Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets | July 21, 2017 | FLOP OF THE YEAR

[Plain Old Tele]

5 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

Distribution rights would be a much better phrase than pre-sales. 

 

1 minute ago, The Futurist said:

 

In french, Besson probably used the word "pré-ventes" which translate into pre-sales but it does not mean the same thing.

 

It is called a "faux ami", false friend, when the word to word translation doesn't mean the same thing.

 

"Foreign pre-sales" is pretty standard usage here, though I see how it can get confusing with the rise of general pre-sales for tickets. 

[Arlborn]

10 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

Besson is correct that it will hurt his company's reputation if the film is a box office flop. It means these other distributors around the world are paying a huge price and losing their ass. From their viewpoint they would likely feel like they got conned or scammed by Europa. 

 

Scammed is a very silly word to use in this situation. I'm sure they had their own analysts assess how much it was worth for them and how risky it was, they can't claim to have been scammed.

 

But yeah, I'm glad that the company itself won't fold or anything similar if this one doesn't do well. It would make it more difficult for them with distributors in the future but at least they're still alive.

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by Arlborn

[redfirebird2008]

2 minutes ago, Arlborn said:

 

Scammed is a very silly word to use in this situation. I'm sure they had their own analysts assess how much it was worth for them and how risky it was, they can't claim to have been scammed.

 

But yeah, I'm glad that the company itself won't fold or anything similar if this one doesn't do well. It would make it more difficult for them with distributors in the future but at least they're still alive.

 

 

But he is correct that those distributors won't be happy. He said his company won't lose money, but their reputation will be hurt...and that is the truth. 

[Plain Old Tele]

4 minutes ago, Arlborn said:

 

Scammed is a very silly word to use in this situation. I'm sure they had their own analysts access how much it was worth for them and how risky it was, they can't claim to have been scammed.

 

But yeah, I'm glad that the company itself won't fold or anything similar if this one doesn't do well. It would make it more difficult for them with distributors in the future but at least they're still alive.

 

Yes, a company (or their sales agent) will go to each foreign distributor and show them the movie package: stars, director, concept. The sales agent gets a range from the distributor (based on low-end and high-end offers). Everyone ignores the high-end. The low-end offers are totaled up -- some get finalized and secured. The others can be used as collateral for a bank loan to swing the bulk of the remaining budget. It can get a lot more complicated but that's the bare bones gist. 

[The Futurist]

13 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

Yeah, Futurist is right, they're talking about foreign pre-sales: the same way New Line covered their ass entirely with FOTR. 

Jlaw was the Saleswoman of the Hunger Games franchise for 4 years I think to foreign distributors.

Each year, she had to go to Cannes (I know, terrible) to a big party organized by Lionsgate where she had to have dinner with greasy old men from all over the world ...

 

11 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

Besson is correct that it will hurt his company's reputation if the film is a box office flop. It means these other distributors around the world are paying a huge price and losing their ass. From their viewpoint they would likely feel like they got conned or scammed by Europa. 

 

More than anything, Besson s feelings will be hurt.

Valérian is his Batman , his Star Wars, his Spiderman, his childhood's dream.

His dream is to turn Valérian into a franchise and he has a script ready for number two.

 

I think Around 500m WW, he will try for a second one, we ll see.

[Arlborn]

Just now, redfirebird2008 said:

 

But he is correct that those distributors won't be happy. He said his company won't lose money, but their reputation will be hurt...and that is the truth. 

Of course it is and I did acknowledge it. But "scammed"?

 

Quote

scam

skam/

noun

informal

noun: scam; plural noun: scams

1. 1.

   a dishonest scheme; a fraud.

   "an insurance scam"

   synonyms:

   fraud, swindle, fraudulent scheme, racket, trick; More pharming; informalcon, hustle, flimflam, bunco, grift, gyp, shakedown "the scam involved a series of bogus investment deals"

verb

 

Way too strong a word for something like that, that's all I meant.

 

[redfirebird2008]

Just now, Arlborn said:

Of course it is and I did acknowledge it. But "scammed"?

 

 

Way too strong a word for something like that, that's all I meant.

 

 

If they felt that way, I would not blame them. 

[Plain Old Tele]

1 minute ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

If they felt that way, I would not blame them. 

 

Everyone understands it's a risk. Unless a production company or studio does something really underhanded, I doubt there's bad blood. 

