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[Menor the Destroyer]

7 minutes ago, Korra Legion said:

I guess another way to say this would be that for me:

PT is tactically bad but strategically good

OT is tactically good but strategically bad

ST is tactically and strategically bad

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Various shows are tactically and strategically good, beating all 3 trilogies handily

 

PT tactically good, strategically great

OT tactically great, strategically good

 

I think only one show would be very strong both tactically and strategically, other good SW shows are generally tactically good/great and strategically eh/ok. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Menor Reborn

[Hatebox]

I have no idea what 'tactically' and 'strategically' mean in this context.

[Cooper Legion]

3 minutes ago, Menor Reborn said:

PT tactically good, strategically great

OT tactically great, strategically good

 

I think only one show would be very strong both tactically and strategically, other good SW shows are generally tactically good and strategically eh/ok. 

These are all fair I was just too lazy for more than two adjectives 😛 

[stuart360]

How many of the people that prefer the prequels over the orig trilogy are over 40yo?.

Just wondering.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

39 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

Speaking of SW guys, did the Disney trilogy make you appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more?.

It did with me.

 

 

I think it's far harder to unpick the two than people think.

 

I've always thought It is BECAUSE the prequel trilogy was received so poorly in many quarters that when The Force Awakens remade New Hope it was accepted extremely positively rather than, as it should have been, booed out of every cinema going. Its astonishing looking back that even cynical outlets like Red Letter Media aimed all of their "Remember Star Wars!!!!!!!" vitriol at Rogue One that so very obviously deserved to be flung at Force Awakens that even they gave a completely free pass to.

 

But then I also think it is because the prequel trilogy was divisive that Disney chose to make the most down the line, small-c conservative version of Star Wars possible as the first film out and acquired the most down the line, small-c conservative director possible to do so. A film that caused huge problems down the line because of just HOW small-c conservative it was and how few ideas it had other than to repeat previously used Star Wars beats.

 

The problems with the two trilogies are entirely different. One was planned in detail with severe flaws in execution and concept; the other wasn't planned at all but at least the middle one was directed by someone who genuinely was interested in science fiction and wanted to pull out ideas from Star Wars that hadn't been mined since the first film.

 

For What it's worth:

 

Last Jedi: B

Sith: C-

Force Awakens: D+

Menace: D-

Clones: F

Skywalker: F

 

In other words, outside of Last Jedi, which I see as just a slightly above average movie, neither trilogy really bares any discussion to me other than the fact it's Star Wars and therefore inherently interesting from a pop culture basis. 5 of the films are below average, and 2 are a disgrace. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Ipickthiswhiterose

[ZattMurdock]

2 minutes ago, Hatebox said:

 

Nah, though I do find the prequels' semi-rehabilitation through memes + nostalgia fascinating. If mostly undeserved.

There is a whole generation that grew up with the PT and love it even more than the OT. We might not acknowledge them but they grew up, they are out there and I’d argue that the rehabilitation wasn’t really through wasn’t through memes, but through the passing of time. 
 

What most Star Wars fans don’t like to acknowledge and that George Lucas has so eloquently explained throughout the years is that Star Wars isn’t sci-fi. It’s a fairy tale with sci-fi elements. It’s a very much straight forward story of good versus evil, and I’m glad that that’s’ the case. I don’t need whatever Star Wars fanboys fantasize about "a film through the lens of the Empire" and yadda yadda. The Empire is fascist and irredeemable, they are the space nazis. There is no maturing of Star Wars, neither it should have. There is a lot you can do with Star Wars and it’s universe, with a lot of flavors and shades of gray. But at the end of the day it’s still a space fairy tale. We have Marvel, Avatar and an infinite amount of sci-fi films and franchises to give us actual sci-fi. 
 

Star Wars influence might one day fade, but I do think they are doing a fine job presenting new characters for the new generation. The resistence that every new trilogy has from the ‘true Star Wars fans’ will happen again and again, but I hope that Lucasfilm keeps what Lucas envisioned for the franchise alive.

[Hatebox]

2 minutes ago, ZattMurdock said:

There is a whole generation that grew up with the PT and love it even more than the OT.

 

I know, and they're morons. 😃

 

 

Spoiler

I was 12 when Phantom Menance came out, so I'm part of that generation. ☹️

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Hatebox

[Menor the Destroyer]

2 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

How many of the people that prefer the prequels over the orig trilogy are over 40yo?.

Just wondering.

Well, I am well under 40. 

1 minute ago, ZattMurdock said:

There is a whole generation that grew up with the PT and love it even more than the OT. We might not acknowledge them but they grew up, they are out there and I’d argue that the rehabilitation wasn’t really through wasn’t through memes, but through the passing of time.

I think this is overstating things, even among younger SW fans the OT is generally the highest-ranked trilogy (although the prequel era is extremely popular). But yes, overall younger fans are far more accepting of and positive towards the PT. I guess we'll see how the ST's reception looks in a decade or so. 

