Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Water Bottle]

14 hours ago, filmlover said:

Well, the entire Capitol building blew up and it's safe to say anyone who didn't have superpowers didn't survive.

 

It would've been nice to see Supe at least do something as an acknowledgement of him not catching what happened around him in time. But given the quality of the rest of the movie, it likely would've fumbled that too.

 

That's not necessarily how explosions work filmlover. Even if everyone inside the Capitol building blew up, there would be injured people around the Capitol building due to the fragments and stuff. Even so, normal bombs generally don't have a 100% fatality rate.

 

I think he did try to acknowledge it when he talked to Lois Lane after.

 

14 hours ago, Goffe said:

Was Superman/Clark the highlight, like people really loved him in it, in any of these shows/films? I doubt. Don't remember people singing high praises to Tom Welling's Clark Kent/Supes.

 

Have they? people rarely bring it up when discussing superhero films, let alone when discussing best superhero films.

 

So now a show lasts 10 seasons without people liking Tom Welling as Clark Kent? Come on Goffe, obviously people liked Tom Welling as a young Clark Kent.  And yes they did sing high praises about him when the show first came out. Eventually the criticism about the show was the tired and repetitive love stories and the villain of the week stories. But people did think Supes/Clark was a highlight in both shows.

 

Yeah, they have aged well. People don't need to bring them up when discussing best superhero films-just because you age well doesn't mean you are among the best.

[Goffe]

2 hours ago, Water Bottle said:

So now a show lasts 10 seasons without people liking Tom Welling as Clark Kent?

the show certainly had its fanbase, but I would hardly say that there's a consensus about Welling being a great Clark Kent, unlike, say, Michael Rosenbaum as Luthor.

 

Smallville only lasted 10 seasons because it aired on The WB/CW. You don't need to be a ratings experts to know that.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Goffe

[Water Bottle]

the show certainly had its fanbase, but I would hardly say that there's a consensus about Welling being a great Clark Kent, unlike, say, Michael Rosenbaum as Luthor.

 

Smallville only lasted 10 seasons because it aired on The WB/CW. You don't need to be a ratings experts to know that.

Not every WB/CW show lasts 10 seasons. Most don't. And Smallville was before the Netflix deal which is why the CW renews everything now. Finally, Smallville had record breaking ratings on the WB and got good ratings on the CW.

[Goffe]

Just now, Water Bottle said:

Not every WB/CW show lasts 10 seasons. Most don't. And Smallville was before the Netflix deal which is why the CW renews everything now. Finally, Smallville had record breaking ratings on the WB and got good ratings on the CW.

Smallville lasted 10 seasons because it was literally (if I'm not mistaken) the only show to receive acceptable ratings in The CW. If, back then, Smallville got the same ratings in any other network, its cancellation would be a sure thing.

[Water Bottle]

Smallville lasted 10 seasons because it was literally (if I'm not mistaken) the only show to receive acceptable ratings in The CW. If, back then, Smallville got the same ratings in any other network, its cancellation would be a sure thing.

If it aired on other networks, there is no reason to believe that Smallville would have gotten the same ratings. It likely would have done better thanks to the increased exposure. It wasn't the only show at the time to get "acceptable" ratings though.

But yes it did last 10 seasons because it was a success. Just because it was on WB/CW doesn't negate the success.

[somebody85]

Wow I've never seen the score board look like that in all my years on these forums. Large numbers everywhere except for in F. If each letter were a candidate in a political race it would be neck and neck.

Very divisive this movie is.

Edited April 2, 2016 by somebody85

[Goffe]

You know, I was thinking earlier, it would have been so much better if Batman saving Martha was actually the climax of the film.

 

It would gone back and forth between Superman severely wounded (from Bats vs Supes fight), Martha saying goodbye to her son as she was about to get toasted (Supes would be hearing his monther with his superhearing), and Batman running against time to save Clark's mother.

 

Of course, I think Martha would needed a couple more scenes with Clark for that to work.

 

No Doomsday bullshit.

 

I would raise my score from 5 to 8-9 instantly.

[Omario]

So finally saw the movie. Quite disappointed but i was ready for it with all the negative reviews and poor WOM. 

