Fanboy Wars Thread: Personal Attacks not allowed | With Digital Fur Technology

[Goffe]

7 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

Edgar Wright's wouldn't have been much different. 

interesting, you are basing that on what?

 

It makes little sense to me that Marvel would wait so long for Wright's Ant-Man, fire him over creative differences and then get another dude that would make similar film.

[Blankments]

17 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

Edgar Wright's wouldn't have been much different. 

 

 

You can't honestly believe that. The editing style on Wright's films are miles away from what ANT-MAN has. Same with the way he shoots action (although the action is the best part of ANT-MAN). Also, the shitty Falcon subplot is confirmed to not be in Wright's version.

 

8 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I know it's become a meme and all, but honestly I think this whole Martha thing is way overblown. It wasn't executed perfectly but it worked for me. People just love to take it literally, I guess, because it's funnier than way. Of all the things to slam BVS for, that moment wouldn't be a major one for me. 

Agreed. The movie is total shit IMO, but Martha didn't bother me when I watched it and still doesn't.

[Kalo]

Just now, filmlover said:

I will not stand for any kind of Thomas the Tank Engine shade. No siree pal.

 

Even if you were forced to watch it for hours? and the way they talk is creepy, their mouths don't move and their eyes turn over in their head like they are possessed or something. 

[The Futurist]

We ll never know about Ant Man.

 

The only thing we know is Wright worked a lot on the movie, pre production, pre viz stuff so there are probably lots of his scenes/ideas that remained in the final movie but to what extent is anyone s guess.

[filmlover]

Just now, Kalo said:

 

Even if you were forced to watch it for hours? and the way they talk is creepy, their mouths don't move and their eyes turn over in their head like they are possessed or something. 

I never really got into the TV shows (yes, a large part of the reason being that their mouths never moved) but have always admired the train sets (well, train sets in general but still). I will be buying one for my little one next year for his birthday.

[Mango]

4 minutes ago, Blank Panther said:

You can't honestly believe that. The editing style on Wright's films are miles away from what ANT-MAN has. Same with the way he shoots action (although the action is the best part of ANT-MAN). Also, the shitty Falcon subplot is confirmed to not be in Wright's version.

 

I believe the Falcon scene wasn't in the Wright version, but people give it wayyyyy too much flack. It's a fairly short action sequence that, had it not been in it, would have easily been another scene where Scott was required to get plot device A from some top secret location. 

[Dementeleus]

10 minutes ago, filmlover said:

I personally found the whole set-up of that bit to be just so silly and awkward. "Save Martha!" If I were Superman I would've expected Batman's answer to that being "fuckin' who?"

 

I'm not gonna watch it again just to see if I read the scene differently, but what I took away from it was Supes was trying to say "Martha Kent" but didn't finish because he was getting his neck crushed. 

[WrathOfHan]

6 minutes ago, Goffe said:

interesting, you are basing that on what?

 

It makes little sense to me that Marvel would wait so long for Wright's Ant-Man, fire him over creative differences and then get another dude that would make similar film.

 

6 minutes ago, Blank Panther said:

You can't honestly believe that. The editing style on Wright's films are miles away from what ANT-MAN has. Same with the way he shoots action (although the action is the best part of ANT-MAN). Also, the shitty Falcon subplot is confirmed to not be in Wright's version.

 

Agreed. The movie is total shit IMO, but Martha didn't bother me when I watched it and still doesn't.

Based on what I've gathered from interviews:

 

The only major plot differences are the MCU tie ins and Hank living.

Hope and Darren are supposedly more fleshed out in the final version.

Janet was only mentioned and there was no flashback in the original script.

What jokes are Wright's and what jokes are Reed/McKay obviously aren't clear. You'd expect the tips to be from Wright but they were in the rewrite. Most of the final battle was from the original script I believe.

 

The only thing I don't buy was that the Falcon stuff didn't get added until McKay was on board; we all know Wright left because of the tie ins.

