The Dark Knight Rises (SPOILERS ALLOWED - Discussion Thread)

[JackO]

Oh please. Why do you think everything has to be wrapped up in a pretty pink bow? Joker is subdued and surrounded by police officers, anyone knows that he's under wraps. The implication is astoundingly clear.

It's not a failing of TDK. It's a failing of TDKR to not even address the impact of the Joker for even 5 seconds.

As for Bane, yeah his death is final, whoop-de-do. Doesn't mean it was executed well at all. In fact TDKR's handling of its villains is the one point I dislike about the film.

I expected a bit more than resorting to a meme picture to try and make your case.

I don't really need to make a case to someone declaring people stupid and fails. You make it for me. So, assuming he is in custody let's list all the possible ways the "end" of the Joker is in TDK

1. In Gotham City jail

2. escape in transportation to jail

3. In Arkhum Aslyum

4. escape Arkhum Aslyum

5. escapes from SWAT team surrounding him

And I can go on and on and on....again, I heard read the same complaints after TDK was released. Now you are trying to say the gaping plot hole is something that should be applauded? Yet over on RTM, all people do is complain about supposed plot holes in TDKR. Different standards. You still haven't said one thing of substance as to how the villains are mishandled in TDKR other then "it sucks"

And you should have known ahead of time that Joker wasn't going to be addressed in TDKR since Nolan said that to the press.

Edited July 27, 2012 by JackO

[haku]

I don't really need to make a case to someone declaring people stupid and fails. You make it for me. So, assuming he is in custody let's list all the possible ways the "end" of the Joker is in TDK

1. In Gotham City jail

2. escape in transportation to jail

3. In Arkhum Aslyum

4. escape Arkhum Aslyum

5. escapes from SWAT team surrounding him

And I can go on and on and on....again, I heard read the same complaints after TDK was released. Now you are trying to say the gaping plot hole is something that should be applauded? Yet over on RTM, all people do is complain about supposed plot holes in TDKR. Different standards. You still haven't said one thing of substance as to how the villains are mishandled in TDKR other then "it sucks"

And you should have known ahead of time that Joker wasn't going to be addressed in TDKR since Nolan said that to the press.

Sorry to butt in the conversation, but I just had to .

I see what you're saying here, but it's just going to be one of those agree to disagree things because even though the Joker's "end" is less definite than Bane's, it was much more satisfying for me personally. I don't need to see them cart the Joker away. I don't need to see him locked in a cell or anything. He gave a speech that honestly summed his character up and gave us a recap of what he did to the city and to Harvey Dent. The composition of that scene was just amazing! Call me a Nolanite, but that's seriously one of my favorite moments in any of the Batman series.

Now, what works against Bane is the fact that he's revealed as more of a side villain. I know people say that they worked side by side, but I really see it as Talia pulling the strings and Bane making it happen. Because, I mean, who convinced Bane to do this? Who gave Bane these ideals? It was obviously Talia because honestly why else would Bane do all of this? So, just at the surface level you suddenly feel like Bane isn't the real threat here and only a few moments later he's blasted away with a cheesy "wait for the applause" pause for Catwoman's one-liner. Let's not forget that even right before the big reveal Batman beats Bane into submission after unfastening a few tubes from his mask. Then he's crying and Talia's fixing him up. So the last thing I remember when I think of Bane: He got his ass beat. He cried. Then he got blasted away in one shot.

I know you feel differently about it, but even people I know that loved the movie, they all agree that Bane's end felt cheap. So, we're certainly not the only ones coming away with that feeling. I can't quite articulate my issues with the scene outside of what I've said thus far, but all in all, it just didn't seem fitting for a character like him who had raised the stakes higher than any villain Gotham and Batman had ever faced. He deserved something different methinks, but hey, this is what we got.

Side note: I don't quite understand how Joker's open ending is a "gaping plot hole". Perhaps I'm missing the meaning of plot hole here.