 

Definitely some good parts to like. I enjoyed the parents death scene...but i think that was due to the music. Wasn't very fond of Thomas Wayne about to attack the robber though. Never seen that happen in the comics before. I absolutely loved the Metropolis scene in the beginning from Bruce's' perspective. It was very well done. I had hope then that maybe i might enjoy this movie a lot. The Capitol building explosion was also an amazing scene. So well done. Gave me goosebumps. 

 

As for the characters i liked everyone except for Lex. I thought Henry needed more dialogue to work with. Lois was fine. Batman was good though I feel we can explore Batman properly in a solo movie. Wonder Woman was good too. Jessie though ruined Luthor. I mean they rushed into him having this big grudge against Superman with no real backstory on why he is doing the things he does. You have him acting eccentric and mentally ill. I just couldn't get it. You turn the world against Superman and then so easily let the world turn against you by creating Doomsday in your facility; so everyone can see who the real culprit is?! Very retarded thing to do.  Evil genius my ass, that is not Luthor. The only thing i liked about him is that he knew every ones secret identity and that he purposely moved Batman to fight Superman like a pawn from the beginning. 

 

The action was blurry and kind of pointless because all you see are explosions from Doomsdays body and electricity and dont know what the fuck is going on.  The Bat/Supes fight was ok. Nothing wow. All those years of build up and it was just a standard fight. I am glad Bats beat up Supes though. Made him bleed too. The best action scene was the warehouse fight to free Martha.  Missed chance to have big OMG moments but there was nothing in the whole movie. I actually thought Supes wouldn't die but he did thank God. Only thing true to the comics lol.

 

The editing and sound mixing was piss poor. I barely heard what Flash was saying along with quite alot of the dialogue in the movie. Its just not clear. WTF is going on?! The film was choppy and jumped from scene to scene with no real relevance. 

 

The worst thing in the movie was the nightmare scene. Absolutely retarded idea. It made no sense to anyone else in my party (except me being a comic book reader) and i dont blame them. It was shit and pointless. Just some random scene that pops up and ...Jesus i don't even know what to say lol. If anything it should have been the last scene not in the first hour. As for the first hour it was dragging so much. Nothing was really happening. 

 

I didn't enjoy the music. Wonder Womans' theme is pretty awful. Haunting but awful. its just some noise that sticks with you. Batmans' was not that good either. There is just too much noise here and you can see Junkies XL influence. The only theme i liked was the Zod/Supes fight theme from MoS that came on in the beginning. That theme is amazing. 

 

My word Snyder what the fuck did you do to this movie. From the trailers it looked as though you took the criticisms on board from Man of Steel and dealt with them but instead you made it worse. 

 

where the fuck is Doomdays Penis??????

 

Batman is quite violent in this movie, though he doesn't outright kill anyone with his bare hands. Except in that nightmare scene. Deffo not a movie for young kids.

 

Final point, even though Wonder Woman was good i feel she wont be able to carry her own move and she will be criticized for her acting in it. 

 

It seemed everyone involved tried to cram too much in including Darkseid. it fell apart except for a few redeeming aspects. 

 

6/10

 

C

 

Very upsetting to see the DCEU start off like this. Barely any interest in it anymore. I will just enjoy my Marvel movies from now on. Nolan would be kicking himself for selecting Snyder. 

 

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by Omario

[ChD]

Alright, alright, alright...

 

I loved Man of Steel. I don't even think I LIKED this movie. It's just... inconsistent tone wise, horribly edited and some dialogue was god damn awful. Surprisingly enough, Luthor was the best performance and the best written character, dialogue wise, at least.

 

B-

 

I also have 0 expectations from Justice League and I probably won't even bother watching it in theaters... or at all.

 

Edited April 2, 2016 by ChD

[Hangman]

On 3/27/2016 at 10:07 PM, Hangman said:

WTF critics?!!! BvS was awesome!

 

Well mostly awesome...

