Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[JustLurking]

1 minute ago, hw64 said:

 

People keep saying this, but who's actually getting worked up here?

 

The only people I really see dooming are new posters who barely, if ever, show up here, and even then a lot of it is just concern trolling to try to provoke a reaction out of the regulars. Ironically the regulars, the people you'd expect to be most likely to have meltdowns, are some of the most calm posters here.

Yeah I guess so.

 

1 minute ago, wildphantom said:

of course I don’t think they’re nobody. I don’t understand why, having perfectly explained where I’m coming from, it has to turn into this massive argument. 
 

The general sentiment from frequent posters has never had this thing blowing up to absurd levels as we’ve talked box office all year long.  It just hasn’t. 
 

That’s what I’ve been trying to say, and therefore trying to be realistic as I see the flames starting to ignite. 
 

I take back ‘nobody’.  Happy? 
 

You are making up a consensus that doesn't exist and has never existed. It's like I'm reading a r/boxoffice/ post instead of one from a BOT user.

 

Peeps were predicting high well before the OW projections. That is simply a fact.

[Dragoncaine]

I actually watched Avatar for the first time with the re-release in theaters this year, and enjoyed it very much (8/10), but the third act didn't blow me away. It was supremely well shot, satisfying, and featured fluid camerawork and choreography which is refreshing compared to the near-nonexistent choreography in many blockbusters today, but I didn't feel like the scale was absurd, and I wasn't emotionally connected as deeply as I had hoped. So I'm really surprised by some of these "lack of scale in 3rd act" comments for TwoW. Looking forward to seeing it on Friday!

Edited December 14, 2022 by Dragoncaine

[stuart360]

4 minutes ago, hw64 said:

 

People keep saying this, but who's actually getting worked up here?

 

The only people I really see dooming are new posters who barely, if ever, show up here, and even then a lot of it is just concern trolling to try to provoke a reaction out of the regulars. Ironically the regulars, the people you'd expect to be most likely to have meltdowns, are some of the most calm posters here.

Its pretty funny seeing none thread regulars coming into the thread for the first time in months, telling us to calm down etc, when the regulars are more than calm with most of us keeping our lofty predictions.

It's a bit bizarre to be honest.🤣

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

And a lot of reviews and Youtubers have said the final act is epic, and makes up for any shortcomings in the prior 2 hours.

Who to believe!

marveldcfox is a very believable characters and I'm very positive both of the friends mentioned exist and told him the exact same thing as what Titanic just said

[wildphantom]

Just now, JustLurking said:

Yeah I guess so.

 

You are making up a consensus that doesn't exist and has never existed. It's like I'm reading a r/boxoffice/ post instead of one from a BOT user.

 

Peeps were predicting high well before the OW projections. That is simply a fact.

ok man. I can’t say anymore than I already have about it. I’ve explained since my ‘nobody’ post perfectly well that most frequent posters haven’t been predicting loony numbers. I can’t articulate it any better than that, and if I’m wrong about that then fine. 
 

I’m just not up for some massive argument when people aren’t reading what I’ve actually written to explain where I’m coming from. 
 

I think it’ll be massive. I’m rooting for it. I don’t think it’ll get close to the first. And I don’t think MOST posters even thought it would either. 

[marveldcfox]

Just now, stuart360 said:

And a lot of reviews and Youtubers have said the final act is epic, and makes up for any shortcomings in the prior 2 hours.

Who to believe!

It depends i guess what people want. Superhero/star wars movies have spoiled everyone. They want big whiz bang hell yeah moments like in IW, Endgame, NWH, rogue one. Let's see. I will watch it next weekend. 

I anyways realistically expected 2-2.1B WW . If it matches that, it's a win. 

[JustLurking]

Just now, stuart360 said:

Its pretty funny seeing none thread regulars coming into the thread for the first time in months, telling us to calm down etc, when the regulars are more than calm with most of us keeping our lofty predictions.

It's a bit bizarre to be honest.🤣

I am definitely a regular though. Just losing track of who's who in the midst of all the action.

[IronJimbo]

4 minutes ago, Dragoncaine said:

I actually watched Avatar for the first time with the re-release in theaters this year, and enjoyed it very much (8/10), but the third act didn't blow me away. It was supremely well shot, satisfying, and featured fluid camerawork and choreography which is refreshing compared to the near-nonexistent choreography in many blockbusters today, but I didn't feel like the scale was absurd, and I wasn't emotionally connected as deeply as I had hoped. So I'm really surprised by some of these "lack of scale in 3rd act" comments for TwoW. Looking forward to seeing it on Friday!

 

I wouldn't read too much into it. You can see from the trailers that the scale is less than the original.

Is it really going to be worse than the first because there's 50 skimwings on the screen instead of 500 ikrans?

 

To add to that, T2. A film known for it's incredible 3rd act, has far less "scale"

Edited December 14, 2022 by IronJimbo

[WittyUsername]

5 minutes ago, daftcat said:

Even if he did deliver a "masterpiece" (and I personally think the new film is fantastic), I don't think you'd see a much better reception than what we're seeing now. Avatar will forever be graded on a curve. The "backlash" from high brow types borne out of the first film's success (which paradoxically seems to have been co-opted by younger fans that prefer the more serialized blockbuster storytelling of the last 10-15 years) will forever taint this IP. The proof is in the pudding - critics seem to agree that this is a step up from the original, yet the numerical consensus is a notch lower. It's as if the first scored in the low sixties on MC, rather than the mid-80s. 

