Game of Thrones (TV ONLY) [Leaked Spoilers prohibited]

[The Panda]

4 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

I think a better way would have been, if Sansa had told Jon about the Vale, was that they planned to feign weakness and draw Ramsey out to hit their army, which would allow the Vale forces time to arrive and take them out.

 

Then Ramsey's Rickon gambit screws the plan up by goading Jon (and his army) to start the battle early AND by meeting the Bolton army on Ramsey's terms. Add into that the Vale army being late, which creates some uncertainty about whether or not Littlefinger has decided to screw them over, and you get a more satisfying feel to their final arrival, since instead of a deus ex machina of sorts it's more of a relief that in the end the plan worked and Littlefinger resisted any urge to betray them for his own ends.

 

I do agree that the whole, "Sansa doesn't tell Jon thing," this whole season seemed a little artificial.  But I also think it's more trying to get the storyline a little more on track with where the books are headed (in which Jon's army really won't know Littlefinger is coming, because Sansa is with Littlefinger).

 

The way it happened made sense, but I do kind of wish they had taken a different route to make Littlefinger's army coming in feel more satisfying than it did in the episode.

 

I just feel like it's a nitpicky complaint though, given how amazingly executed every plot point was in that episode.  The battle was one of the best large scale action sequences I've seen on a screen, ever.

[4815162342]

28 minutes ago, The Pandaren said:

 

I do agree that the whole, "Sansa doesn't tell Jon thing," this whole season seemed a little artificial.  But I also think it's more trying to get the storyline a little more on track with where the books are headed (in which Jon's army really won't know Littlefinger is coming, because Sansa is with Littlefinger).

 

I doubt the Bolton resolution in Book 6 will be anything remotely similar to what we got in the show, since the set-up looks to be for Winterfell to be retaken without Jon or the Vale being involved (thanks to the GNC). Plus Sansa's Book 6 storyline is on a radically different trajectory at the moment.

[boomboom234]

8 minutes ago, 4815162342 said:

 

I doubt the Bolton resolution in Book 6 will be anything remotely similar to what we got in the show, since the set-up looks to be for Winterfell to be retaken without Jon or the Vale being involved (thanks to the GNC). Plus Sansa's Book 6 storyline is on a radically different trajectory at the moment.

It won't be close but then again nothing will be theon and asha are stannis prisoners, all the northern lords are fighting now ( there will be no army for Jon) and it looks like Stannis will win, Barristan will win the battle of Fire, Lady Stoneheart will keep hanging Freys,  Sansa is in the Vale holding court, the sand snakes are acting under Doran's orders ellaria is akindly sweet woman who just wants her children to live, Euron is actually a good villain and so on 

[Spidey Freak]

2 hours ago, boomboom234 said:

That's really crap considering the north remembers isn't about the starks its about the boltons and frey killing off the head of almost every other northern family in a betrayal so heinous to the culture that everybody is shocked its not really about blind obediance so much as revenge but the show ignored any consequence of the red wedding they just had it happen.

 

Plus on the battle they could have had jon just win on his own in a tough battle, which is what grrm is looking like stannis will do in the books

 

Is blind revenge that much better an alternative to blind loyalty though? Also, Book Ramsay was actually even more despicable than Show Ramsay, traumatizing not just Theon and the Sansa equivalent but also other lords and ladies of the North. The Northern houses had/have no choice but to rise against the Boltons in the books, for their own safety. It wasn't just a thing resulting completely because of the Red Wedding. Show Ramsay hasn't been shown to victimize the other highborns of the North with the exception of Walda Frey, so the North has much less incentive to take such a drastic step and instead can choose to cut their losses. 

 

Also, other than the Sansa/Vale involvement, I don't think the Battle of the North is going to play out all that differently in the books. Seeing how GRRM confirmed the Shireen sacrifice, Stannis's fate seems pretty much sealed in the books as well.

[boomboom234]

10 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

Is blind revenge that much better an alternative to blind loyalty though? Also, Book Ramsay was actually even more despicable than Show Ramsay, traumatizing not just Theon and the Sansa equivalent but also other lords and ladies of the North. The Northern houses had/have no choice but to rise against the Boltons in the books, for their own safety. It wasn't just a thing resulting completely because of the Red Wedding. Show Ramsay hasn't been shown to victimize the other highborns of the North with the exception of Walda Frey, so the North has much less incentive to take such a drastic step and instead can choose to cut their losses. 

 

Also, other than the Sansa/Vale involvement, I don't think the Battle of the North is going to play out all that differently in the books. Seeing how GRRM confirmed the Shireen sacrifice, Stannis's fate seems pretty much sealed in the books as well.

