The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[Avatree]

1 hour ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

I think the target audience was women but they thought it would draw in the men who always see Marvel movies in droves. Marvel movies have a good female fan base but they're predominantly directed towards men so I think that they should have had another male character in there that wasn't Samuel L Jackson and preferably in the 30-40 year age bracket. Hey I may be a Lefty SJW feminist but I have box office brain so I always think about these things. I know some people are going to hate me for this but I would never make a 200M action movie with an all female team and villain. I think female led action movies are already at a huge disadvantage and adding more disadvantages on there is playing with fire. Again I just think like a studio head when it comes to these things. Sorry. Lol

And there it is, the most brain dead take I've seen all day.

[Jonwo]

I think stupidity has entered the building, Black Panther needed a white co-lead is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time and I've seen dumb things.

[Hypercortical]

10 minutes ago, Youngstar said:

Just popping in here to say that I absolutely loved (8-9/10 on a MCU scale) the movie. Sad it won't do well, but at least I really liked it.

how does an MCU scale compare to a general scale?

[Kon]

4 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

I think stupidity has entered the building, Black Panther needed a white co-lead is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time and I've seen dumb things.

 

Nobody in this thread has said that. You should read again.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Kon

[tdangie]

Ok I'm not sure if this is a popular opinion or not, but I think that Disney should've invested more in a BIG actor to draw in audiences especially with movies like the Marvels. Big movie stars are in short supply these days, but if they could afford Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for Moana, then I genuinely think they have enough money to recruit him into the MCU even after the Black Adam debacle.

 

Like I really do think that the Marvels + The Rock as the villain/strong supporting character would've drawn in more audiences.

[DInky]

7 minutes ago, Jonwo said:

I think stupidity has entered the building, Black Panther needed a white co-lead is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time and I've seen dumb things.

 

I didn't say that.

[TommyOliver]

The Marvels obviously needs more dogs in it. They're clearly catering to cat people with Goose the Flerken. Lol

[TommyOliver]

3 minutes ago, tdangie said:

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson

I'm guessing he's not in a hurry to do anymore superhero flicks after his experience with Black Adam. Lol

[TheFlatLannister]

32 minutes ago, Bob Train said:

Agreed. If anything, NWH cracks $2b due to no COVID and China if released today. 

 

$100M more DOM +  $250M China and it stays flat in other OS markets = O/U $2.25B

[Kon]

1 hour ago, DInky said:

 

If that's the reality we live in then I hate it. It's the same as saying that Ryan Coogler really should have shoved a white co-lead into the Black Panther movies. The fact that he didn't need to do that for white men to show up for those movies is even more depressing somehow. It means that men can look past race but they can't look past gender.

 

We should consider that Black Panther really attracted a bigger black audience that superhero movies regularly don't attract. That's why it was a really big success.

 

Instead, although Captain Marvel was promoted as the "first MCU movie with a female lead", the biggest audience was still men at the end. That's why people say a lot of its popularity was related to MCU brand.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Kon

[Zakiyyah6]

3 minutes ago, Kon said:

 

We should consider that Black Panther really attracted a bigger black audience that superhero movies regularly don't attract. That's why it was a really big success.

 

Instead, although Captain Marvel was promoted as the "first MCU movie with a female lead", the main audience was still men at the end. That's why people say a lot of its popularity was related to MCU brand.

I keep having certain posters tell me that 69M of Captain Marvel's opening weekend came from female ticket buyers but I have a question? How come all of those 69M worth of female ticket buyers aren't interested in seeing the sequel? I'd like for that question to be answered.

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

I think one thing that's interesting is that *conceptually* Ms Marvel should be no more a "kids" thing than Spider-Man.

 

They are the same age and have many adolescent qualities and both have *potential* to be both relatable on the positive front and annoying on the negative.

 

Heck, if anything, Peter Parker can take the greater lean towards the whiny.

 

I think that's where cultural history and gender dynamics of the past cast waves into the future. Ms Marvel can't trade on nostalgia, history, pop culture iconography, common knowledge, historically successful former iterations and general visibility. VERY few female characters can, because most figures that have had the time to develop that status are male (...Most not all before anyone jumps in on that).

 

We've seen that in Black Panther that kind of dynamic can be overcome if a HUGE proportion of the previously underrepresented demographic come on board AND the film is a big hit with other audiences AND was previously introduced amid an already established popular event AND you hit the cultural zeitgeist at exactly the right time. But female audiences have never indicated they would act like that over this kind of film - they're more likely to act that way over a Barbie, Mean Girls, Twilight, Titanic or Mamma Mia that operate from a fundamentally female gaze, which is hardly surprising. But they 've never had the guts to go genuinely female gaze with any of these movies - even the one with actual female leads - an notably the closest they've come is WandaVision that was ACTUALLY successful.  

