Avatar: The Way of Water | 16 DEC 2022 | Don't worry guys, critics like it

[Sheldon Cr]

2 hours ago, NCsoft said:

I would suggest that factoring in global inflation, and market expansion, a film would have to do ~3.5 Billion in 2020 to be roughly the same size hit as Avatar, now what if Avatar 2 is an even bigger hit than Avatar?😉

Lol then dear nc , we go around and give those naysayers one.hell of a hotfoot😉👍

[DAJK]

I don't remember a single line from Avatar. Titanic and Terminator on the other hand...

[Sheldon Cr]

6 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

THIS IS OUR LAND

GET SOME

I SEE YOU

MY JAKE! MY JAKE!

WHATCHA GONNA DO RANGER RICK? SHOOT ME?.... I CAN DO THAT

IT WILL BE HUNANE... MORE OR LESS

YOU SHOULD SEE YOUR FACES

 

 

 

I'll see to it about your legs!

Your real legs!!

 

I swear I will not kill anybody!!

 

Come with me, if you want to live!!

 

"Jake!! " Alahhhhh has heard you!

 

" Outstanding!"

 

"  I will be your last shadow!"

"Not on my watch!"

 

" You know I will fight" " You l

now this", but I and your people could use a little help here!"

 

" Bitch you never backed awy from anything in your life!"

" Now fight!  "Fightttt!" "Fighttt!"

 

" What you mean they cut the power?"  They're animals Mann?"

 

Legendary lines and moments from the Cameron arsenal!

Edited May 1, 2019 by Sheldon Cr

[Sheldon Cr]

6 hours ago, NCsoft said:

Well, let hope Avatar 2 steps up its game and give us some memorable quotes.

Rem Nc Avatar gave us a ton of memorable quotes. Don't feed the naysayers. 

 

Avatar2 will do more of the same.. And I think its the other epic movies that need to up their game as in my opinion none have come close to experience the masses had when they saw Avatar in theaters in 2009. 

So it looks like it takes JC to take it to the next level over himself😎😎. I think that's pure hating when someone states they cant remember a single line from Avatar. When you see people still using quotes from the movie which was almost 11 yrs ago.👍

[NCsoft]

21 minutes ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Rem Nc Avatar gave us a ton of memorable quotes. Don't feed the naysayers. 



Of course, Kal, there's a few lines there that I'll always remember.

I'll always remember "This is our land" "I see you" "You're not in Kansas anymore, we're on Pandora"

But the things is, I don't think widely cited quote is important. The recognizable character and memorable quote arguments against Avatar are based on traditional view of films' impact on popular culture. These are fundamentally unfair because pop culture in the west is NO LONGER accepting new material, so regardless if it's Star Wars (been there since 1977), or LOTR (established novel series since 1954), or MCU (these characters have been a part of pop culture since 1950, and spider man and X-men are already highly popular movies), or DC (do I need say anything), or Alien or Jurassic park or Terminator or Mad Max, these things have existed forever, and they have pretty much stolen this generation's right to have their own material.

Some films actively try to manufacture citable dialogues, TDK is one example, but I think the dialogues wouldn't be widely cited at all if it didn't come from Joker (widely known character in pop culture), especially Ledger's joker.

 

A few characters Cameron wrote himself would be hard to compare against characters who are relevant in pop cultures for half a century, especially when the Avatar had no sequels yet and was released ten years ago.

 

I see Avatar's impact being oriented toward the technological advancement it brings, the thrilling visual-audio theater going experience that it provides,  creating a world that we always want to go back to. That, to me, defines its influence and matters far more than a few lines. It's not that Avatar is not influential, it's the definition film influence being too narrow. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by NCsoft

[Sheldon Cr]

7 hours ago, Deep Wang said:

 

Ah yes! The iconic quotes from James Cameron: 

 

"Get away from her you bitch!"

"I'll be back"

"Hasta la vista, baby"

"I'm the king of the world!"

 

 and

 

"This is great!!"

 

High five Deep Wang..