[Goffe]

12 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I know it's become a meme and all, but honestly I think this whole Martha thing is way overblown. It wasn't executed perfectly but it worked for me. People just love to take it literally, I guess, because it's funnier than way. Of all the things to slam BVS for, that moment wouldn't be a major one for me. 

in the universe where Batman is a broken individual and is still tormented by his parents death, it kinda makes sense.

 

the execution wasn't the best like you said, but it was far away from being the worst thing in the film. It was everything that followed it that sucked.

[rukaio101]

5 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I know it's become a meme and all, but honestly I think this whole Martha thing is way overblown. It wasn't executed perfectly but it worked for me. People just love to take it literally, I guess, because it's funnier than way. Of all the things to slam BVS for, that moment wouldn't be a major one for me. 

Personally, I think it could've worked if Snyder had any ability to keep to his themes and set them up properly. I actually do genuinely like the idea that bringing up Martha's name allowed Bats to emphasise with Superman, to see him as something more than just an alien, to see him as someone with a life and family of his own and even with some (coincidental) similarities with Bats's own life. 

 

The problem is that the movie failed miserably at setting that up. 

 

Seriously, it'd be fine if the movie had a focused, clear running theme of Batman insisting Superman is alien and inhuman and can't possibly be empathised with, only for the finale to flip it on his head. Maybe even going on a rant at his parent's grave to Alfred about how 'that thing isn't human. It doesn't have empathy or humanity or a mother who cared for it and taught it right from wrong.' You know, interesting, direct foreshadowing for the resolution. But the movie is filled with so many other pointless, barely explored talking points, delivered tediously, that whenever Bruce actually did bring up the whole 'Supes not being a man' thing, it's barely noticeable and, in the minds of the viewers, is simply washed away in the tide of other unexplored talking points and pointless plot threads. As such, the Martha reveal comes so out of left field that it just becomes ridiculous.

 

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that Wonder Woman should've been the one to stop the fight. Not in an 'Oh you silly boys' sort of way, but by simply getting them to sit down and see common ground. After all, she is supposed to be a diplomat, right? Plus it would've actually given her something substantive to do in the movie other than be a walking advertisement for her own movie. 

 

[filmlover]

3 minutes ago, Telemachos said:

 

I'm not gonna watch it again just to see if I read the scene differently, but what I took away from it was Supes was trying to say "Martha Kent" but didn't finish because he was getting his neck crushed. 

That still doesn't make it less awkward lol. "My mother" would've made sense.

 

But that wasn't the only thing awkward about that whole thing. I mean:

 

 

lol.

[Water Bottle]

I think we can all agree that BvS is worse than Batman and Robin.

[filmlover]

1 minute ago, Water Bottle said:

I think we can all agree that BvS is worse than Batman and Robin.

LOL I did not like BvS at all but let's not go that extreme. Getting a colonoscopy is better than Batman and Robin.

[tonytr87]

Plot-wise I'm not sure Wright's version would've been that much different. However, stylistically it would've been very different. Parts of Ant-man looked a little amateurish visually. 

[The Futurist]

1 minute ago, tonytr87 said:

Plot-wise I'm not sure Wright's version would've been that much different. However, stylistically it would've been very different. Parts of Ant-man looked a little amateurish visually. 

 

 

The only thing I wonder is what was the deal breaker for both Wright & Feige or maybe Wright lost interest.

 

He left the project when ?

[Fancyarcher]

1 hour ago, The Futurist said:

 

Joss Whedon came back for Ultron because he had zero discussion with a Disney/ Marvel executive during the making of the first movie.

I am not making this up, the interviews are available.

 

Same for Gunn.

 

Same for the Russos.

 

Branagh, Johnston didn't complain about this mythical studio interference people like to talk about when they don't like something in a movie.

Oh that  movie was bad, blame the executives and their horrid interferences.

Movie is great , praise the director, executives had nothing to do with this greatness.

Black and white thinking.

 

Wright & Marvel had creative differences, it happens.

They called McKay to the rescue and made an awesome movie about a guy called Ant Man and it s getting a sequel.