 

Avatar is no more full of clichés than any four quadrant blockbuster - particularly in recent memory. Its story is no more archetypical - particularly compared to the deluge of comic book movies that have been released over the last decade or so (as much as I enjoy them). Yet that's the reductive narrative that has emerged from the ashes of the first film, and it's only fermented in the interim. And the more cash and awards this one rakes in, the worse it will get - just as it did with the original. It may even intensify for future sequels now that the novelty of a new Avatar movie has worn off - I wouldn't be surprised to see the fourth or fifth film scoring outright negative reviews, despite no obvious drop in quality. 

 

For whatever reason, everyone seems to love Avatar - except for a very vocal, persistent, and perhaps growing minority of the online discourse that seems hellbent on applying a much higher standard to this than to other blockbusters. Perhaps that's earned, given the Cameron name. And I do see similarly high standards applied to other prestige directors (e.g. Nolan - though I think he earned the flak he got for Tenet)… but it can be a bit frustrating. And it's weird that it comes from both high-brow cinephiles that see the film as a vapid technical exercise and an affront to cinema, and the more mainstream fans that get triggered by the notion that Cameron's filmography harkens back to a better era of blockbuster filmography. 

If the problem some of these “highbrow” critics have with the movie is that it’s overly simplistic and feels more like a tech demo than a movie, then that seems rather hypocritical when you look at all the raves they’ve given for TGM. TGM doesn’t exactly have a complex or thought-provoking story, with three-dimensional characters either. It’s a Jerry Bruckheimer movie that was praised for being fun escapism with some cool aerial set pieces. 

[stuart360]

2 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

marveldcfox is a very believable characters and I'm very positive both of the friends mentioned exist and told him the exact same thing as what Titanic just said

Yeah i noticed that edit too he he🤣

[XXRDJisDoctorDoom]

I just reran the numbers with a lower threshold across the board (including only $625M DOM and $400M China) and it still came out to $2.15B

 

We’re gonna be fine, folks!

[IronJimbo]

1 minute ago, WittyUsername said:

If the problem some of these “highbrow” critics have with the movie is that it’s overly simplistic and feels more like a tech demo than a movie, then that seems rather hypocritical when you look at all the raves they’ve given for TGM. TGM doesn’t exactly have a complex or thought-provoking story, with three-dimensional characters either. It’s a Jerry Bruckheimer movie that was praised for being fun escapism with some cool aerial set pieces. 

Which completely adds to daftcat's excellent post. There is a meme around Avatar that can't be easily shaken, that it has a basic/bad plot.

[daftcat]

8 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

And a lot of reviews and Youtubers have said the final act is epic, and makes up for any shortcomings in the prior 2 hours.

Who to believe!

The suggestion that the final hour lacks scale is absurd. Unless you have a ridiculously high baseline, or felt the same way about the original, or Titanic, etc.

It's what you've come to expect from Cameron, and then some. 

[titanic2187]

16 minutes ago, Nero said:

Where were you? Didn't see you much in the thread 👀

Hi! Long time no see! Happy ending 2022! I just decided to focus more on real life stuff instead of some self-important posters here. After all, it is the real world connection that you can "summon" to accompany you to see the movie in theater such as Avatar 2! I mean, having 6 friends joining you watching a 3 hours movie on Wednesday night with that pricy IMAX 3D ticket?  Come on, these people deserve some attention! 

 

11 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

And a lot of reviews and Youtubers have said the final act is epic, and makes up for any shortcomings in the prior 2 hours.

Who to believe!

The final act is incredible and great like T2! But I wouldn't call it epic. 

Edited December 14, 2022 by titanic2187

[danziger]

2 minutes ago, stuart360 said:

And a lot of reviews and Youtubers have said the final act is epic, and makes up for any shortcomings in the prior 2 hours.

Who to believe!

 

So evidently the final battle doesn't come down to saving the entire world like so many blockbusters these days, but for me that sounds refreshing. I'm ready for something that has more personal stakes. Aliens' ending was basically moms fighting for their children and that turned out ok.

[Deuce66]

I'm going to XX this out as a potential viewing option, I keep hearing very mixed/mostly negative things about this format. 

 

 

 

[IronJimbo]

2 minutes ago, XXR Tulkun Rider said:

I just reran the numbers with a lower threshold across the board (including only $625M DOM and $400M China) and it still came out to $2.15B

 

We’re gonna be fine, folks!

You realise if it does open to your new OW predictions then a smaller than 20% drop is in play for weekend 2

Edited December 14, 2022 by IronJimbo

[stuart360]

4 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

It depends i guess what people want. Superhero/star wars movies have spoiled everyone. They want big whiz bang hell yeah moments like in IW, Endgame, NWH, rogue one. Let's see. I will watch it next weekend. 

I anyways realistically expected 2-2.1B WW . If it matches that, it's a win. 

Well i'm looking forward to the vistas, the nature, the animals, the underwater details. Kind of like some of the reviewers who said they were missing plot points because they were just mesmerized by what they were seeing.

Not everyone is going to see it just for the action, a lot of people want to see the beauty of the world, hipefully with some cool ambient music in those scenes.

[dignam]

So guys, i'm at the cinema, just 20min and 13 years of waiting is over 

[JustLurking]

2 minutes ago, XXR Tulkun Rider said:

I just reran the numbers with a lower threshold across the board (including only $625M DOM and $400M China) and it still came out to $2.15B

 

We’re gonna be fine, folks!

Yeah I mean, I have no idea why the conversation has shifted to TGM numbers and how it wouldn't be disappointing if it came under that and whatnot.

 

Like...predictions are definitely taking a hit across the board but I don't see anything suggesting this thing will struggle for 1.5b right now. That still seems like crazy talk to me.