angeles; and Gene Johnson in Seattle contributed to this report.

 

 

Edited October 23, 2021 by Porthos