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Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

Batman v Superman: Dawn Of Justice (2016)  

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  1. 1. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

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I'm giving his a C




The plot was a mess. The action was good. The usual Zach Snyder movie.


Ben Affleck was great so was Gal Gadot. Henry Cavil will be easily forgotten till the end.

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The only thing I didn't like was the stupid Flash cameo warning Bruce Wayne. "Is it time yet??? Did I come too soon??" C'mon man. It was wearing a very weird armor and at first I thought it was Cyborg lol. I am also pretty sure the dream sequences were made by other hero/villain and not some random event. 


Otherwise it was legit awesome. The story is actually very simple and easy to follow. Ben Affleck was great. Gal Gadot has the best entrance ever for a super-hero. Troll Luthor breathes life into this movie. He is very, very good. The battle between the leads is quite cool. The final moments of Superman are the stuff of legends. I cried. Fantastic. Perfect moment. 


Also liked the Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman cameos from the Luthor files. Aquaman looks like fucking Roman Reigns lmao. 


The crowd seemed into it a lot. Cheers and applauses when Batman gave Superman and the first punch and when Wonder Woman showed up. Laughs at the right moments as well (Troll Luthor gets a few, and there is a legit hilarious moment involving Batman and Martha Kent that got the biggest laughs from the audience). And when I cried, there were a few people crying as well. Brutal dead silence in that scene. It gave me chills.


This movie was what my dreams were all about. I loved it and can't wait to see it again.


Critics can suck my dick for all I care. 





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- I really enjoyed it. Some scenes straight up made me giddy, and I had a grin on my face for a lot of it. I've disagreed with critics plenty of times before, and this is another one to add to the list.


- The cast is great all around. Cavill puts in an improved performance from MoS, Affleck is one of the best live action Batmans ever, Gadot as Diana is a stand-out and I really wish she was in it more, and Eiseinberg's Lex Luthor is a lot of fun. Luthor's portrayal was interesting, and I think a lot of people won't be expecting it, but for me it got better and better as the movie went on. I really liked his last few scenes. I could see people not liking it because he hams it up sometimes, but I found him thoroughly entertaining.


- There's actually less action than I thought. Of course the final hour ramps it up big time with Batman vs Superman, followed by the trinity vs Doomsday (Wonder Woman is brilliant in that fight by the way), but before that the action is kinda sparse; or at least sparse for what I was expecting. Still, there's a mint chase sequence of the Batmobile tearing through Gotham chasing a truck with kryptonite.


- That scene in the beginning of the final trailer, where Batman beats the shit out of the dudes in the warehouse? Yeah it's a lot longer in the film, and it is glorious to behold.


- I've read people complain about the CGI, but honestly to me the CGI was good. It was about the same as any other big comic book movie CGI like Age Of Ultron or Days Of Future Past etc.


- Not a fan of the Doomsday design. He gets spikier, but still not nearly as many as the comic book spikes.


- Some of my favourite moments were the ones where they made the difference in philosophies clear. There are other reasons that they fight, but the best dramatic moments came from how they perceived each other, and how they each define what a hero should do.


- I really don't give a shit that Batman mows people down. He's killed people in pretty much all the previous movies, and I'm not one of those "thats not what MY Batman would do!" type of people. I can dig an angry jaded paranoid violent Batman. Although by the end he realized that he has to change, so this will be as brutal as we'll see him.


- Superman's arc was great in this movie. I'd heard rumours that Wonder Woman killed Doomsday, but I'm glad that it was Clark sacrificing himself to kill Doomsday. And the final shot of his coffin was great. Instead of just going for the sound of a heartbeat to let us know he was alive, it was a nice visual of the dirt starting to hover slightly. Nice touch.


- I didn't like the Knightmare sequence, it was really random. People criticized the editing, and the knightmare sequence is where they absolutely have a fair point. It kinda comes out of nowhere and is never explained properly, and cuts to and from it are pretty jarring. Plus it's really just set-up for the future. Adds nothing to this movie.


- In saying that, I like The Flash's cameo, loved Aquaman's one, and was fine with Cyborg's.


- Dan Amboyer wasn't in the film. Or, if he was, I did not notice him. He is a master troll that guy, love it.


I give it a 4/5, and voted B.

