The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Ryan Reynolds]

1 hour ago, Marathon said:

If it loses over two thirds of CM1's OW, that's absolutely crazy. Usually that only happens to sequels coming off of novelty/fad predecessors. Things have really changed for live action superhero stuff on the big screen in quite dramatically short frame of time.

is it that different from Suicide Squad which over performed but had mixed wom and had decent legs , and its spinoff underperformed, and that had r rating as an excuse though

Edited November 5, 2023 by Ryan Reynolds

[Mojoguy]

1 minute ago, Ryan Reynolds said:

is it that different from Suicide Squad which over performed but had mixed wom and had decent legs , and its spinoff underperformed, and that had r rating as an excuse though

The Sucide Squard had covid along with Day and Date release as excuses.

 

Marvels does not.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Just now, Mojoguy said:

The Sucide Squard had covid along with Day and Date release as excuses.

 

Marvels does not.

talking about BoP

[Mojoguy]

Just now, Ryan Reynolds said:

talking about BoP

BoP was a weird spin off 

 

TSS from Gunn was the sequel.

[DInky]

3 minutes ago, Mojoguy said:

The Sucide Squard had covid along with Day and Date release as excuses.

 

Marvels does not.

 

An R-rating as well.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Just now, Mojoguy said:

BoP was a weird spin off 

 

TSS from Gunn was the sequel.

no matter what Gunn fans say TSS had no excuse for bombing as bad as it did when HBOMax titles Godzilla and Dune did well enough

[HummingLemon496]

50 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

I don’t think AM can go under Flash with Xmas. If it does though… whew

Shazam 2 somehow managed to have a 1.91x multiplier despite a microscopic opening weekend and no hype

 

If it's bad enough I think it's possible

[DInky]

19 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

Black female directors getting big budget Disney movies, but flopping hard....sad stuff.

 

Ava Duvernay - A wrinkle in time

Nia Decosta - The marvels 

 

Ava big budget filmmaking career ended with that film. Same going to happen with Nia. Oh well. 

 

 

DaCosta is gonna get it even worse because it's not just a live-action Disney movie (a lot of those have flopped), it's the first MCU movie that is a total disaster at the box office.

[Mojoguy]

15 minutes ago, marveldcfox said:

Black female directors getting big budget Disney movies, but flopping hard....sad stuff.

 

Ava Duvernay - A wrinkle in time

Nia Decosta - The marvels 

 

Ava big budget filmmaking career ended with that film. Same going to happen with Nia. Oh well. 

 

 

If Marvels fails, it won't be Decosta's fault. I'm going blame Disney for making it be about confusing body switching instead of Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion, the bad marketing, and the two strikes.

 

Wrinkle wasn't Duvernay's fault, I consider it more of Jennifer Lee's failure since it was her script.

[MovieMan89]

10 minutes ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Shazam 2 somehow managed to have a 1.91x multiplier despite a microscopic opening weekend and no hype

 

If it's bad enough I think it's possible

It has virtually no direct comp though for Xmas. All the other notable December tentpoles are targeting kids/families. I just think it has to make like 100 DOM/300 WW by default honestly. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by MovieMan89

[JustLurking]

4 minutes ago, MovieMan89 said:

It has virtually no direct comp though for Xmas. All the other notable December tentpoles are targeting kids/families. I just think it has to make like 100 DOM/300 WW by default honestly. 

There is literally another superhero film releasing on christmas?

[Hatebox]

5 hours ago, eddyxx said:

 

They asked her what should fans be excited to see from this and she responded the tag scene. So nothing in the actual movie? Just the after credit scene?

well it is an MCU movie. 

[Zakiyyah6]

2 hours ago, Mojoguy said:

If Marvels fails, it won't be Decosta's fault. I'm going blame Disney for making it be about confusing body switching instead of Captain Marvel: Secret Invasion, the bad marketing, and the two strikes.

 

Wrinkle wasn't Duvernay's fault, I consider it more of Jennifer Lee's failure since it was her script.

I'm a black chick who loves film and I'd love nothing more than to have a big black female director, one who directs good blockbusters as well as dramas but I have to be honest. Ava Duvernay's direction was underwhelming too. It wasn't just the script. And I don't even hate A Wrinkle In Time but Ava shares the blame for its creative failures just like Lee does. That film convinced me that Ava isn't cut out for blockbuster films and that's why I wasn't crying when New Gods was cancelled.

 

On the other hand Nia DaCosta direction on Candyman was very good but the script was undercooked. Her direction is the only reason that I gave Candyman 2021 3 out of 5 stars on Letterboxd. If The Marvels sucks, I doubt it will be her fault. All that being said it is a gosh darn shame what is happening. It's depressing. Why couldn't DaCosta be put on a more interesting project? 

[PNF2187]

2 hours ago, HummingLemon496 said:

Shazam 2 somehow managed to have a 1.91x multiplier despite a microscopic opening weekend and no hype

 

If it's bad enough I think it's possible

 

BvS already set a precedent with March DCEU releases going sub 2x, so it Fury of the Gods just made it 2 for 2.