Batman Begins is still fresh in my mind, so the beginning of BvS seemed a little repetitive I guess.
First half of the movie felt like a Batman movie with Superman making a small appearance.
The big dream sequence seemed odd and unnecessary, but I think it was there to fuel Bruce's hate against Superman.
As far as the editing, it seemed to jump around a lot.
I thought the whole cast was great except for Eisenberg, but he wasn't horrible.  Also, Lex's motivation for wanting to kill Superman wasn't really clear.
I shouldn't have watched any of the trailers, they gave to much away. Doomsday, the Batman Martha rescue scene, Wonder-Woman, and well basically everything. But that's my fault for watching the trailers.
I also think Wonder Woman wasn't needed in BvS.  I think the movie would have flowed better with all the WW & JL scenes removed.

 

Even with all that, I hope Zack directs Justice League because I really enjoyed BvS. 

TDK is probably my favorite comic book movie, but Batman (and maybe Bruce Wayne) is better in BvS.
The Bruce/Clark & Batman/Superman scenes were excellent.
Lois and Perry improved from MoS.

Special effects were also greatly improved from MoS. Especially the Superman flying scenes.

 

9/10

 

After some time and reflection, the BvS high is gone and lowering my score to a 7.5/10.

 

Also, if Zack really killed off Clark Kent and he's never to be seen again, I don't want Zack to involved with JL or maybe is just there to direct the action scenes.

[BadAtGender]

Hmm...

[BadAtGender]

Now that I've had a night to think about it, I'm not actually sure if I liked the movie or not. And I don't think it's a case of really disliking it and being in denial. I really, honestly don't know. To be fair, though, after I saw Man of Steel the first time, I was unsure about the movie.

 

Part of this, I think, is the presentation seemed to be very poor. The theater house lights never dimmed entirely. The sound mix seemed off. I think they had the aperture on the projector on incorrectly, which slightly cut off the top and bottom of the screen. (Noticeable in the scenes of news shows, where the bottom of the text was cut off.) And maybe they had the 3D grate down or something, because it seemed dim, especially compared to trailers I'd seen previously.

 

So, fighting against a sub-par movie experience. And I don't want to hold that against the film itself.

 

Still, this was an acknowledged mess. I came away mostly thinking that they did have a pretty strong idea of what they wanted their characters to present as... but had no real clue how to get those ideas across the best. Many of the scenes felt like they were sketched out without a clear beginning and end, and we're left with a feeling of a larger whole where we're only seeing a few random middle bits. It's not that the character motivations are lacking, just that the elements shown aren't what drive those points across.

 

In a way, this is confusing, because when you strip it down, the plot of BvS is pretty great: Lex Luthor has a problem with Superman, so he sets up a Xanatos Gambit to put him in conflict with Batman. Eventually, they realize their error and team up.

 

Unfortunately, in order to get this across, you need a strong bifurcated storyline: Superman's heroics need to progress in contrast with Batman's investigations. The two should advance in a way that feels like they're converging on the same point. Then you get the twist: instead of working separately against a common goal, they're actually at odds against each other. This is how you get the fight that feels both surprising and organic. Also, this should come to head at the end of Act 2. Act 3 is the team-up.

 

The problem arises rather early. The entire Africa plotline feels needlessly busy and extraneous, especially since MoS already presented a very good reason for people to question Superman already. Then as the movie progresses, it seems to be too early when we're seeing Lex's gambit in action. Thus it isn't a surprise about what happens. Thus we get a confusing selection of character actions that are clearly leading somewhere, but the film itself doesn't seem clear on what that goal actually is.

 

So here's what I think happened. I think David Goyer wrote a Man of Steel sequel. It was a Superman plot through and through. You can look at the throughline of Supes and Lex and see that it's pretty clear that exists. In this context, Lex's plan is entirely put public doubt in Superman, make him the blame of things going wrong (that are Lex's doing), and then when that doesn't work, bring out his ace in the hole, Doomsday, to kill Superman.

 

Then WB got nervous and decided to add Batman into the mix. And all hell broke loose. Because by adding Batman, you need to account for his motivations. And while there is a disagreement plot to be had, it wasn't in the original script. So Goyer (and later Terrio) were doing the best they could with the plot at hand, but it was a confusing, tacked-on selection of motivations and character impetus that ultimately sets the original plot on a wobbly course.

