Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny | June 30 2023 | Very mixed reviews out of Cannes

[TestPattern]

Are we in the dark ages of Hollywood?

[Mojoguy]

3 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

How much water can really be wrung out of franchises that started in the late 70’s and early 80’s and now are primarily catering to an aging fanbase? The 80’s nostalgia really seemed to peak in the 2010’s, but now it just doesn’t seem to be doing the same trick. 

TGM made $1.49 billion so studios will keeping trying to make nostalgia sequels happen. To them it's much easier than doing something original which would be too risky for them.

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

1 minute ago, Mojoguy said:

TGM made $1.49 billion so studios will keeping trying to make nostalgia sequels happen. To them it's much easier than doing something original which would be too risky for them.

The original TG came out in 1988 though. A decade after SW and 7 years after Indiana Jones began. It also hadn’t been milked at all prior to Maverick, whereas Star Wars and Indy had sequels in the noughties. 

[ThomasNicole]

5 minutes ago, JohnCarterofEarth said:

The way she’s run Lucasfilm seems to be a total mess. Directors get replaced and projects get shelved left and right. The sequel trilogy was a mess and it’s clear she had no plan on how it was going to go. She’s also pissed off the fans, I mean all the signs are there that she gotta go. I don’t know who they’ll replace her with because I don’t see anyone who can right the ship. Most of the damage that’s been caused is permanent. 

Yeah of course it’s a mess, do you see how Disney overall is doing? The problem comes from above , Disney is stucked and don’t know how to move forward, they only know how to sell nostalgia and this isn’t working anymore

 

LF was doing fine before TLJ that is one the most critically acclaimed blockbusters of the past decade, but when the fans turned into savage beasts, Disney freakout completely, ep IX was damage hard because of that. She didn’t pissed the fans, she gave creative freedom to a director that try to go into new places with the franchise and the freaks didn’t accept it, putting her in this weird position in a franchise that simply can’t move forward and Disney behind her putting pressure scared of online backlash.

 

The TV shows are supervised by other people way more than KK 

 

Indiana Jones is a damaged brand mainly because everyone hated Indy 4 and is being attacked online by the same weirdos

 

What is she supposed to do? It’s not her fault that all her plans of trying new things have to be stopped due to a bunch of loud weirdos.

 

Solo is probably the only movie where really the chaos seems to be because of her, and honestly that’s nothing unusual, Thor 2 have similar trouble production to keep in the Disney house

 

 

[Ken]

No time for love.

[JohnCarterofEarth]

7 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Yeah of course it’s a mess, do you see how Disney overall is doing? The problem comes from above , Disney is stucked and don’t know how to move forward, they only know how to sell nostalgia and this isn’t working anymore

 

LF was doing fine before TLJ that is one the most critically acclaimed blockbusters of the past decade, but when the fans turned into savage beasts, Disney freakout completely, ep IX was damage hard because of that. She didn’t pissed the fans, she gave creative freedom to a director that try to go into new places with the franchise and the freaks didn’t accept it, putting her in this weird position in a franchise that simply can’t move forward and Disney behind her putting pressure scared of online backlash.

 

The TV shows are supervised by other people way more than KK 

 

Indiana Jones is a damaged brand mainly because everyone hated Indy 4 and is being attacked online by the same weirdos

 

What is she supposed to do? It’s not her fault that all her plans of trying new things have to be stopped due to a bunch of loud weirdos.

 

Solo is probably the only movie where really the chaos seems to be because of her, and honestly that’s nothing unusual, Thor 2 have similar trouble production to keep in the Disney house

 

 

Savage beasts lol. This kind of tribalism is the reason why this country is falling apart. The fans you call savage beasts have no real power they aren’t the reason Lucasfilm and Disney are in trouble. It’s the people making the decisions. And the people who choose not to watch these films aren’t weirdos they aren’t obligated to pay to watch Disney films. 

[LegionWrex]

3 minutes ago, JohnCarterofEarth said:

Savage beasts lol. This kind of tribalism is the reason why this country is falling apart. The fans you call savage beasts have no real power they aren’t the reason Lucasfilm and Disney are in trouble. It’s the people making the decisions. And the people who choose not to watch these films aren’t weirdos they aren’t obligated to pay to watch Disney films. 

Pretty sure the country is falling apart for other reasons, but sure, let's go with hatred against Star Wars fans. #StopTheHate

[ThomasNicole]

9 minutes ago, JohnCarterofEarth said:

Savage beasts lol. This kind of tribalism is the reason why this country is falling apart. The fans you call savage beasts have no real power they aren’t the reason Lucasfilm and Disney are in trouble. It’s the people making the decisions. And the people who choose not to watch these films aren’t weirdos they aren’t obligated to pay to watch Disney films. 

Oh sure it’s absolutely normal behavior to boycott things over female characters, attack every person of color in the franchise, harassing the producer and think change something about a franchise is the same of destroying their childhood 

 

No one is obligated to pay for anything or watch anything but you don’t have to behave like a bunch of Karens about it either. Don’t like it? Move on and watch other things.
 