 

Cant wait to see that trailer from the director of Aliens, Terminator 2, Titanic, Avatar comes the Return to Pandora etc 😎😎

 

Remember:

 

 

 

---Avatar 2 will Shatter the 3.5. billion mark worldwide.

[Sheldon Cr]

1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

Of course, Kal, there's a few lines there that I'll always remember.

I'll always remember "This is our land" "I see you" "You're not in Kansas anymore, we're on Pandora"

But the things is, I don't think widely cited quote is important. The recognizable character and memorable quote arguments against Avatar are based on traditional view of films' impact on popular culture. These are fundamentally unfair because pop culture in the west is NO LONGER accepting new material, so regardless if it's Star Wars (been there since 1977), or LOTR (established novel series since 1954), or MCU (these characters have been a part of pop culture since 1950, and spider man and X-men are already highly popular movies), or DC (do I need say anything), or Alien or Jurassic park or Terminator or Mad Max, these things have existed forever, and they have pretty much stolen this generation's right to have their own material.

Some films actively try to manufa

cture citable dialogues, TDK is one example, but I think the dialogues wouldn't be widely cited at all if it didn't come from Joker (widely known character in pop culture), especially Ledger's joker.

 

A few characters Cameron wrote himself would be hard to compare against characters who are relevant in pop cultures for half a century, especially when the Avatar had no sequels yet and was released ten years ago.

 

I see Avatar's impact being oriented toward the technological advancement it brings, the thrilling visual-audio theater going experience that it provides,  creating a world that we always want to go back to. That, to me, defines its influence and matters far more than a few lines. It's not that Avatar is not influential, it's the definition film influence being too narrow. 

I hear you NC and whole heartingly agree. This brilliant masterpiece by JC that brought a whole new technology in visual, sound and 3d and finally used as a tool and not gimic. James Cameron finally had what he needed to  create the world's first photo realistic sense memory living breathing simulation of an alien world to tell a love and finding yourself story , definitely rates on levels so much higher than film s with memorable lines. This achievement created a Pandora so real, folks actually became so filled with joy and then depression and some even suicidal in realizing the world is over after 3hrs with no way to go back without  all the tech of a great digital 3d and ultra surround sound theater at ones disposal.

 

Just wow. I mean there were moments when I actually forgot I was in a Mega Imax theater and was in the bushes with Jake and Netryteri running through the jungles of Pandora. Diving off cliffs and feeling it in my stomach on skybirds....etc

 

Holy moly fellow Pandorians, I wonder if any other filmmaker will ever pull such an engrossing experience tour de force that Avtar 1 and soon 2 will push to even greater heights. JC states Avatar 2 will have some having accidents.lol

 

 

 

We will show the bo and the world that this is our land!!! Get ready!

👍😎

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sheldon Cr

[Sheldon Cr]

10 hours ago, NCsoft said:

I would suggest that factoring in global inflation, and market expansion, a film would have to do ~3.5 Billion in 2020 to be roughly the same size hit as Avatar, now what if Avatar 2 is an even bigger hit than Avatar?😉

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=avatar.htm

 

Look at these numbers in an 85-90 %. Smaller os market and even avatars domestic tcs are far less than FA and EG , but none the less domestically Avatar adjusts to around  900m . OS You can do a ruff estimate of what these numbers would look like in todays far increased markets. Avatar would proably have around 2.8-3b in a 2019 scenario from the Os run alone. This is so exciting for AVATAR 2. 200 plus mil in China in 2009! 175 mil in France, 171mil in Japan, 150mil in Uk. So many countries with nearly 200 mil in a 2009 os market.

 

What in the world!!😨😨

Did we hear ftf say a billion less than avatar is possible??

😉😉

 

So for a film to be as large as avatar I feel it would have to make. At least 3.8 to 3.9 billion overall by our 2019 standards between the domestic and os tally. Crazy my Avatar fam, but that's the power Avatar has on moviegoers everywhere.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sheldon Cr

[NCsoft]

3 hours ago, Sheldon Cr said:

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=avatar.htm

 

Look at these numbers in an 85-90 %. Smaller os market and even avatars domestic tcs are far less than FA and EG , but none the less domestically Avatar adjusts to around  900m . OS You can do a ruff estimate of what these numbers would look like in todays far increased markets. Avatar would proably have around 2.8-3b in a 2019 scenario from the Os run alone. This is so exciting for AVATAR 2. 200 plus mil in China in 2009! 175 mil in France, 171mil in Japan, 150mil in Uk. So many countries with nearly 200 mil in a 2009 os market.