"Even when I threatened to have her tongue out, she reminded me of the debt White Harbor owes to the Starks of Winterfell, a debt that can never be repaid. Wylla spoke from the heart, as did Lady Leona. Forgive her if you can, my lord. She is a foolish, frightened woman, and Wylis is her life. Not every man has it in him to be Prince Aemon the Dragonknight or Symeon Star-Eyes, and not every woman can be as brave as my Wylla and her sister Wynafryd ... who did know, yet played her own part fearlessly. My son Wendel came to the Twins a guest. He ate Lord Walder's bread and salt, and hung his sword upon the wall to feast with friends. And they murdered him. Murdered, I say, and may the Freys choke upon their fables. I drink with Jared, jape with Symond, promise Rhaegar the hand of my own beloved granddaughter ... but never think that means I have forgotten. The north remembers, Lord Davos. The north remembers, and the mummer's farce is almost done. My son is home."

 

 

 

[Aenys Frey] “I do not claim Lord Wyman does the deeds himself. He brought three hundred men with him. A hundred knights. Any of them might have—”

“Night work is not knight’s work,” Lady Dustin said. “And Lord Wyman is not the only man who lost kin at your Red Wedding, Frey. Do you imagine Whoresbane loves you any better? If you did not hold the Greatjon, he would pull out your entrails and make you eat them, as Lady Hornwood ate her fingers. Flints, Cerwyns, Tallharts, Slates … they all had men with the Young Wolf.”

“House Ryswell too,” said Roger Ryswell. “Even Dustins out of Barrowton.”

Lady Dustin parted her lips in a thin, feral smile. “The north remembers, Frey.”

 

 

by removing this it removes the charecter of the north and marketing this season as the north remembers and delivering none of it seems like a wasted opportunity. Stannis may die but it won't be with Ramsay and Shireen Melisandre and his queen are all at the wall while he is weeks away at winterfell he won't sacrifice his daughter mostly if she dies it will be weeks away at winterfell. And in the released Theon chapter it seems like Stannis is going to win the battle as the enemy are coming at him in two waves one of whihc is actively disloyal and the other just lost its commander. Stannis will probably die but it will probably be against the others and he will have no part of burning his daughter  

[Spidey Freak]

7 minutes ago, boomboom234 said:

 

by removing this it removes the charecter of the north and marketing this season as the north remembers and delivering none of it seems like a wasted opportunity. Stannis may die but it won't be with Ramsay and Shireen Melisandre and his queen are all at the wall while he is weeks away at winterfell he won't sacrifice his daughter mostly if she dies it will be weeks away at winterfell. And in the released Theon chapter it seems like Stannis is going to win the battle as the enemy are coming at him in two waves one of whihc is actively disloyal and the other just lost its commander. Stannis will probably die but it will probably be against the others and he will have no part of burning his daughter  

 

Yeah, just because Book North turns a blind eye to Robb and Catelyn's political messes in favor of revenge doesn't mean Show North has to as well. Also, Lady Hornwood was a victim post-RW. The trauma she experienced at the hands of Ramsay drove home the point that all of the surviving Northern highborns were still in grave danger under the Bolton reign as well.

 

It just seems nitpicking at this point. You are critical of the show's treatment of Ellaria and prefer the more collected Book Ellaria but you oppose the Northern houses being more pragmatic and want them to be more vengeful like Show Ellaria.

[boomboom234]

6 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

Yeah, just because Book North turns a blind eye to Robb and Catelyn's political messes in favor of revenge doesn't mean Show North has to as well. Also, Lady Hornwood was a victim post-RW. The trauma she experienced at the hands of Ramsay drove home the point that all of the surviving Northern highborns were still in grave danger under the Bolton reign as well.

 

It just seems nitpicking at this point. You are critical of the show's treatment of Ellaria and prefer the more collected Book Ellaria but you oppose the Northern houses being more pragmatic and want them to be more vengeful like Show Ellaria.

I oppose changing characters and storylines for stupid reasons northerners are not pragmatic and it isn't pragmatism in the red wedding which was a defining moment if has no aftermath what is the point dorne is different and already had a better plot. Ellaria has four lines in the book cutting Arianne and the whole dorne plot into the abortion it is now is stupid. And the north end fighting between for the house that betrayed and killed all their family members at a wedding they were guests at is also stupid how is this nitpicking this is the most basic aspect of the sorry 

[Cmasterclay]

2 hours ago, boomboom234 said:

No they were mostly holes in the story or things that honeslty made no sense and choosing plots that are honestly shit. 

