***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** BLACK WIDOW SPOILER THREAD ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS*** ***SPOILERS***

[Cap]

2 minutes ago, charlie Jatinder said:

Couldn't they just stayed in Wakanda.

The line in Infinity War is literally "we spent two years together in bad hotel rooms." 

 

WHAT WASN'T SAID WAS IT WAS A SINGLE KING BED!!

 

[Menor the Destroyer]

1 hour ago, charlie Jatinder said:

I would have thought that Alexei is lying in  prison about facing Cap but he asked Nat as well. Now if he was that Black Cap (sorry I forget his name, and I am not gonna google that either to show just how forgettable it was), wouldn't he know its not Steve rogers. Anyhow, even if we assume he wasn't aware, wasn't the black cap in jail back then?

 

or did they make many many more Cap Americas.

Yeah I didn't understand that part either. It seemed like he was obviously lying but then why ask?

[ZattMurdock]

10 minutes ago, Menor said:

Yeah I didn't understand that part either. It seemed like he was obviously lying but then why ask?

Time travel. It’s too easy to have Isaiah Bradley as the Cap he fought. My opinion is that the understanding that the Endgame screenwriters intended for Endgame is correct: Cap lived his life in the "sacred timeline". Sometimes under the shadows, sometimes showing up. 

[charlie Jatinder]

So how did Nat escaped  Ross. Did she asked for head start on account if bringing down red room. It felt to me that Nat would better off in home prison with her sister than be in this movie.

[Wormow]

7 hours ago, Darth Homer said:

Because they’re awesome. I actually wish the whole movie had been more like the opening. Yeah, I know the silly comic book stuff sells but I would have preferred a straight spy thriller without the magic dust that instantly frees people from mind control and the obligatory sky battle at the end.

 

I find most movie opening credits usually filler, however this movie was a good example of a well executed opening credits.

[junkshop36]

This felt like two different movies for me. 
 

This first 2 acts were like a 8/10 while the 3rd act was more of a 6/10. 
 

They should have stuck with the overall tone of the first 2 acts for the whole movie just slightly ramped up a bit in the 3rd act with a bad ass fight between Natasha and Taskmaster. 
 

Now that I think about it, they were clearly foreshadowing the whole ending on the floating base by having Natasha watching Moonraker early in the movie lol. 

[Valonqar]

This was so much fun but third act sticks like a sour thumb especially in contrast to the marvelous opening with the "family" being hunted down by the good guys, only to jump from that frying pan into the fire when Dreykov collected the girls. I thought it was a great thing to show the other side as normal family people. Also establishes the dynamic, with young Nat as a capable protector of young Yelena and "daddy" being the girls' favorite.

 

Nat, Yelena, Alexei and Melina were great and played off each other so well. Since one of 2 themes was daddy issues, there were quite a few emotional moments between Alexei and the girls. His pride for their killing skills   got a lot a of laughs, as well as when Yelena mis-named his oft-repeated heroic alter-ego as Crimson Protector . "It's...Red Guardian". 

Yelena was fantastic. Silly, sassy, funny, badass, vulnerable, just well-rounded character that immediately popped. I felt that the movie's title applied more to her, as an origin story, than as the closure of Nat's. She gets to kill the villain and while Nat got to reconcile with her past in the form of freeing the (largely nameless, who-cares, very non-Russian) Widows including the Taskmaster, that felt anti-climactic. Taskmaster was just blah and while she was supposed to be sympathetic on paper, the movie really didn't care whether she was or not. The focus was the family which was the right decision. Taskmaster and her evil dad were just on the margin of the plot to justify action and provide daddy issues parallel but that was really it.