  

What in the world!!😨😨

Did we hear ftf say a billion less than avatar is possible??

😉😉

 

So for a film to be as large as avatar I feel it would have to make. At least 3.8 to 3.9 billion overall by our 2019 standards between the domestic and os tally. Crazy my Avatar fam, but that's the power Avatar has on moviegoers everywhere.

Yeah, seeing people bringing in that exchange rate argument against Avatar with no consideration of two far more important factors (global inflation + developing market expansion) is frustrating. They tried that with TFA back a few years ago, somehow came to the conclusion that overseas TFA would be equally as impressive as Avatar if not for exchange rate (😂 yes, you heard me right, that movie which grossed less overseas than Furious 7). Now they have a new champion, a much more respectable one, to be fair. And the things is, I keep praising endgame for its epic run, and its crazy good numbers while they keep downplaying Avatar, some saying it's "dead in a ditch, a fad", but yet somehow, we are the crazy and annoying ones....I'm pretty much done with this whole inflation and market expansion argument for now, it's just a waste of time I feel.

 

It's not that Endgame's global run is not impressive, it very much is impressive. However, Avatar set the global record in 2009 by raising the original record by 50%+ from Titanic. At 2.78B, it was literally testing the water for global ceiling back in 2009, is 2.78B anywhere close to global ceiling for a single movie in 2019, with china being 10 times bigger? Of course not. Avatar almost tripled the second highest grosser in 2009 worldwide. I just don't understand why is it so hard to celebrate endgame's achievement, while simultaneously acknowledging what is possibly the second most impressive global run of all time (after Titanic) as something more than " a fad dead in a ditch", is that really too much to ask?

 

Now as for the more interesting question of, what would be the equivalent of a Avatar sized hit in 2019? I was originally saying 3.5B+, but I think it's actually 3.7B+ 

If we were to trust this global inflation adjusted number on wiki: then Avatar would be adjusted to 3.25B back in 2017, which would be more than 3.3B today easily. Then we can play the exchange rate game, let's say Avatar's number was inflated by $350M due to exchange rate advantages, this takes Avatar to 2.95B, still higher than Avatar's original gross, this is because domestic inflation matters, and that's not really affected by whatever exchange rate advantage that Avatar had, and domestically, Avatar adjust to $876M, $116M more than Avatar's 2009 gross, and that adds to its global total. The global inflation for Avatar more than offset the currency exchange advantage Avatar may have had.

We don't even need to mention the massive differences between the amount of premium screens, and 3D screens available in 2009 vs 2019.

Highest-grossing films as of 2017 adjusted for inflation^[33][Inf]

Rank	Title	Worldwide gross  (2017 $)	Year
1	Gone with the Wind	$3,703,000,000	1939
2	Avatar	$3,251,000,000	2009
3	Titanic	T$3,078,000,000	1997
4	Star Wars	$3,041,000,000	1977
5	The Sound of Music	$2,547,000,000	1965

 

So if we take this 2.95B number adjusting for both exchange rate and inflation, and start gauging for what a Avatar sized hit would have done today in the rapidly expanding market, that's a total guessing game. There's no way to properly adjust for that. China is 10X bigger than it was in 2009, and Avatar grossed $200M back then. Using market expansion ratio brings that to about $2B in China in 2019, if we use 2010 (post Avatar expansion) market, that still brings it to $1.33B, if we use the fact that Avatar tripled the highest grossing film in China at the time, we can adjust it to $2.6B in China. All of these numbers are unrealistic, only useful to show how big Avatar was. However, it would not be inappropriate to say that a Avatar sized hit would have grossed at least the same as Wolf Warrior 2 did back in 2017, which is $850M, I think that's a very conservative estimate considering even endgame is on its way to $650M in China. That's brings Avatar's gross in 2019 to about 3.55B alone, now accounting for some inflation in China over the last 10 years, Avatar would still comfortably sit at 3.5B, just adjusting conservatively for China expansion.