Dude, I've been meaning to ask....you have never said one positive thing about this show. All you ever do is complain. So why watch? You hate it so much, just stop watching. 

[boomboom234]

4 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Dude, I've been meaning to ask....you have never said one positive thing about this show. All you ever do is complain. So why watch? You hate it so much, just stop watching. 

friends mostly roomates like it and I used to like it through season 4 so some loyalty but i think most people are coming around to the fact that the quality is declining. Last season killed it for me this was better but the shit of last season is still around

Edited June 20, 2016 by boomboom234

[Cmasterclay]

If by most people are coming around to the fact that it is declining, you mean that it is having its highest rated season ever, is now the most popular show on planet Earth once streams are factored in, and just won its first Emmy for Best Show and is going to again, sure, most people. Dudes complaining about every line change from the book on ASOIAF forums are not "most people." They're a tiny vocal minority. The show is as popular as ever. 

[boomboom234]

3 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

If by most people are coming around to the fact that it is declining, you mean that it is having its highest rated season ever, is now the most popular show on planet Earth once streams are factored in, and just won its first Emmy for Best Show and is going to again, sure, most people. Dudes complaining about every line change from the book on ASOIAF forums are not "most people." They're a tiny vocal minority. The show is as popular as ever. 

sure it is but the reviews are getting more negative from actual reviewers and the show is getting more popular people are complaining about story lines and there are more negative articles and quality isn't about popularity I thought that was clear 

Edited June 20, 2016 by boomboom234

[Cmasterclay]

Just now, boomboom234 said:

sure it is but the reviews are getting more negative from actual reveiwers and the show is getting more popular people are colpaining about storylines nd there are more negative atricles and quality isn't about populatiry I thought that was clear 

But you said "most people are coming around to the fact that quality is declining," which, if true, would probably be reflected by declining ratings. 

[boomboom234]

Just now, Cmasterclay said:

But you said "most people are coming around to the fact that quality is declining," which, if true, would probably be reflected by declining ratings. 

most people at least i talked to say it isn't as good as it used to be but are continuing to watch regardless which even you would admit i think are season  5 and 6 half as good as 1 1 2 3 and 4 are?

[Cmasterclay]

12 minutes ago, boomboom234 said:

most people at least i talked to say it isn't as good as it used to be but are continuing to watch regardless which even you would admit i think are season  5 and 6 half as good as 1 1 2 3 and 4 are?

Season 6 has been pretty great and just as good as 3 and maybe 2, IMO. The only difference is people just love to complain. The Door might be my favorite episode of the show. 5 is by far the worst but Hardhome is maybe the best episode ever, and the last three episodes in general were terrific (but people were always gonna complain because their precious Stannis the Mannis did a bad thing, which was sooooo out of character for him). I think this season is a big jump back in quality, but people are just looking for reasons to complain. 

 

And I'm not just some casual fan. I loved the books and read them before the show, and even have read all the other content like a World of Fire and Ice and Dunk and Egg etc.  But it's also important to note I HATED the last two books relative to everything else. The first three are all in my top ten books ever. The last two have about five worthy chapters, and I thank the show for streamlining.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Cmasterclay

[boomboom234]

14 minutes ago, Cmasterclay said:

Season 6 has been pretty great and just as good as 3 and maybe 2, IMO. The only difference is people just love to complain. The Door might be my favorite episode of the show. 5 is by far the worst but Hardhome is maybe the best episode ever, and the last three episodes in general were terrific (but people were always gonna complain because their precious Stannis the Mannis did a bad thing, which was sooooo out of character for him). I think this season is a big jump back in quality, but people are just looking for reasons to complain. 

 

And I'm not just some casual fan. I loved the books and read them before the show, and even have read all the other content like a World of Fire and Ice and Dunk and Egg etc.  But it's also important to note I HATED the last two books relative to everything else. The first three are all in my top ten books ever. The last two have about five worthy chapters, and I thank the show for streamlining.

I guess that's the difference between me and you I loved feast and dance and I also read everything else and in this season literally until now nothing happened   no story has moved forward until episode 9 it's kinda been waste. And in season 5 every storyline failed dorne Sansa Stannis Dany KL only hardhome worked this rest just throw it away. They streamlined so much only to do nothing in 8/10 of this season they would have better served to at least try some book storylines. And you can't tell me there dude bro Euron is better than the insane dark lord we saw in the sample chapter. That the northern lord scenes are better than the north remembers speech by both lady Dustin and lord Manderly.