These people spend the last year having meltdowns about Indiana Jones having Phoebe in the cast, if you don’t see how pitiful this is maybe your ideas of why the country is falling apart are fundamentally childish and you should rethink.

[grey ghost]

36 minutes ago, ListenHunnyUrOver said:

How much water can really be wrung out of franchises that started in the late 70’s and early 80’s and now are primarily catering to an aging fanbase? The 80’s nostalgia really seemed to peak in the 2010’s, but now it just doesn’t seem to be doing the same trick. 

 

 

There seems to be a twenty year window where nostalgia is effective.

 

Keaton and Indy fell flat. It's possible certain geek franchises have audiences who age out after a while.

 

I think once your kids graduate high school you stop caring about some of this stuff.

[Ozymandias]

On 6/27/2023 at 10:48 AM, ZattMurdock said:

Wait, how on Earth I’m just hearing about this now?

 

There’s part of the same ol’ crowd worried that Phoebe is taking off Indiana Jones role when she is a massive old school Tomb Raider nerd and wants to write and produce a Tomb Raider show more inspired by the old games?! The nerds are truly taking over, I could never imagina she was a Lara Croft fan.
 

 

It doesn’t seem like she is thinking about playing her either, despite me thinking she could. Very intrigued by this.

 

better have those giant boobs and tiny booty shorts

 

On 6/27/2023 at 4:14 PM, BluKyberCrystal said:

I think something like Dune winning 2021 or Top Gun last year (I prefer EEAO) would be a better examples of this. Those are movies a lot of folks watched and were critical darlings as well. There are more then a few examples in the history of the Oscars where some of the biggest movies of the year at the box office were winning BP. 

 

Titanic, Gone with the Wind, Return of the King, Gladiator, Forest Gump, The Sting, both Godfathers, The Sound of Music.

 

I'm not saying that is what needs to happen every year. And I think last year, was a good example of a film that didn't have the all time box office return, that was clearly a audience favorite. But things use to be different. Big films audiences loved won.

 

Gladiator(I see it went up from 75% to 80% on RT) and Return of the King winning were such good years, indisputable classics and populist cinema at its most polished.  And a few years later you had The Departed and No Country For Old Men winning.  Like, films people actually watched and still remember and watch to this day.  Hell, American Beauty was around the same time too.

 

 

[JustLurking]

35 minutes ago, ThomasNicole said:

Yeah of course it’s a mess, do you see how Disney overall is doing? The problem comes from above , Disney is stucked and don’t know how to move forward, they only know how to sell nostalgia and this isn’t working anymore

 

LF was doing fine before TLJ that is one the most critically acclaimed blockbusters of the past decade, but when the fans turned into savage beasts, Disney freakout completely, ep IX was damage hard because of that. She didn’t pissed the fans, she gave creative freedom to a director that try to go into new places with the franchise and the freaks didn’t accept it, putting her in this weird position in a franchise that simply can’t move forward and Disney behind her putting pressure scared of online backlash.

 

The TV shows are supervised by other people way more than KK 

 

Indiana Jones is a damaged brand mainly because everyone hated Indy 4 and is being attacked online by the same weirdos

 

What is she supposed to do? It’s not her fault that all her plans of trying new things have to be stopped due to a bunch of loud weirdos.

 

Solo is probably the only movie where really the chaos seems to be because of her, and honestly that’s nothing unusual, Thor 2 have similar trouble production to keep in the Disney house

 

 

I think it's a weird mindset to have that fans just "have to accept it" because it's different? Taking wild swings is commendable and I'd like more of it in Hollywood, but that also doesn't mean anything that takes wild swings is automatically good. Which, imho, TLJ wasn't (it also wasn't the worst SW film up to that point, anyway...).

 

The weirdest thing is that they hired 2 directors that clearly wanted to take the trilogy in 2 completely different directions and they just kept scratching all plans the other tried to put in motion, it's such a ridiculous chimera of a trilogy it's hard to believe, but I'd blame it more on the suits for going into a TRILOGY with no fucking clue beforehand...

 

Anyway, online discourse is always going to be extremely toxic around a franchise like this, all you can do is try something new, make it good and hope it sticks.

 

Regardless, Disney will need a shakeup as a whole, Lucas Films may be the worst one off but it's not like the company isn't collecting bombs left right and center from every angle..

[Liiviig 1998]

1 hour ago, ThomasNicole said:

This obsession with Kathleen Kennedy is so funny 

 

She had an insanely well made career, i mean sure LucasFilm have problems but some of you simply ignore the job is nearly impossible when you keep having to please an audience that is completely bizarre and act like childs crying for anything 

 

 

 

 

She is a great producer and that cannot be disputed .

She is just not a good studio head and simply can't handle the stresses.

 

She is not the only to blame and others too are also at fault . Like  TFA my first starwars viewing experience but it's just rehash and overall studio rushed production with no plan set for the trilogy and we get three movies at conflict with each other and in the end it's all a mess. 

Rampant director firings and so on...

 

Sure the fanbase  is quite nitpicky and hard to please 

 

But Structure wise and in terms of the creative process LF is a mess and they are feel like they are just throwing shit on the wall and see what works. 