The thing is, China is not the only market that expanded, South Korea, India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Latin America etc... have all expanded significantly in the last decade, which Avatar was not able to fully take advantage of .

Given these, I don't feel like its an exaggeration to say that in order for a film released in 2019 to be a comparable phenomenon to Avatar, it would need to gross 3.7B+, which is still not the ceiling for a single film globally in 2019. There's actually nothing stopping a film grossing 4.5B + worldwide today, all things considered. 

 

I don't know if Avatar 2 will be as big of a hit as Avatar 1 was, but if it were the same phenomenon as Avatar, maybe the bar for that would be around 3.7B, exciting times ahead 😍😍😍

[NCsoft]

4 hours ago, Sheldon Cr said:

Did we hear ftf say a billion less than avatar is possible??

😉😉

 

Well, 1B less globally than Avatar is possible if Avatar 2 is a WOM failure 🤣. But I have enough faith in JC to think that it won't be a failure.

Edited May 2, 2019 by NCsoft

[TomCruiseTop]

36 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

Yeah, seeing people bringing in that exchange rate argument against Avatar with no consideration of two far more important factors (global inflation + developing market expansion) is frustrating. They tried that with TFA back a few years ago, somehow came to the conclusion that overseas TFA would be equally as impressive as Avatar if not for exchange rate (😂 yes, you heard me right, that movie which grossed less overseas than Furious 7). Now they have a new champion, a much more respectable one, to be fair. And the things is, I keep praising endgame for its epic run, and its crazy good numbers while they keep downplaying Avatar, some saying it's "dead in a ditch, a fad", but yet somehow, we are the crazy and annoying ones....I'm pretty much done with this whole inflation and market expansion argument for now, it's just a waste of time I feel.

 

It's not that Endgame's global run is not impressive, it very much is impressive. However, Avatar set the global record in 2009 by raising the original record by 50%+ from Titanic. At 2.78B, it was literally testing the water for global ceiling back in 2009, is 2.78B anywhere close to global ceiling for a single movie in 2019, with china being 10 times bigger? Of course not. Avatar almost tripled the second highest grosser in 2009 worldwide. I just don't understand why is it so hard to celebrate endgame's achievement, while simultaneously acknowledging what is possibly the second most impressive global run of all time (after Titanic) as something more than " a fad dead in a ditch", is that really too much to ask?

 

Now as for the more interesting question of, what would be the equivalent of a Avatar sized hit in 2019? I was originally saying 3.5B+, but I think it's actually 3.7B+ 

If we were to trust this global inflation adjusted number on wiki: then Avatar would be adjusted to 3.25B back in 2017, which would be more than 3.3B today easily. Then we can play the exchange rate game, let's say Avatar's number was inflated by $350M due to exchange rate advantages, this takes Avatar to 2.95B, still higher than Avatar's original gross, this is because domestic inflation matters, and that's not really affected by whatever exchange rate advantage that Avatar had, and domestically, Avatar adjust to $876M, $116M more than Avatar's 2009 gross, and that adds to its global total. The global inflation for Avatar more than offset the currency exchange advantage Avatar may have had.

We don't even need to mention the massive differences between the amount of premium screens, and 3D screens available in 2009 vs 2019.

Highest-grossing films as of 2017 adjusted for inflation^[33][Inf]

Rank	Title	Worldwide gross  (2017 $)	Year
1	Gone with the Wind	$3,703,000,000	1939
2	Avatar	$3,251,000,000	2009
3	Titanic	T$3,078,000,000	1997
4	Star Wars	$3,041,000,000	1977
5	The Sound of Music	$2,547,000,000	1965

 