Edited June 20, 2016 by boomboom234

[Arlborn]

52 minutes ago, boomboom234 said:

friends mostly roomates like it and I used to like it through season 4 so some loyalty but i think most people are coming around to the fact that the quality is declining. Last season killed it for me this was better but the shit of last season is still around

Wow, that's so untrue. This season has been the best season since season 2-3, what the heck are you even going on about? In fact the stretch since Hardhome has been wonderful.

 

Also, let me just point out that I'm not saying that "The North Forgets" is a plot hole from the show. They've made it sorta make sense for the show. It's just that "The North Remembers" is much, much more epic from a story-line point of view and it could still have been done just fine for the show with just a few small changes to what happened. They didn't even have to bring Lord Manderly for it, they could have made someone else have a similar plot-line. I'm just reminiscing on what could have been.

 

[boomboom234]

2 minutes ago, Arlborn said:

Wow, that's so untrue. This season has been the best season since season 2-3, what the heck are you even going on about? In fact the stretch since Hardhome has been wonderful.

 

Also, let me just point out that I'm not saying that "The North Forgets" is a plot hole from the show. They've made it sorta make sense for the show. It's just that "The North Remembers" is much, much more epic from a story-line point of view and it could still have been done just fine for the show with just a few small changes to what happened. They didn't even have to bring Lord Manderly for it, they could have made someone else have a similar plot-line. I'm just reminiscing on what could have been.

 

Again outside of this last episode what has happened this season really its been one big holding pattern its better than last season but nothing is really happening

[Spidey Freak]

1 hour ago, Arlborn said:

Wow, that's so untrue. This season has been the best season since season 2-3, what the heck are you even going on about? In fact the stretch since Hardhome has been wonderful.

 

Also, let me just point out that I'm not saying that "The North Forgets" is a plot hole from the show. They've made it sorta make sense for the show. It's just that "The North Remembers" is much, much more epic from a story-line point of view and it could still have been done just fine for the show with just a few small changes to what happened. They didn't even have to bring Lord Manderly for it, they could have made someone else have a similar plot-line. I'm just reminiscing on what could have been.

 

 

In defense of the show, doesn't "The North Remembers" seem too fairytalish for GoT anyway? The Starks kept making dumbass mistakes and the North kept paying for it (Ned foolishly endangering himself and his daughters and triggering an avoidable war, Cat screwing up with the Jaime hostage situation, Robb screwing up with the Frey wedding deal, Robb screwing up and executing Lord Karstark and co. despite everybody's advise). All culminating in the Red Wedding. Robb, Cat and Ned jumped headlong into their own dooms, pulling many Northern men with them.

 

If the legitimate male heir and elders of the House proved to be so irresponsible and stupid, then why would many Northern Houses align with a polarizing bastard and a fugitive daughter who was a former Lannister spouse? A few Stark diehards are believable, but many of the major Houses? I don't find TNR epic in the slightest and I'm glad the show has done away with it. Jon and Sansa needed to earn their dues, not get free rides from the people who have suffered thanks to their family's idiocy. 

[Arlborn]

9 minutes ago, Spidey Freak said:

 

In defense of the show, doesn't "The North Remembers" seem too fairytalish for GoT anyway? The Starks kept making dumbass mistakes and the North kept paying for it (Ned foolishly endangering himself and his daughters and triggering an avoidable war, Cat screwing up with the Jaime hostage situation, Robb screwing up with the Frey wedding deal, Robb screwing up and executing Lord Karstark and co. despite everybody's advise). All culminating in the Red Wedding. Robb, Cat and Ned jumped headlong into their own dooms, pulling many Northern men with them.

 

If the legitimate male heir and elders of the House proved to be so irresponsible and stupid, then why would many Northern Houses align with a polarizing bastard and a fugitive daughter who was a former Lannister spouse? A few Stark diehards are believable, but many of the major Houses? I don't find TNR epic in the slightest and I'm glad the show has done away with it. Jon and Sansa needed to earn their dues, not get free rides from the people who have suffered thanks to their family's idiocy. 

For GoT? With the way they set things up, yeah probably.

 

For A Song of Ice and Fire? Nope,"The North Remembers" is perfectly set up there.

 

As I've said before, while how it happened makes sense in the show, we still could have gotten a version of The North Remembers with some mild tweaking. That will probably always be my biggest regret for this show, sorry.

 

 

[4815162342]

I love the GNC arc in Book 5 because it is a brilliant reflection of Northern culture and their concept of karmic payback. The Red Wedding is dismissed by Tywin as the death of a few men at dinner but it really goes to the core of the Northern spirit. Some things you just don't do, ever, and the Freys and Boltons did it.

 

It certainly has better drama qualities than Vale Ex Machina.

 

At least we got Lyanna Mormont.