Edited by Mikasa Ackerman
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This was a crazy fun ride. It's understandable why critics didn't like it, and why many people won't like it. This film is for fans of the source material. Snyder is crazy to do what he did in this movie, and WB is crazy for allowing him to do it. Very bold and risky move. They could easily do a crowd-pleasing movie and they chose not to. But as a fan, I'm so glad they did it. And in the long term, it will pay off. As the whole DC Universe unfolds, people will look back at this movie and praise it like it deserves. Snyder created another masterpiece.

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It's really really good for about two-thirds, then Superman fights Batman and everything gets exponentially worse.    


It commits the cardinal sin of embracing its superhero roots, they embrace the shallow nature of a clearly inferior artistic form. What made the DC films so potentially interesting to me is now gone. Now DC is just like Marvel.  


If that's the path DCU is gonna take, they can count me out. 
Batman is hell (hate detective Batman and his logic to fight Superman doesn't hold itself together). Superman is surprinsgly good. Luthor is great. WW is ok.


That hearing scene is an all timer.


Score is very good, there is variety, something that MOS score sorely laked. 


Batman theme, which was composed by Junkie XL, was pretty bad, but not as bad as I thought it would be given who composed it


Note 1: I really don't care for the flack I will going to receive for some  things I said in this post.

Note 2: Better than Deadpoop, though.

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It started with a better ending to Man of Steel then the actual ending of Man of Steel. 


Gal Gadot as Wonder Women could have gone very wrong but she was very good and definitely the best character.  I more excited for the standalone film now. 


The movie went completely dead with the bizarre 30 minute (it seemed like it would never end) dream/future sequence. 


Luther was bad.  


I didn't like the score. It seemed like they turned up the "epic sound" dial to 11 for every scene. 


The cameos were neither here nor there. 


We didn't need to see a child Bruce Wayne again surrounded by bats. All the young Bruce Wayne sequences should been lost a script stage. 


Ben Affleck was fine as Batman/Bruce Wayne although his plan to take down Superman was pretty dumb. 


Are Metropolis and Gotham supposed to be out suburbs of each other?


Thats just a few thoughts. The movie was basically a mess. Definitely a one and done in the theatre. 

Edited by DeeCee
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Ben Affleck is the best on screen Batman we've ever seen. He was great as Wayne and as the Caped Crusader. The film starts off incredibly well - portraying the battle of Metropolis from Bruce's PoV, and doing so rather effectively. There's a real sense of dread and panic, as well as powerlessness to Wayne which Affleck and Snyder get across to the audience from the offset, and was perhaps the best way to open a film like this.

But everything else... yeesh. The first hour of the film felt like a series of scenes with no relation to one another, just a bunch of vignettes that didn't further the story along in any way. They cut from character to character between scenes, and it ends up a convoluted mess. There were scenes in the film that felt like they were there just to be "dark" and "serious", but it doesn't exceed anything beyond a superficial level and ends up feeling somewhat juvenile. Eisenberg was really bad as Luthor; a character who has no clear motivations -  and the actual reason for the big fight is coincidental to say the least. There are endless monologues of sophomoric philosophy that bring the film to a complete halt, going on and on about how clever the film thinks it is.

Gadot was fine as Wonder Woman, but Cavill was a pretty stiff Superman; which made the big ending scene feel a lot weaker than it should have felt. The cameos felt like nothing more than fanboy pandering.

And then there's Doomsday... ugh.

But I can't stress enough how good Affleck is in this role. He brings in his A game for this, and is pretty much the only thing grounding it to any pre tense of reality or gravitas. Every scene he's in he's at least good in, playing Wayne almost as though he were a seasoned and world weary Bond figure, and the Dark Knight a threatening judge, jury and executioner. He takes lines like "Do you bleed? You will" beyond the juvenile delinquency they have on the page, and his interplay with Irons' Alfred was just great to watch. If nothing else, at least the solo Batman film has potential to be great.  

Edited by TMP
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Bad story, bad editing, bad performance.

First 100 minutes is torturing, It's just all over the place.

Superman vs Doomsday is basically Superman vs Zodd 2.0, nothing refreshing..

Doomsday looks like a mix of Abomination and Electro, only it's more ugly.