 

Of course the distributor might choose to make a lower offer on a future sequel or product, but that's different. 

[The Futurist]

Besson s wife (his producing partner, remind me of someone) told the pitch to foreign distributors was to do & deliver a movie that could compete with american-Marvel blockbusters with a european-french flavor.

Given the visuals and trailers, no scam here it seems.

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by The Futurist

[redfirebird2008]

1 minute ago, The Futurist said:

Besson s wife (his producing partner, remind me of someone) told the pitch to foreign distributors was to do & deliver a movie that could compete with american-Marvel blockbusters with a european-french flavor.

Given the visuals and trailers, no scam here it seems.

 

 

Except it was never gonna compete with them at the box office. Jupiter Ascending also had crazy visuals and was always destined to be a bust at the box office. Distributors are idiots if they fell for a pitch comparing Marvel to Valerian. 

[The Futurist]

1 minute ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

Except it was never gonna compete with them at the box office. Jupiter Ascending also had crazy visuals and was always destined to be a bust at the box office. Distributors are idiots if they fell for a pitch comparing Marvel to Valerian. 

 

Look, I think you re underestimating how big of a deal a movie like this is.

Outside of USA-England-China, no other country has delivered a movie like Valerian to my knowledge.

And the pitch was probably more about Avatar than anything else, I said Marvel but she didn't actually say it I think.

Anyway, I think Besson is damn proud to be able to do a movie like this on this scale, being french.

Local distributors cannot buy any movie from the big six, which produce 90% of tentpoles, so think Valérian as an anomaly.

[redfirebird2008]

1 minute ago, The Futurist said:

 

Look, I think you re underestimating how big of a deal a movie like this is.

Outside of USA-England-China, no other country has delivered a movie like Valerian to my knowledge.

And the pitch was probably more about Avatar than anything else, I said Marvel but she didn't actually say it I think.

Anyway, I think Besson is damn proud to be able to do a movie like this on this scale, being french.

Local distributors cannot buy any movie from the big six, which produce 90% of tentpoles, so think Valérian as an anomaly.

 

Avatar would definitely be a better comparison. Unless something out of this world happens, it's probably not going to be able to match up with Avatar success. But then again, no one saw the Avatar juggernaut coming before it happened either. We shall see how it goes. 

[cookie]

I would've had more confidence in this if the leads were cast better. Got a feeling they're going to sink the movie.

[The Futurist]

Story of modern visual effects and visionary filmmakers.

 

Peter Jackson created Weta Digital in 1993 after seeing Terminator 2.

James Cameron  thought technology was ready for Avatar when he saw Gollum in Two Towers.

Luc Besson thought technology was ready for Valérian when he saw Avatar. Valerian started out at Weta Digital.

 

Circle of Life.

Edited June 25, 2017 by The Futurist

[Elessar]

19 minutes ago, redfirebird2008 said:

 

Avatar would definitely be a better comparison.

 

How is the biggest movie ever a better comparisson?

 

You said it won't copmpete with Marvel box office wise, so we are talking box office here, aren't we?

[redfirebird2008]

2 minutes ago, Elessar said:

 

How is the biggest movie ever a better comparisson?

 

You said it won't copmpete with Marvel box office wise, so we are talking box office here, aren't we?

 

In terms of being an original film with a lot of risk. Avatar could have flopped and it turned out way more successful than anyone expected. Marvel is pretty safe, you know it's going to make a pretty good chunk of change at the box office. Valerian is risky like Avatar was. Will it flop or succeed? We just have to see how it goes. 

[Elessar]

I'd argue a James Cameron epic is a pretty safe bet but that may be just me...

[redfirebird2008]

Just now, Elessar said:

I'd argue a James Cameron epic is a pretty safe bet but that may be just me...

 

That didn't stop people from predicting it to flop back in 2009. 

[antovolk]

1 hour ago, Harley said:

I'll have to see if I can find the tweet. Journalists on twitter mentioned it a while back. I might have miss read it which is why I was asking if anyone heard the same.

it has been screened already in the past week to U.S. critics.

Edited June 25, 2017 by antovolk

[Elessar]

I share the concern about the leads, not because they are terrible actors but they just don't strike me as someone who can "save the world". They lack that leading man / woman "hero" quality. I dunno, maybe that's the point but it certainly won't make it easier to sell the movie to people...