 

In fact, if you look at the film, the interactions between the two characters is pretty sketchy prior to the final fight. They meet at Lex's party (and in Batman's dream), but that's about it. It really feels like two different movies that more or less are happening at the same time. Or, perhaps more appropriately, this is a Superman movie that seems to star Batman for reasons that are not entirely clear from the film itself.

 

It's entirely possible that the director's cut, with ample time to explore the motivations and plots, will clear up the confusion. It's not that they necessarily needed that extra time, but if they didn't have a clear plan from the get-go, it could help work through all the excess they were dealing with. We'll have to wait and see. Unfortunately, even if the DC is a vast improvement, it's not going to help. Most of the audience will see it in the theaters, and their opinions will be pretty firm. I doubt many are going to give it a second chance, especially if it's longer.

 

With all that, what did I like?

 

Well, I do like the cast. They're all pretty great, especially given the weirdly limited material they have to work with. Affleck makes a great Batman. Irons a great Alfred (in fact, he had most of the best lines in the film). Eisenberg is weirdly compelling at Lex. Adams as Lois continues to give me heart eyes. And Cavill continues to sell what is a difficult role.

 

And, of course, Gal Gadot is amazing as Wonder Woman. Messy as the film is, it isn't confused at all when she's on screen. When she shows up for the final fight, everything just sort of clarifies. Even the entire tone of the music changes, as if to say, "This is what we are here for." And it is. The criticism of the DC films is that they're afraid of letting their heroes enjoy themselves. That's entirely absent with Wonder Woman. She fights and has fun at it. She alone is enough reason to be excited about what the DC films will bring in the future.

 

I doubt I'll see BvS again theatrically. That's mostly for financial reasons, though. I really would like to give it a second shot in a presentation that isn't marred by the theater itself. I wonder if, like Man of Steel, it's something that I warm up to over time and begin to love. I'd also like to see the director's cut to see if that smooths out some of the story issues. Maybe if there's another $10 blu-ray at Best Buy.

 

Still, I honestly don't know if I like it or not.

 

?/5

[Plain Old Tele]

5 hours ago, DamienRoc said:

?/5

 

 

Nice writeup. Very thoughtful.

[BadAtGender]

Just now, Telemachos said:

 

 

Nice writeup. Very thoughtful.

 

Well, after two weeks of preamble response gearing me up, I was pretty much sitting in the theater for the entire time asking myself "Am I enjoying this? How about this? What about this part? Is this enjoyable?" etc.

 

And then answering "Maybe? But I can't tell because I think they fucked up the projector."

[Plain Old Tele]

1 minute ago, DamienRoc said:

 

Well, after two weeks of preamble response gearing me up, I was pretty much sitting in the theater for the entire time asking myself "Am I enjoying this? How about this? What about this part? Is this enjoyable?" etc.

 

And then answering "Maybe? But I can't tell because I think they fucked up the projector."

 

Heck, that's not entirely dissimilar from my reactions throughout the movie, except that I had a pristine 2D IMAX presentation (which undoubtedly helped), and my brief answer to myself, halfway through, was "Huh, I'm actually kinda enjoying this." I completely agree with your general critique... but my basic takeaway was that I had a fun time.

[DeeCee]

I'm surprised at the lack of comment about the wasting if Jimmy Olsen.

 

“We just did it as this little aside because we had been tracking where we thought the movies were gonna go, and we don’t have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?”

Edited April 7, 2016 by DeeCee

[Spidey Freak]

8 hours ago, DeeCee said:

I'm surprised at the lack of comment about the wasting if Jimmy Olsen.

 

“We just did it as this little aside because we had been tracking where we thought the movies were gonna go, and we don’t have room for Jimmy Olsen in our big pantheon of characters, but we can have fun with him, right?”

 

I still suspect that "Jenny" was indeed supposed to be the gender reversed version of Jimmy in MoS. But WB chickened out after the shitstorm raised by the same old fanbois. Wouldn't be surprised if this is Zack's way of subtly showing that group the middle finger.