Only stand-out point is WW, which is not enough for this movie.


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I don't know if it's because I had such low low exceptions but... I liked it.. I kind of liked it alot... but it was far from perfect that's for sure


Ben Affleck is fantastic as batman like he is the best batman I've ever seen, and I really liked the introduction scene, the problem is kind of all of Snyder's scenes that aren't action scenes feel like introduction scenes, I did feel like the dialogue was improved a lot this time around.. there just wasn't enough dialogue, I know Zach is a visual story teller, but people do not say much unless it is to explain a plot point, and makes for very little character development, the movie is dark but it's also not always very interesting or informative, this movie could have really used some smaller character moments, and a touch of light-heartedness wouldn't have hurt.


And Henry Cavill is probably one of the worst things about this movie, his character is given very little to do, and Cavill falls flat quite a bit, I really wanted a more happy and upbeat superman, he didn't have to be reeves, but he needed to be something.. that being said, they did manage to redeem him quite a bit in the end because that sacrifice scene was freaking EPIC.. maybe when Sups comes back he will have bit more personality. 


I know that editing wasn't great, but I still felt like it was an improvement from MoS, it felt like it had a beginning, a middle and an end, but yeah the fight kind of just turned out to be a big misunderstanding. 


I actually kind of liked Lex, his over the top campy mad scientist portrayal, made it feel more comic booky, and added just a little bit of much needed fun to the movie, which probably surprised me most of all becuase I was not happy with his casting. 


Wonder Woman was awesome! I loved every scene she was in and her fighting style was so cool, but still I don't necessarily think Gal Gadot is a great actress, but he did fine.

really excited for WW standalone now.


the fighting overall was way better, the fight between Batman and Superman was perfect, it was brutal and quick, I was really thankful it didn't going on for 30+ minutes.


there were some scenes in the beginning middle that dragged and I didn't like so much, Lois Lane is still awful, she's terribly writing and Amy Adams is really miscast. and this is coming from someone who loves Amy Adams! Doomsday was pretty stupid. but it was fun to watch Batman, Wonder Woman and Superman tag-team him.. the end was by far the best part and really saved the movie for me, I gonna eat a little humble pie and say overall dispite some major flaws, I really enjoyed it, Still don't really want Zack to do JL, but I won't die if he does.. I'll give it a  B+

Edited by Kalo
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B+ (ish)



There's a lot to like, but a lot of it is burdened down by a lot going on which leads to a lot being underdeveloped or left as sequel bait. But the underlying core theme shines through, even if Supes never really gets a chance to articulate his side.


But the acting was strong, especially Trolluthor and Batfleck. Irons was a nice presence as well.


The Knightmare sequence didn't really work, the Future Flash warning neither.


Music was mostly eh. Really liked the Batman and Luthor cues, disliked heavily the weird rock metal garbage that was Wonder Woman's theme. Sounded like a pepped up version of the garbage disposal theme from Winter Solder.




And holy shit does Batman murder the fuck outta people. His body count in this film beats all other Batman films combined easily.

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Tale of two movies for me.   Spoilers follow.


First half.   Pretty damn good.   Almost no action but that doesn't bother me.   Everything flowed nicely.   That opening scene with young Bruce Wayne is freaking beautiful.   Zach Snyder should be a cinematographer instead of a director....amazing visuals in this movie and so many shots were framed in a creative way.    Great to look at.


Felt like the movie changed around the time that Batman had that dream sequence.   Don't really know who that was who was talking to him and telling him about Lois Lane.   He didn't do much with the information.   Things started going wrong at that point.   I sensed the same problem with other big budget movies.   At some point there has to be a big action/CGI/money sequence, right?   So they made that happen even though there was no logical reason for it.


Affleck is my favorite Bruce Wayne and Batman.   Sorry Bale and Keaton, Affleck is bigger, more imposing, and has the right face to make the mask look right.   Looks matter.   And Ben has an awesome "mad face" that just projects gravitas.   His acting was pretty good until the very end.  This batsuit is also my favorite.   That's how he should look imo.   Oh...and that fight with the thugs at the end is by far the best fight scene ever filmed for Batman imo.   That's been a huge weakness in past Batman movies.   And this did kinda feel like a Batman movie.