 

The third act...this is where director with vision/creativity (think GOTG's Dance-off) or at least an imaginative set piece (think Thomas the Tank Engine from Ant Man) can make a difference. Unfortunately, BW has only a competent workman-like director and production designer who failed to rise above the constrains of formulaic big bang finale. This was just bad, been there done that (another hovercraft fight/destruction, really?)  compounded by the terrible CGI. What's worse, the moment that was meant to be emotional (Yelena is knocked out and falling down while Nat plunges herself to catch her) is now a twitter meme. Also, too much was going on to resonate. The movie had Red Mist if I'm not mistaken as the McGuffin until we learned about impossibly silly WTF-is-that smell McGuffin. So the villain basically served as the Mothership Trope (Kill the villain and all Widows wake up from their programming or something?). Except that Taskmaster because she needed to be personally freed by Nat who once almost killed her. Whatever. I think that big part why the third act didn't work is that villain and supposed sympathetic villain were so bad and this is the part of the movie that inevitably focuses on them.

 

Which means the first and second act where the villain's were at the margin of the plot, only popping up to provide action, were great. I loved the return of Mission Impossible "faces" (great swap between Nat and Melina). Anything with Nat and Yelena cause the latter is such a hoot. Fight scenes had weight to them and I honestly don't mind that stunt doubles were obvious because I'll take a weighty fight over weightless CGI one any time. 

 

All in all, I think the movie kept the focus on the family in particular the sisters, which was the right thing to do. That made it very relatable and I think WOM will be strong despite third act warts. I think that they had a good idea with Nat liberating the Widows but didn't have a good story for it. In fact, Smell-o McGuffin made it ridiculous. Also, it's hard to make the liberation resonate when the Widows who aren't Yelena are all just redshirts. 

 

Closing credits: like I said already, Yelena believing that Hawkeye killed Nat strikes me as drama for the sake of drama. The audience knows that isn't the case so why make this character dumber than the audience? Oh and Valentina thinks Hawkeye is a cutie. 

 

Question for comic book fans: I hear a lot of talk about something called Thunderbolts that would have Yelena, Walker, Zemo, Valentina on the team among other characters. They say closing credits confirm it's happening. Can you explain Thunderbolts more?

 

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, junkshop36 said:

This felt like two different movies for me. 
 

This first 2 acts were like a 8/10 while the 3rd act was more of a 6/10. 
 

They should have stuck with the overall tone of the first 2 acts for the whole movie just slightly ramped up a bit in the 3rd act with a bad ass fight between Natasha and Taskmaster. 
 

Now that I think about it, they were clearly foreshadowing the whole ending on the floating base by having Natasha watching Moonraker early in the movie lol. 

The first act was like 9/10,second act was like 7/10 ,third act like 3-4/10

Was enjoying the slow family moments at rachel's house then it's like third act was just stitched on and rushed. 

 

 

This movie had pacing issues in general ,it's like the third act didn't have enough connective tissue ,the villians just appear so abruptly and suddenly we are told natasha and rachel had a plan all a long which kind of why the mask reveal doesn't deliver as expected  compare this to the mask reveal in TWS which is pretty cool and yeah well wouldn't you know WS is regarded as one of the best paced movies in the mcu.

 

We are introduced to drekov who we have seen few in the movie and his pheromones defence, red guardian and melina have to escape and look for the antidote to save the black widows who have been barely seen much in the movie. The reveal of taskmaster is flat bse we barely know her and is just an aimless character. The fight btn red guardian and taskmaster also has many cut ways simply because they have too many mini quests to complete.

Compare this to TWS ,in the third act we know their plan to stop hydra and conflict is established to be whether cap has enough him to do what's is required even taking down bucky and when the action starts we are not confused.

 

BW tries to shove all the stakes and villians development in third act and their plan feels like make it up as you go along kind of plan which results in a mess of the third act  that's cgi with little investment in what is going on.

 

Basically it's like shortland made the first acts to focus heavily on family aspect with a little focus on other plots then suddenly they realize the third act is not properly set up and they want thier large action set piece .this family stuff has taken majority of the movie and they try to fit the remainder in the third act and the family stuff payoff is pushed to the side.