 

Sure not all is bad and some good stuff under Kennedy but they are cracks in the foundation of the franchise and LF and all started in 2012 when they were making plans for ST and now we are seeing the consequences

[MovieMan89]

2 hours ago, excel1 said:

 

 

LaBuff def. had some fans post-Transformers but I don't think it moved the needle much at all for Indiana Jones. He was hardly in the marketing. Crystal Skull felt bigger because it was coming off the flawless OT and many of the OT original die hards still flocked to theaters. There were a lot of people who were in their 20s foe the OT that were then in their 40s and took their kids to see Crystal Skull. That obviously is not the case any more.

 

Without question, the biggest difference between STAR WARS and Indiana Jones is Star Wars stayed highly culturally relevant in its dormant phase with toys, commercials, etc. It was another level to begin with and then stayed around. Indiana Jones, on the other hand, has disappeared from the pop culture scene since 2008. 

I don’t think the Indy character and premise gels great with gen z either for similar reasons as Bond. 

[MovieMan89]

2.5hrs for this just really sounds like such a slog and chore to me already. As someone who used to wish all the time Hollywood wouldn’t be so stubborn with their 120min blockbuster run times and let the theatrical cuts be longer, I must say this long movies trend since the pandemic seems to be getting a bit out of control. Some things really should just be 120 mins. 

[Potiki]

Just got out of watching this with my grandfather (who is in his 80s) was pretty damn good, both of us have it easily over Crystal Skull which is a film I probably like more than most but thank god there was no monkey business in this one if you catch my drift. For me this is the best big budget adventure film in recent time, no offence intended for the Jumanji sequels and Jungle Cruise which I enjoyed but this is on another level in terms of action and story. 

 

Personal ranking would be:
 

1. Raiders 

2. Temple of Doom

3. Dial of Destiny 

4. Last Crusade

5. Crystal Skull 

 

Also I'm not going to weigh in to whatever discourse is happening above. I will say this is probably the last Indy film (even if it earns a bunch of money hard to see Harrison Ford coming back and after Solo I doubt Lucasfilm would make an Indy without Ford) and I'm happy that this is in my opinion a much more fitting ending for the character than the fourth film. 

[Ken]

This film's development was (fittingly?) a wild ride.

When Disney landed the rights to Indy, I remember a person or two on the internet advocating continuing the franchise with an animated series. Then there was chatter about a complete reboot starring someone younger like Bradley Cooper or Chris Pratt. Ultimately, I think they decided to go with a fifth film because a) Ford came off a very warm reception from TFA, b) Spielberg came off of Oscar-winning Bridge of Spies, and c) they still badly wanted redemption from Crystal Skull even though everyone had gotten over it after eight years. Interestingly, this was announced while they were working on Solo, a prequel starring a younger guy in the title role. 

Then the date shifted from 2019 to 2020 (as their first post-sequel trilogy production) to 2021 (when Jon Kasdan wrote a draft) to 2022 (when Mangold replaced Spielberg), and after they finally shot the film: it was delayed again to 2023.

And if the movie does indeed tank after all that? Well, at least they have a shiny new non-Marvel, non-Star Wars film to pad out Disney+, I suppose.

[TerwillikerInst]

This is purely anecdotal, but I'm a member of several James Bond fan forums and as you might imagine they fit the target Indiana Jones revival sequel demographic perfectly, mostly middle-aged center/center-right white men. 

 

And while for ages the various Indiana Jones subthreads have been filled with a lot of negativity ("it's going to be woke", critical drinker videos, doomcock, all the usual suspects) those who have seen the movie have been pretty overwhelmingly positive and surprised at how positive they've been.

 

Not sure how much you can read into that necessarily, but I do think it might bode better for WOM, at least among that demographic. 

 

The question is, will they see it in theatres, and what will others think?

 

Edited June 29, 2023 by TerwillikerInst

[tonytr87]

1 hour ago, grey ghost said:

 

 

There seems to be a twenty year window where nostalgia is effective.

 

Keaton and Indy fell flat. It's possible certain geek franchises have audiences who age out after a while.

 

I think once your kids graduate high school you stop caring about some of this stuff.

 

For godsake the movie hasn't even opened yet. 

[MovieMan89]

17 minutes ago, tonytr87 said:

 

For godsake the movie hasn't even opened yet. 

It feels like the writing is on the wall, especially with how this summer has been. I’d be more inclined to think maybe older audiences will eventually turn out for it if not for MI and Oppy both stealing lots of thunder there. Older demos are not going to be going en masse to the theaters to see 3 movies this summer, one is enough of an ask. 

[ListenHunnyUrOver]

12 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

It feels like the writing is on the wall, especially with how this summer has been. I’d be more inclined to think maybe older audiences will eventually turn out for it if not for MI and Oppy both stealing lots of thunder there. Older demos are not going to be going en masse to the theaters to see 3 movies this summer, one is enough of an ask. 

Hollywood is expecting too much out of the older male demo and younger male demo. We need more female skewed movies like Barbie sprinkled in.