Some people don't like Cavill and I don't understand why.   He's got the perfect look and screen presence.   The guy can act too when given a chance.  In this movie I don't think he is given anything to do at all.    That was the danger of bringing in Batman and making it his movie.   I suppose I'm supposed to care that he dies and mourn with the extras holding candles?    All I felt was an emptiness.   His character wasn't developed enough for me to care that much.   I know I'm supposed to, but that's all.


Gadot was pretty good as Diana Prince until the end when she had to talk.   That scene in the cemetery at the end?  ...Yikes...neither her or Affleck did very well there.   Looked great as Diana but the costume for WW doesn't make any sense to me.   I notice Batman and Superman don't go into battle dressed like that.   While Affleck and Cavill look the part, Godot does not.   Which one of these actresses DOESN'T look like a warrior?




Jesse Eisenberg does his best imitation of Heath Ledger as the Joker and it just doesn't work.   Lots of "I'm crazy" moments straight out of Ledger's playbook in TDK.    A small indication of the fan service was him having his head shaved at the end.   I guess they shave everyone's head when they go to jail in Metropolis? 


Really like, Jeremy Irons, Laurence Fishburne, and Amy Adams in their roles.


The Batman vs Superman fight was irritating because it made no sense.   They just threw it in because it had to be there.   Should have been called "Iron Man vs Super-idiot".    Superman first tells Lois he might have to kill Batman...but then was only there to talk when he found Bats.   But instead of talking....Supes decides to start punching Batman and knocking him all over the place.   (Kinda like earlier in the movie when Superman decides to just wreck Batman's car and threaten him instead of having a conversation)   Like Supes said, if he wanted Batman dead it would have happened immediately.....so what's the point of beating Batman up there Supes?   Superman was also too dumb to know that the gun Bats had was weakening him the SECOND time Bats used it.   W.I.S. at its finest.    Batman is supposed to be smarter than everyone else but of course he falls for the smear campaign against Supes just like any average truck driver would.   More W.I.S.


CGI Abomination....er.....Doomsday made a lot of noise and punched stuff.    Gotta put that money on the screen!   A total non-character though.  


If you loved the ending of Return of the King where there were endless "endings" you'll love the end of BvS.   Lots of endings.  They should have put up a "cry now" banner on some of them.   Maybe some pepper spray over the audience would help.


5/10    Started off really good and veered off course badly.   A bit like Fan4stic.   I didn't hate it and I don't think it's a 3/10 like the RT score would indicate at least.

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One thing that kind of worries me is that, if they Kill Captain America in the end of Civil War, are people going to complain and say they copied BvS.. the difference would be for me that people actually care about Evan's Captain America and love him, so I think it could work really well, but the GA may not see it though way after this. 

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Extended thoughts on two rounds of the theatrical cut of the film - firstly the premiere on Tuesday and secondly the midnight show tonight. Both in same theatre, in 70mm IMAX film.



This is much much more of a popcorny movie, almost like Marvel even, than I expected. Honestly, if this wasn’t Snyder and was Marvel/Disney people would probably give this a pass.

Anyway thoughts - Affleck was really great,  Eisenberg was REALLY great, Gadot was real nice.

Basically - this isn’t trying to be all TDK or Watchmen, this is like TFA, it’s breezy, more fun than I expected, just through a “darker” lens, Terrio did great by flirting with more serious and tougher themes in the dialogue but the film didn’t get bogged down by them. It did move a touch too fast in the first third though, I hope and think the Ultimate Cut will fix that.
Only problems I have are the way some of the universe set up is handled - sure it’s actually all woven in far more nicely than say AoU but we didn’t need the cameos IMO.
Cinematography, especially the IMAX stuff, is absolutely gorgeous - unlike Nolan and Bay, Snyder uses IMAX for actual select sequences for prolonged periods instead of just flipping back and forth. And I liked the score too but MoS was superior.


Anyway, think that’s all from me until round 2 Thurs night. I guess they could’ve gone far more darker and serious than they did but indulging in the pulp of it and balancing it out was a good move. 