 

The last moment with her family just felt so rushed bse they wanted to connect her  back to her look at the start of infinity war.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Liiviig 1998

[charlie Jatinder]

 

[Valonqar]

3 hours ago, Liiviig 1998 said:

 

 

Basically it's like shortland made the first acts to focus heavily on family aspect with a little focus on other plots then suddenly they realize the third act is not properly set up and they want thier large action set piece .this family stuff has taken majority of the movie and they try to fit the remainder in the third act and the family stuff payoff is pushed to the side.

 

The last moment with her family just felt so rushed bse they wanted to connect her  back to her look at the start of infinity war.

 

 

 

 

 

the whole post is pretty on point but this really nails the third act problem.

[Menor the Destroyer]

Recent trend in Phase 4 has been rushed endings. Happened in WV, Falcon, now this, and I suspect it will happen in Loki as well. I don't recall this ever being a problem in Phase 3, so I'm not really sure why it's cropped up now, but it really hampered this film. With the performances and the good chemistry between the "family", this should have been top-tier MCU. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Menor

[charlie Jatinder]

The dark period is gonna end with What If. We will be back in that golden period of 2016-2018

[Menor the Destroyer]

Idk what to expect from What If or Ms. Marvel. Shang-Chi looks entertaining to me, but I have a gut feeling that it may have the same third act issues. Eternals is my hope to kick things back up to high gear. 

 

I actually did think that the flying castle was a good idea in this film. With a better storyline inside that fortress it would have worked out great. Maybe if the mind-control release worked, but some of the Widows still wanted to stay, and there ended up being a fight between the Widows who wanted to be free and those who wanted to stay. And there was no need to blow up the fortress. Should have stuck to the skydiving aspect and left out the explosions. 

Edited July 10, 2021 by Menor

[Valonqar]

24 minutes ago, Menor said:

Recent trend in Phase 4 has been rushed endings. Happened in WV, Falcon, now this, and I suspect it will happen in Loki as well. I don't recall this ever being a problem in Phase 3, so I'm not really sure why it's cropped up now, but it really hampered this film. With the performances and the good chemistry between the "family", this should have been top-tier MCU. 

 

this is so on point! I couldn't put my finger in what I found amiss in the current crop of MCU offerings, but you nailed it. 

[druv10]

Fantastic movie, top 3 origin movie along with IM1 and BP. 

 

I don't get Taskmaster hate, she's a tragic figure just like winter soldier. Plus movie was about Natasha and her family, no time to expound much on her.

[dudalb]

On 7/7/2021 at 3:52 PM, AJG said:

 

There isnt one

  Hide contents

Its Natasha getting the plane shes in in Infinity War from her friend. Plays immeadialey after the film

 

The end credit scene

  Hide contents

Elaine from Seinfeld tells Florence Pugh that Hawkeye killed Nat at her grave.

 

Spoiler

Seeing Valetina surprised me. Wonder how this is going to fit into tyhe upcoming Haekeye Disney Plus series.

 

 

[dudalb]

16 hours ago, charlie Jatinder said:

So how did Nat escaped  Ross. Did she asked for head start on account if bringing down red room. It felt to me that Nat would better off in home prison with her sister than be in this movie.

Where was the Red Room located, anyway?

I find it hard to believe that Putin ..who was in charge when the moive take place in 2015..would allow a US Strike Froce to operate in Russia..overall I liked the film but that was of those WTF just not buying that moments for me.

[dudalb]

One nice bit was Natasha watching a James Bond movie, "Moonraker" to be exact.

And there was a payoff: one the big action bits in the final scenes was pretty much borrowed from "Moonraker".

Spoiler

Where Natasha jumps off the plane without a parachute and grabs one is pretty much a direct life from the pretitle sequence in
Moorraker".I ma sure the connection between the two scenes was not coindiciental

 

[CJohn]

The final scene is so random. She is captured by Ross and 2 weeks later she is randomly free with no explanation of what happened.

Edited July 11, 2021 by CJohn

[CJohn]

On 6/29/2021 at 9:41 PM, MrPink said:

Wait...

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Olga Kurylenko has a job?

 

She had a pretty big hit on Netflix in Europe early this year which already has a confirmed sequel in production.