 

I feel like WW84 is a reasonable baseline target for Aquaman's legs. That wasn't well received, opened on Christmas Day with a dual release on HBO Max and still managed to hit 2.80x.

 

I don't think The Marvels is going sub 2x. It's not impossible, but I think Thanksgiving week is going to help get it to at least double its opening weekend.

[eddyxx]

Remember when people on here were speculating that Dacosta would get hired for Secret Wars ? If there was any truth to that it’s gonna go up in smoke now.

[Valonqar]

Here's what I said over a year ago in my now legendary Yes We KEN Club:

One of many reasons why Barbie would outgross TM: 

 

Quote

 

It's going to be a novelty amid endless sequels 

It's primary target audience, unlike lets say SH genre, are women and they are famously leggy audience (repeat views, watching in groups)

 

 

All reasons why TM would make less than Barbie:

 

Quote

 

OTOH, despite advantages such as the most powerful brand in cinema and CM's boxoffice, TM has some potential disadvantages:

 

with Marvel increasing the number of female SH and teaming them up in movies, this team-up may not be as novel as they thought to give it a competitive edge

 

The team-up doesn't carry much weight. Monica isn't exactly a Wandavision breakout and is the most known for "the worst line in MCU" according to Youtube. They banked on Ms Marvel reception but the show ended up the least watched of all Marvel live action D+ shows, drawing only half of Hawkeye audience (Hawkeye was previously the least watched), with first episode landing on #10 of Top 10 Steaming Shows below even the First Kill while the second and UPDATE third episode couldn't even make Top 10 which never happened to Marvel before. While critics loved it, audience gave it lower marks compared to other MCU shows so it's the worst rated show by the audience. The biggest cited issue was childishness and slow pace while fans from the Subcontinent had some additional complaints. Point being, this team up isn't exactly 3 Spideys from new and old movies or even Thor and Hulk, another iconic character.

 

The movie will be more creative than CM which is good but some decisions could go either way. Audience in general is OK with measured weirdness but beyond that could strike them as silly and stupid. So we'll see how they execute it. 

 

While there's no SH fatigue, novetly is gone. Occasional events such as NWH are hard to replicate.

 

 

For full write up see:

 

 

Point being, nowhere in my disadvantages did I mention CM's Avengers boost, Brie Larson detractors or MCU death (acknowledging lack of novelty =/= brand death), 3 things that get discussed here in a loop. TM had its own specific set of problems and I now believe they did it in in the end. But back then I didn't know to what extend those problems would hurt. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Valonqar

[Kon]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

Here's what I said over a year ago in my now legendary Yes We KEN Club:

One of many reasons why Barbie would outgross TM: 

 

 

All reasons why TM would make less than Barbie:

 

 

For full write up see:

 

 

Point being, nowhere in my disadvantages did I mention CM's Avengers boost, Brie Larson detractors or MCU death (acknowledging lack of novelty =/= brand death), 3 things that get discussed here in a loop. TM had its own specific set of problems and I now believe they did it in in the end. But back then I didn't know to what extend those problems would hurt. 

 

I just read your club from page 1. It was so funny to read the "Barbie vs The Marvels" box office predictions on the first pages.

 

Also, many people should not engage in gambling.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Kon

[Sckathian]

I don’t think it’s obvious this will hurt Decosta’s direction career. A breakout hit would have been massive but from her interview she’s just taking this as an experience to work on a big film. The concept is Marvels fault and ultimately they take away creative agency from the director so I doubt it matters.

 

She won’t be getting another superhero gig due to the attachment of Marvels though.

[eddyxx]

3 hours ago, Valonqar said:

Here's what I said over a year ago in my now legendary Yes We KEN Club:

One of many reasons why Barbie would outgross TM: 

 

 

All reasons why TM would make less than Barbie:

 

 

For full write up see:

 

 

Point being, nowhere in my disadvantages did I mention CM's Avengers boost, Brie Larson detractors or MCU death (acknowledging lack of novelty =/= brand death), 3 things that get discussed here in a loop. TM had its own specific set of problems and I now believe they did it in in the end. But back then I didn't know to what extend those problems would hurt. 

 

[Zakiyyah6]

52 minutes ago, Sckathian said:

I don’t think it’s obvious this will hurt Decosta’s direction career. A breakout hit would have been massive but from her interview she’s just taking this as an experience to work on a big film. The concept is Marvels fault and ultimately they take away creative agency from the director so I doubt it matters.

 

She won’t be getting another superhero gig due to the attachment of Marvels though.

I think flops like The Marvels is looking to be always hurt a female director's career, even if it isn't her fault. It's not fair but it seems to be the way of Hollywood. That doesn't mean that her career is over of course. She's a talented director and will make other small dramas and she loves those types of films anyway.