I wonder if there was a much…I don’t wanna say the word ‘darker’ but essentially yes - less adventure-y, more Watchmen or even Nolan-esque in tone version of this film. There are moments, especially in that first hour, they hint that it was somewhat in the works (the “must there be a Superman” montage, obviously the MoS flashback and the Capitol sequence come to mind) but ultimately, with the budget and universe set up stakes involved, I think they just had to make it far more of a 'crowd pleaser’ instead. Not that they did a bad job of doing that, IMO they did that well and hit the balance right, it’s just not what I expected personally. Tonally this is the complete opposite of what I expected a MoS sequel to be. And it’s really bloody hard to put it in words…..but basically: the only way this could be even further than MoS than it already is is have lighter, brighter visuals like Marvel. And even more quips and gags. Which is why I really don’t understand the “it’s too grim/dark/humourless” criticism from critics. 

Onto that first hour - I personally loved the slightly unconventional editing approach to it - I think with the pace moving as fast as it was I see why people had issues with it, I think the Ultimate Cut’s extended runtime will benefit this a lot. Give these early sequences more room and time to breathe. Especially the dream sequences.

Now onto some more slightly spoilery stuff: The big fight - I think the more intimate and closed way they approached it is so the third act really doesn’t feel.underwhelming and tacked on after it. The two heroes going at it Neo v Smith/Supes v Zod 2.0 style would’ve been better IMO, yes, but it would make the Doomsday stuff pale in comparison for a lot of people. I prob wouldn’t mind it tbh.

The only part of the film that felt forced to me was the JL cameos and set up - I mean I guess that’s a case of the studio forcing them to have that obligatory universe set up, and it was done in an organic way story wise, but do we need that small subplot about Luthor having a dossier on WW including a photo setting up the WW movie being the reason why Diana is in Metropolis - or that extended sequence of Diana watching footage of Flash and Aquaman in action and Cyborg origin? Just having the logos on the folders is more than enough. In fact I would’ve jettisoned it altogether. The end though with Bruce’s motivation to set up the JL being to do right by Supes was really really nice though.


Quite frankly, like SPECTRE, this is a mix of two opposing tones - it’s almost as breezy and wink wink as a Marvel film would be (with not nearly as much obvious gags and humour, but still subtle pieces), but with a (stunning but) dark visual palette, characterisation etc…….this film manages to accomplish that mix MUCH better than SPECTRE if I’m gonna be honest, at the very least more satisfyingly and enjoyably.

Again - more to come after rewatch.



Let’s break this down. First off - rating’s now 7/10 mixed-positive and will probably stay here. This is likely my last viewing for me until the Ultimate Cut when this lands on home media. Secondly - atmosphere tonight at the sold-out BFI IMAX midnight show was electric at the start and for around 2/3 of the film (far better than premiere crowd but that was some press, bunch of YouTubers, and some celeb folk) but you could feel the deflation at a certain stretch in the film. More on that later.


First off - overall this film does somewhat suffer from being cut down to almost its bare minimum in this version. Snyder seemed to admit as much in recent interviews about the 3-hour UC. I’d guess that’d be a reason for a lot of quick glimpse and as we get more of the characters, we smash to black then move on to another scene….then another…then another.


Act 1/2A - the first hour or so of the film is far and away the best part of this. Excellent introductions and build ups with fantastically standout sequences - personal favourites being the “Must There Be A Superman” montage and the Capitol hearing. While almost paradoxically being the part that suffers the most from the ‘bare minimum’ issue. I can imagine the Ultimate Cut turning this early part of the film into absolute perfection.


Then as tensions rise and we are about to get to the titular….everything screeches to a halt at the worst possible time with “Next Time on the DCEU” and the sudden focus on the scout ship/Doomsday formation surges. Hell, even the Bruce opening the file to see the WW photo works surprisingly well, add onto that a short snippet of Diana getting his email on her phone and don’t have her look through the JL files and boom - job done. At this point, including the Knightmare/Flash, you’ve teased just enough on the solo films and JL. That really hobbles the film going in the titular fight, which is apart from that pretty great, then we get the whole 'bare minimum’ trimming again with the denouement of the fight, not letting that emotional connection solidify - snap, we’re off to rescue Supes’ Martha, then after, that whole stretch of the film right up to the full IMAX epilogue, while not feeling far as relentlessly rushed and cut to bare minimum, is not only quite exhausting to watch, no matter how great it is to see the Trinity in action, but….basically to borrow a Twitter friend’s analogy, is throwing that delicious plate of pasta against the wall. Thankfully the epilogue really picks it up again, despite feeling a bit too long (although that may be due to the previous stretch of film preceding it.