 

 

 

 

[Arlborn]

13 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

I think one thing that's interesting is that *conceptually* Ms Marvel should be no more a "kids" thing than Spider-Man.

 

They are the same age and have many adolescent qualities and both have *potential* to be both relatable on the positive front and annoying on the negative.

 

Heck, if anything, Peter Parker can take the greater lean towards the whiny.

 

I think that's where cultural history and gender dynamics of the past cast waves into the future. Ms Marvel can't trade on nostalgia, history, pop culture iconography, common knowledge, historically successful former iterations and general visibility. VERY few female characters can, because most figures that have had the time to develop that status are male (...Most not all before anyone jumps in on that).

 

We've seen that in Black Panther that kind of dynamic can be overcome if a HUGE proportion of the previously underrepresented demographic come on board AND the film is a big hit with other audiences AND was previously introduced amid an already established popular event AND you hit the cultural zeitgeist at exactly the right time. But female audiences have never indicated they would act like that over this kind of film - they're more likely to act that way over a Barbie, Mean Girls, Twilight, Titanic or Mamma Mia that operate from a fundamentally female gaze, which is hardly surprising. But they 've never had the guts to go genuinely female gaze with any of these movies - even the one with actual female leads - an notably the closest they've come is WandaVision that was ACTUALLY successful.  

 

 

 

 

This an interesting perspective. I wonder (I haven't seen it myself yet) if they actually got it for this movie in particular, many reviews indicate something to this effect, and the positive reviews are mainly from women. The problem is, not many women will actually see that since they failed* to sell this movie, which is a pity.

 

 

* due to many, many, many factors already discussed in here over 300 pages, AKA the death by a thousand cuts

[Hypercortical]

43 minutes ago, tdangie said:

Ok I'm not sure if this is a popular opinion or not, but I think that Disney should've invested more in a BIG actor to draw in audiences especially with movies like the Marvels. Big movie stars are in short supply these days, but if they could afford Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson for Moana, then I genuinely think they have enough money to recruit him into the MCU even after the Black Adam debacle.

 

Like I really do think that the Marvels + The Rock as the villain/strong supporting character would've drawn in more audiences.

isn't dwayne the one pushing for Moana? Otherwise it would be too early to expect disney to adapt it to live action

[Hypercortical]

22 minutes ago, Ipickthiswhiterose said:

I think one thing that's interesting is that *conceptually* Ms Marvel should be no more a "kids" thing than Spider-Man.

 

They are the same age and have many adolescent qualities and both have *potential* to be both relatable on the positive front and annoying on the negative.

 

Heck, if anything, Peter Parker can take the greater lean towards the whiny.

 

I think that's where cultural history and gender dynamics of the past cast waves into the future. Ms Marvel can't trade on nostalgia, history, pop culture iconography, common knowledge, historically successful former iterations and general visibility. VERY few female characters can, because most figures that have had the time to develop that status are male (...Most not all before anyone jumps in on that).

 

We've seen that in Black Panther that kind of dynamic can be overcome if a HUGE proportion of the previously underrepresented demographic come on board AND the film is a big hit with other audiences AND was previously introduced amid an already established popular event AND you hit the cultural zeitgeist at exactly the right time. But female audiences have never indicated they would act like that over this kind of film - they're more likely to act that way over a Barbie, Mean Girls, Twilight, Titanic or Mamma Mia that operate from a fundamentally female gaze, which is hardly surprising. But they 've never had the guts to go genuinely female gaze with any of these movies - even the one with actual female leads - an notably the closest they've come is WandaVision that was ACTUALLY successful.  

 

 

 

 

Well I think Ms. Marvel absolutrly operates from a female gaze. And i'll be surprised if The Marvels doesn't feel that way with the Female Director, 3/4 female writers, and Female executive producer. 

[Human]

Is it just me or are the reports getting worse every second?

[tdangie]

29 minutes ago, Hypercortical said:

isn't dwayne the one pushing for Moana? Otherwise it would be too early to expect disney to adapt it to live action

Disney wouldn't have agreed to making that movie if they didn't think it would make a ton of money. While I don't think he's a superstar, I still believe the Rock is a draw for the general population especially in comparison to other "famous" actors nowadays.

 

Another option would be adding Tom Cruise to the MCU to stir up hype (I think that would also generate a ton of buzz), but I feel pretty doubtful about that ever happening unfortunately.... 

Edited November 9, 2023 by tdangie

[OncomingStorm93]

1 hour ago, Jonwo said:

I think stupidity has entered the building, Black Panther needed a white co-lead is the dumbest thing I've read in a very long time and I've seen dumb things.

I’ve been out of the loop today. Who in the hell does anytime think is a “white co-lead” in either of those films?

[Bob Train]

RT score down to 60%. I could see it going down throughout the weekend, as most movies do.

[Hypercortical]

i still see 61