So if we take this 2.95B number adjusting for both exchange rate and inflation, and start gauging for what a Avatar sized hit would have done today in the rapidly expanding market, that's a total guessing game. There's no way to properly adjust for that. China is 10X bigger than it was in 2009, and Avatar grossed $200M back then. Using market expansion ratio brings that to about $2B in China in 2019, if we use 2010 (post Avatar expansion) market, that still brings it to $1.33B, if we use the fact that Avatar tripled the highest grossing film in China at the time, we can adjust it to $2.6B in China. All of these numbers are unrealistic, only useful to show how big Avatar was. However, it would not be inappropriate to say that a Avatar sized hit would have grossed at least the same as Wolf Warrior 2 did back in 2017, which is $850M, I think that's a very conservative estimate considering even endgame is on its way to $650M in China. That's brings Avatar's gross in 2019 to about 3.55B alone, now accounting for some inflation in China over the last 10 years, Avatar would still comfortably sit at 3.5B, just adjusting conservatively for China expansion.

The thing is, China is not the only market that expanded, South Korea, India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Latin America etc... have all expanded significantly in the last decade, which Avatar was not able to fully take advantage of .

Given these, I don't feel like its an exaggeration to say that in order for a film released in 2019 to be a comparable phenomenon to Avatar, it would need to gross 3.7B+, which is still not the ceiling for a single film globally in 2019. There's actually nothing stopping a film grossing 4.5B + worldwide today, all things considered. 

 

I don't know if Avatar 2 will be as big of a hit as Avatar 1 was, but if it were the same phenomenon as Avatar, maybe the bar for that would be around 3.7B, exciting times ahead 😍😍😍

Great write up NCsoft, highlighting just how out of touch people can be when they say A2 is going to fail to break $2B. 

 

Also seeing Kal active shows that it's coming folks. 

[alibaba3317]

15 hours ago, IronJimbo said:

THIS IS OUR LAND

GET SOME

I SEE YOU

MY JAKE! MY JAKE!

WHATCHA GONNA DO RANGER RICK? SHOOT ME?.... I CAN DO THAT

IT WILL BE HUNANE... MORE OR LESS

YOU SHOULD SEE YOUR FACES

 

 

 

"This is PAPA DRAGON"

[NCsoft]

22 minutes ago, JamesCameronScholar said:

Also seeing Kal active shows that it's coming folks. 

So nice to have you, Jimbo and Kal all being around and active at the same time!

Make sure this still happens next December 😉

[IronJimbo]

43 minutes ago, NCsoft said:

So nice to have you, Jimbo and Kal all being around and active at the same time!

Make sure this still happens next December 😉

Eywa calls us

[HouseOfTheSun]

Avatar 2 shall do about 0.5EG. 

[NCsoft]

9 minutes ago, IronJimbo said:

Eywa calls us

This is what "The Quest for Eywa" means😂

[TomCruiseTop]

1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

So nice to have you, Jimbo and Kal all being around and active at the same time!

Make sure this still happens next December 😉

Only death can stop me. 

 

42 minutes ago, HouseOfTheSun said:

Avatar 2 shall do about 0.5EG. 

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery. It's nice to see that Jim Gang actually does have an impact around here, no matter how hard people try to pretend it doesn't. 

[Sheldon Cr]

2 hours ago, NCsoft said:

Yeah, seeing people bringing in that exchange rate argument against Avatar with no consideration of two far more important factors (global inflation + developing market expansion) is frustrating. They tried that with TFA back a few years ago, somehow came to the conclusion that overseas TFA would be equally as impressive as Avatar if not for exchange rate (😂 yes, you heard me right, that movie which grossed less overseas than Furious 7). Now they have a new champion, a much more respectable one, to be fair. And the things is, I keep praising endgame for its epic run, and its crazy good numbers while they keep downplaying Avatar, some saying it's "dead in a ditch, a fad", but yet somehow, we are the crazy and annoying ones....I'm pretty much done with this whole inflation and market expansion argument for now, it's just a waste of time I feel.

 

It's not that Endgame's global run is not impressive, it very much is impressive. However, Avatar set the global record in 2009 by raising the original record by 50%+ from Titanic. At 2.78B, it was literally testing the water for global ceiling back in 2009, is 2.78B anywhere close to global ceiling for a single movie in 2019, with china being 10 times bigger? Of course not. Avatar almost tripled the second highest grosser in 2009 worldwide. I just don't understand why is it so hard to celebrate endgame's achievement, while simultaneously acknowledging what is possibly the second most impressive global run of all time (after Titanic) as something more than " a fad dead in a ditch", is that really too much to ask?