So here’s the thing with the Ultimate Cut - while it will get that first hour to perfection, I really don’t think it’ll fix issues that end up appearing later on. Which is a real shame as it seems so easy to do, right? I guess I can live with that Trinity (plus goddamn Lois) fight….


Anyway 70mm IMAX - again absolutely gorgeous full screen sequences and cinematography in general. That thing I really can’t fault. And that opening titles/MoS flashback prologue two punch is quite frankly perfection.


So….until the Ultimate Cut, BvS. You’ve been visually stunning, problematic, flawed, enjoyable, epic and exhausting so far.


P.S. went with a few close friends this time - all came away really liking it despite a couple being immediately aware of some of the flaws and just problematic moments in later parts of the film. Was first time IMAX experience for a couple of them too, they were blown away by it all.


P.P.S. by the bouncy ball of Lex Luthor - this film does not, I repeat DOES NOT deserve that RT rating. I would’ve been perfectly okay with same RT score as MoS, come the hell on.


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Good first act, draggy second act, great third act. Overall, the movie tries to do way too much and because of that it suffers. It would have been better to drop some of the sub-plots and tighten up the editing to get to the point quicker. There were multiple scenes that had flashbacks to scenes we've already seen which also added to a very tiresome runtime. If the movie was better, I'd be willing to watch it again this weekend but I'm so tired out by how long everything took that I'm in no rush to see this again. This makes me question the rewatch value (which Man of Steel at least has).


B/B- (kinda on the edge on whether to add the "-" because soooo much of it was soooo dull but there was soooo many parts that were just soooo awesome.)

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Had a really good time ... so happy after fearing the worst from the reviews.  Loved Wonder Woman, Batman and despite not being a traditional  'Lex Luthor' I sort of enjoyed Jesse Eisenberg and the audience laughed at several of his awkward moments.  The first 15 minutes were absolutely great.  I loved the credits & flashback to Man of Steel.  The movie does hit a bit of a rut in the middle of the film waiting for all the chess pieces to fall into place, but then all hell breaks loose when Martha is kidnapped by Lex's men.  Doomsday was serviceable, but he could have been any monster.  The only reason he's 'Doomsday' is so that Superman can 'die'. The other issue is that editing was sort of all over the place.  I know why they cut from the cemetery to Batman & Lex ... and back to the cemetery, but it was an awkward transition.


I still think Zack Snyder has created a world and a Superman that is too dark for what I'd prefer, but if he's going to stay on for Justice League, I hope the 'reborn' Superman will have that weight of the world off his shoulders and be allowed to shine in the sky and not simply sulk in the night.



Edited by AdamKendall
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1 hour ago, Kalo said:

One thing that kind of worries me is that, if they Kill Captain America in the end of Civil War, are people going to complain and say they copied BvS.. the difference would be for me that people actually care about Evan's Captain America and love him, so I think it could work really well, but the GA may not see it though way after this. 


Great point.


Let's see, "Beloved and admired hero is now being scrutinized by the government as public opinion turns against him and a millionaire fellow hero decides to take him down".    Sound familiar?   If Cap dies at the end, it's going to seem REALLY same-story-different-day.    In box office terms, I think that's much worse than bad reviews.

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38 minutes ago, AdamKendall said:

I still think Zack Snyder has created a world and a Superman that is too dark for what I'd prefer, but if he's going to stay on for Justice League, I hope the 'reborn' Superman will have that weight of the world off his shoulders and be allowed to shine in the sky and not simply sulk in the night.



my thoughts exactly.

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17 minutes ago, Harpospoke said:


Great point.


Let's see, "Beloved and admired hero is now being scrutinized by the government as public opinion turns against him and a millionaire fellow hero decides to take him down".    Sound familiar?   If Cap dies at the end, it's going to seem REALLY same-story-different-day.    In box office terms, I think that's much worse than bad reviews.


I can just see the critic reviews.. ""BvS... Only done right.. and fun!" but the GA is like.. not this again!

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