[ZattMurdock]

1 minute ago, Hatebox said:

 

I know, and they're morons. 😃

 

 

  Hide contents

I was 12 when Phantom Menance came out, so I'm part of that generation. ☹️

 

Too old. I mean younger.

[Menor the Destroyer]

1 minute ago, ZattMurdock said:

Too old. I mean younger.

Yeah, if anything, I find (completely anecdotally) that people who were teenager-ish age when they came out tend to be among the most intensely negative toward the PT. 

[stuart360]

Am i also the only one that over time now prefers The Phantom Menace the best out of the Prequels?.

I mean ROTS is the best 'film' out of the prequels, but its so dark and depressing. TPM imo felt the most like the orig trilogy.

[Hatebox]

3 minutes ago, Menor Reborn said:

Yeah, if anything, I find (completely anecdotally) that people who were teenager-ish age when they came out tend to be among the most intensely negative toward the PT. 

 

I think you're underestimating the impressionability of 12 year olds, but it probably didn't help that teenagers would have also just seen The Matrix.

[JustLurking]

10 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

 

 

I think it's far harder to unpick the two than people think.

 

I've always thought It is BECAUSE the prequel trilogy was received so poorly in many quarters that when The Force Awakens remade New Hope it was accepted extremely positively rather than, as it should have been, booed out of every cinema going. Its astonishing looking back that even cynical outlets like Red Letter Media aimed all of their "Remember Star Wars!!!!!!!" vitriol at Rogue One that so very obviously deserved to be flung at Force Awakens that even they gave a completely free pass to.

 

But then I also think it is because the prequel trilogy was divisive that Disney chose to make the most down the line, small-c conservative version of Star Wars possible as the first film out and acquired the most down the line, small-c conservative director possible to do so. A film that caused huge problems down the line because of just HOW small-c conservative it was and how few ideas it had other than to repeat previously used Star Wars beats.

 

The problems with the two trilogies are entirely different. One was planned in detail with severe flaws in execution and concept; the other wasn't planned at all but at least the middle one was directed by someone who genuinely was interested in science fiction and wanted to pull out ideas from Star Wars that hadn't been mined since the first film.

 

For What it's worth:

 

Last Jedi: B

Sith: C-

Force Awakens: D+

Menace: D-

Clones: F

Skywalker: F

 

In other words, outside of Last Jedi, which I see as just a slightly above average movie, neither trilogy really bares any discussion to me other than the fact it's Star Wars and therefore inherently interesting from a pop culture basis. 5 of the films are below average, and 2 are a disgrace. 

The Star Wars fandom has always been fascinating to me in that they hate nearly all of the movies yet just can't stop watching them.  You would think they'd just give up on it yet they don't.

[MrPink]

ROTS is the worst prequel for cutting Mommy Mothma out of the movie, an unforgivable sin

 

 

 

[Menor the Destroyer]

1 minute ago, JustLurking said:

The Star Wars fandom has always been fascinating to me in that they hate nearly all of the movies yet just can't stop watching them.  You would think they'd just give up on it yet they don't.

It's not actually true that most Star Wars fans hate most of the movies. Just that the critical ones are very...vociferous. 

[Cooper Legion]

In 50 years everyone will have come around to PT>OT>>ST

 

Spoiler

And I will have completely forgotten this was a thing I ever thought about.

 

[stuart360]

1 minute ago, Korra Legion said:

In 50 years everyone will have come around to PT>OT>>ST

 

  Hide contents

And I will have completely forgotten this was a thing I ever thought about.

 

I doubt it to be honest. And i'm glad i wont be here by then if thats true.

[Lucas]

54 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

Speaking of SW guys, did the Disney trilogy make you appreciate the prequel trilogy a whole lot more?.

It did with me.

Absolutely not. Only thing I appreciated a little bit more is the idea of a big franchise spearheaded by one voice, but that's not thanks to the ST.

[ZattMurdock]

19 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

How many of the people that prefer the prequels over the orig trilogy are over 40yo?.

Just wondering.

Over 40yo here, used to hate the PT to death, but then come to the acceptance of what Star Wars is and that George was right all along. I like the OT better than the ST, but I can see how much of my own nostalgia plays into that. I look forward to a whole new generation growing up with Rey just like I grew up with Luke. 
 

This is what Star Wars is actually about:

 

 

People complain about the ‘Disneyzification’ of Star Wars without understanding that Star Wars has been a fairytale all along. It’s the 20th Century’s take on the old fairytale mythos. And if people get too old for it, well, that sucks. But a whole new generation has Rey now. They liking that or not_

[Hatebox]

I was never a SW fan and was actually quite bored watching the OT re-releases as a ten year old, but the prequels made them seem much better to me after the fact for obvious reasons that have been discussed to death.

 

I didn't have the critical faculties to know why Episode 1 felt 'off' at the time, but when the other two came out it was easy enough to guage why they didn't work.

 

 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Hatebox