[Jayhawk the Hutt]

I haven't read through the entire thread, but I assume everything has been written about, so I'll keep it short. Not terrible, but not particularly good. Just meh. The first 2/3rds are pretty decent (despite some weird Snyderisms). Last act was pretty bad though. I can appreciate that Snyder and DC took some risks, it definitely didn't play out like your average Marvel movie (as of yet). Affleck was quite good, Cavill was solid. Gadot didn't have a lot to do, but I liked what I saw. Eisenberg was a mixed bag, though I'm happy he went full ham. The movie was in dire need of some laughs. The action was mostly good, but nothing was outstanding on that front. The BvS Title Fight was good, but not a ton of buildup. The film jumped around like crazy, built almost no momentum. I liked a lot of individual scenes, but they never added up, as they had no flow. Happy I saw it in IMAX, the sequences in that format were well done. Oh, and the cameos for the JL were incredibly stupid. Has to be the dumbest thing in the movie, and that's saying a lot.

 

C-

4.5/10

Edited April 10, 2016 by Jayhawk

[angeldelmito]

The only reason I'm giving this a D and not an F is because i'm being lenient. God, I had such high hopes for this. I'm not one to label myself as a "Marvel" or "DC" fan, so I went into this on a blank slate (other than knowing that in someway Superman will die, lmao should've left the spoiler thread a long time ago). Sigh. For what it's worth, I really liked Man of Steel. Like really liked it. What happened with this? Why was this so extra and messy? Realistically, I'd give this a 40/100. But because I'm gay as fuck and those shirtless scenes got to me, I'm increasing it to 50/100. Still a bad score, but whatever.

 

Pros:

-We got a look at the Justice league. Loved seeing Cyborg, Flash, and Aquaman (AHHHHHH!!!)

 

-Beautifully executed action scene at the end with Doomsday. (I fucking love the way Wonder Woman beat his ass.)

 

-Wonder Woman was the best part of the movie, too bad she couldn't save it.

 

-Ben Affleck's transformation into a daddy. 

 

-Ben Affleck's great acting.

 

-BATMAN AND SUPERMAN SHIRTLESS. 

 

-The majority of the third act was entertaining.

 

-Gaaaaah. Wonder Woman. I'm definitely looking forward to her solo film, and I am so glad that Snyder is not directing it.

 

-My favorite scene was when the girl was trapped in the building in Mexico and Superman saved her, and everybody started to bless him or something, and then there was a montage of him saving people. That was really refreshing. 

 

-CGI was good or whatever but you'd expect that from a superhero film with a big ass budget.
 

Cons:

-Sloppily edited, like.... yikes

-The movie started off way too sad. Like damn. And then that scene of the girl and her dead mom in the building.... yikes.

-Superman dies. Personal con from me, I like Superman a lot.

-what the actual fuck were those dream sequences. like what the actual fcuk -- what were all those weird ass monsters doing in Bruce Wayne's dreams???

-and oh my GOD don't get me started on that second dream sequence with the desert and the flying wasp robots and superman soldiers or some shit during an apocalypse, and then he wakes up to ANOTHER weird ass dream where there's this random ass dude?? In a time portal or something?? Like???? Snyder????? Wyd?????????¿?

-the score is.... out there. I mean there are a few (and I mean few) scenes where the score is well done and goes well with the scenes (Lex Luthor and WW's theme). But yikes.

- Awkward ass scene with Amy Adams in the bath fully nude and Cavill jumping in there with all his clothes on... like that's a bad idea in real life and visually, what the fuck. And then to have the nerve to show the glasses coming off with a splash of water. Girl, this disrespect. lmao

-i'm religious so all that shit lex luthor was saying about God was uncomfortable... but that's just me

-Unnecessary painting at the end of the movie was supposed to represent what??  

-Damn, this movie was grim and unnecessarily dark. Like I'd expect this from films like Mockingjay Part 2, but not this... There was like only one happy scene in the movie, and that was barely happy as it is. 

-Lmao, WW and Superman over here doing the real damage to doomsday and Batman jus standing over there doing nothing. Instead of having Lois there, you should've made Batman get the spear so it felt like he did more than shoot a Krypton gas bomb thing. 

-They got the nerve to let Snyder direct Justice League... Sigh.

 

50/100 (D-)

Edited April 10, 2016 by angeldelmito

[The Renaissance Fan]

Sure to be controversial. Here's our review