 

Marvel probably saved Thor 2 from being an even worse movie, that s good producing when you know your filmmaker has no clue about what he is doing.

Terminator Megadrive proved Alan Taylor was one of the greats.

 

The world is always more complex than "oh Marvel movies are done by executives".

Many shades of grey in between.

Each movie, filmmaker, executive  is different.

Every big movie has tons of executives involved, even the "gasp" Nolans.

 

 

 

And the DC films aren't all about directors visions either. Not everything is black and white when it comes to these big studios. I'm aware of that.

[Blankments]

12 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

I believe the Falcon scene wasn't in the Wright version, but people give it wayyyyy too much flack. It's a fairly short action sequence that, had it not been in it, would have easily been another scene where Scott was required to get plot device A from some top secret location. 

 

"Action sequence"

 

It looks like Anthony Mackie trying to hit the air while Ant-Man dismantles his stuff. All it does is bloat the film with uninspired action rather than doing cool stealth stuff with the suit in the test heist.

 

8 minutes ago, WrathOfHan said:

 

Based on what I've gathered from interviews:

 

The only major plot differences are the MCU tie ins and Hank living.

Hope and Darren are supposedly more fleshed out in the final version.

Janet was only mentioned and there was no flashback in the original script.

What jokes are Wright's and what jokes are Reed/McKay obviously aren't clear. You'd expect the tips to be from Wright but they were in the rewrite. Most of the final battle was from the original script I believe.

 

The only thing I don't buy was that the Falcon stuff didn't get added until McKay was on board; we all know Wright left because of the tie ins.

What makes Wright's jokes brilliant is the editing. For example, we all know that "The Cure" joke was in Wright's script, but in the film itself, it's not that humorous although with the appropriate wacky editing, it could've been really fun.

 

I'm not even really referring to the script when I say I would've preferred Wright's version. Wright's direction (and the editing) on his own films are inspired in ways ANT-MAN never reaches. I only fear the repeat situation happening to BLACK PANTHER.

[Water Bottle]

1 minute ago, filmlover said:

LOL I did not like BvS at all but let's not go that extreme. Getting a colonoscopy is better than Batman and Robin.

 

What about Batman Forever?

[Dementeleus]

8 minutes ago, rukaio101 said:

Personally, I think it could've worked if Snyder had any ability to keep to his themes and set them up properly. I actually do genuinely like the idea that bringing up Martha's name allowed Bats to emphasise with Superman, to see him as something more than just an alien, to see him as someone with a life and family of his own and even with some (coincidental) similarities with Bats's own life. 

 

The problem is that the movie failed miserably at setting that up. 

 

Seriously, it'd be fine if the movie had a focused, clear running theme of Batman insisting Superman is alien and inhuman and can't possibly be empathised with, only for the finale to flip it on his head. Maybe even going on a rant at his parent's grave to Alfred about how 'that thing isn't human. It doesn't have empathy or humanity or a mother who cared for it and taught it right from wrong.' You know, interesting, direct foreshadowing for the resolution. But the movie is filled with so many other pointless, barely explored talking points, delivered tediously, that whenever Bruce actually did bring up the whole 'Supes not being a man' thing, it's barely noticeable and, in the minds of the viewers, is simply washed away in the tide of other unexplored talking points and pointless plot threads. As such, the Martha reveal comes so out of left field that it just becomes ridiculous.

 

Personally, I'm still of the opinion that Wonder Woman should've been the one to stop the fight. Not in an 'Oh you silly boys' sort of way, but by simply getting them to sit down and see common ground. After all, she is supposed to be a diplomat, right? Plus it would've actually given her something substantive to do in the movie other than be a walking advertisement for her own movie. 

 

 

I don't disagree with anything you say. It's the sort of moment where if you're really frustrated or disconnected from a movie, it's yet another reason why it's not working, and if you're going with the flow, you kinda give it a pass.

[The Panda]

10 minutes ago, Water Bottle said:

I think we can all agree that BvS is worse than Batman and Robin.

 

Batman and Robin is much more entertaining, I'll give it that.