 

Now as for the more interesting question of, what would be the equivalent of a Avatar sized hit in 2019? I was originally saying 3.5B+, but I think it's actually 3.7B+ 

If we were to trust this global inflation adjusted number on wiki: then Avatar would be adjusted to 3.25B back in 2017, which would be more than 3.3B today easily. Then we can play the exchange rate game, let's say Avatar's number was inflated by $350M due to exchange rate advantages, this takes Avatar to 2.95B, still higher than Avatar's original gross, this is because domestic inflation matters, and that's not really affected by whatever exchange rate advantage that Avatar had, and domestically, Avatar adjust to $876M, $116M more than Avatar's 2009 gross, and that adds to its global total. The global inflation for Avatar more than offset the currency exchange advantage Avatar may have had.

We don't even need to mention the massive differences between the amount of premium screens, and 3D screens available in 2009 vs 2019.

Highest-grossing films as of 2017 adjusted for inflation^[33][Inf]

Rank	Title	Worldwide gross  (2017 $)	Year
1	Gone with the Wind	$3,703,000,000	1939
2	Avatar	$3,251,000,000	2009
3	Titanic	T$3,078,000,000	1997
4	Star Wars	$3,041,000,000	1977
5	The Sound of Music	$2,547,000,000	1965

 

So if we take this 2.95B number adjusting for both exchange rate and inflation, and start gauging for what a Avatar sized hit would have done today in the rapidly expanding market, that's a total guessing game. There's no way to properly adjust for that. China is 10X bigger than it was in 2009, and Avatar grossed $200M back then. Using market expansion ratio brings that to about $2B in China in 2019, if we use 2010 (post Avatar expansion) market, that still brings it to $1.33B, if we use the fact that Avatar tripled the highest grossing film in China at the time, we can adjust it to $2.6B in China. All of these numbers are unrealistic, only useful to show how big Avatar was. However, it would not be inappropriate to say that a Avatar sized hit would have grossed at least the same as Wolf Warrior 2 did back in 2017, which is $850M, I think that's a very conservative estimate considering even endgame is on its way to $650M in China. That's brings Avatar's gross in 2019 to about 3.55B alone, now accounting for some inflation in China over the last 10 years, Avatar would still comfortably sit at 3.5B, just adjusting conservatively for China expansion.

The thing is, China is not the only market that expanded, South Korea, India, Vietnam, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Philippines, Latin America etc... have all expanded significantly in the last decade, which Avatar was not able to fully take advantage of .

Given these, I don't feel like its an exaggeration to say that in order for a film released in 2019 to be a comparable phenomenon to Avatar, it would need to gross 3.7B+, which is still not the ceiling for a single film globally in 2019. There's actually nothing stopping a film grossing 4.5B + worldwide today, all things considered. 

 

I don't know if Avatar 2 will be as big of a hit as Avatar 1 was, but if it were the same phenomenon as Avatar, maybe the bar for that would be around 3.7B, exciting times ahead 😍😍😍

I second that and bravo and Great and awesome right up NC to show what kind of sequel potential we are talking here. Wooohoo...The naysayers talk about what could go wrong, but looking at the power of JCs fans and his track record on his personal helmed mega projects. What happens if all goes right??!!!

 

 

[Sheldon Cr]

1 hour ago, NCsoft said:

So nice to have you, Jimbo and Kal all being around and active at the same time!

Make sure this still happens next December 😉

The most high willing. Myself  and all our merry awesome brood will be here Dec 2020-2021 and beyond witnessing the glory of invincibility that is ..Avatar 2 and all Pandorians coming to shake up the world yet again  JC style!!

Edited May 2, 2019 by Sheldon Cr

[cdsacken]

Delusional gawd awful analysis for China. Avatar 2 won't even beat Wolf Warrior 2 imo in China. An original with no history behind it in Today's market 600 is very generous.