Edited July 28, 2012 by haku

[Accursed Arachnid!™]

I don't really need to make a case to someone declaring people stupid and fails. You make it for me. So, assuming he is in custody let's list all the possible ways the "end" of the Joker is in TDK1. In Gotham City jail2. escape in transportation to jail3. In Arkhum Aslyum4. escape Arkhum Aslyum5. escapes from SWAT team surrounding him

Why does everything have to be spelled out for you? Is it a dream or real? Have you ever read a book? How dare Nolan presume everyone has an imagination?He's hanging there and here comes the SWAT team. He's not super powered, so I seriously doubt he gets away from 10+ armed men. He's insane so the only place he's going is Arkham. So the ONLY answer is he is in Arkham and is still there for the duration of TDKR. When Bane/Talia take over the city, the bridges are blown so the "Narrows" are cut off. No inmates at Arkham can escape and that's that.Is it really that hard for your mind to make that jump? To fill in the blanks? Or are you just doing what you normally do: arguing for the sake of arguing?

[Letsuseournoggin]

I've seen TDKR 5 times, so it's safe to say I'm a loonie and there's no doubt Bane's death is crap. The guy who turned Gotham upside down on its head and had Batman and the city up against the wall was delegated to a Catwoman one liner? Come on... Nolan poorly handled it. No excuses can be made, even from a Batman loonie like me that loves this film to pieces.

[CJohn]

The death of Bane sucks. It is the worst thing of the movie, IMO. And I really loved the movie.

Edited August 3, 2012 by CJohn

[Phil in the Blank]

I had no problem with how TDK ended. It was pretty obvious that the Joker was caught by SWAT teams and was sent to Arkhum Asylum. Just like I didn't need to see how Bruce got back to Gotham in TDKR, I don't need to see that in TDK.I think what is also obvious was that Nolan was intending to use the Joker in some way in the final film. Who knows, maybe the original idea was for Bane to let the Joker lose and use him to weaken Batman and THEN break him. Certainly Bruce hearing that the Joker escaped and was causing havoc again would have given him a better reason to get back into the game then hearing rumours about a masked man.

[Gopher]

Rarely is a single frame or a plotpoint the thing I like least about a movie, but yeah, Bane's death is my biggest beef with TDKR. Again, good last line, but for a villain that's more terrifying and menacing than anyone else in the trilogy, he needed to go out on a bigger note.

[4815162342]

I had no problem with how TDK ended. It was pretty obvious that the Joker was caught by SWAT teams and was sent to Arkhum Asylum. Just like I didn't need to see how Bruce got back to Gotham in TDKR, I don't need to see that in TDK.I think what is also obvious was that Nolan was intending to use the Joker in some way in the final film. Who knows, maybe the original idea was for Bane to let the Joker lose and use him to weaken Batman and THEN break him. Certainly Bruce hearing that the Joker escaped and was causing havoc again would have given him a better reason to get back into the game then hearing rumours about a masked man.

Here's food for thought: If the Joker had been used in the film, I think inevitably he would have aided Batman once he deduced the full extent of Bane's scheme. After all, The Joker says he wants Batman to be alive because the world is more fun with him in it. So in a way it'd be perfectly in character for the Joker to screw up Bane/Talia's plans to keep Batman and Gotham existing, since the Joker can't have fun if his two playthings are destroyed.

[The Dark Alfred]

Yep, the two villain death scenes aren't great, but that doesn't take much away from the rest of the quality elements. The script is great, Nolan's best work of dialogues.

[Letsuseournoggin]

Here's food for thought: If the Joker had been used in the film, I think inevitably he would have aided Batman once he deduced the full extent of Bane's scheme. After all, The Joker says he wants Batman to be alive because the world is more fun with him in it. So in a way it'd be perfectly in character for the Joker to screw up Bane/Talia's plans to keep Batman and Gotham existing, since the Joker can't have fun if his two playthings are destroyed.

Now that's a very interesting thought. Having Bane carry out his scheme and then having Joker come out in the second half of the film when prisoners from Arkum and the prison are released. Bane doesn't realize the full extent of what Joker can truly do. Second half is full of Joker fucking up Bane's plan, but also giving Batman hell. Having them both there for Batman to try to handle would have been epic.

[Hangman]

Here's food for thought: If the Joker had been used in the film, I think inevitably he would have aided Batman once he deduced the full extent of Bane's scheme. After all, The Joker says he wants Batman to be alive because the world is more fun with him in it. So in a way it'd be perfectly in character for the Joker to screw up Bane/Talia's plans to keep Batman and Gotham existing, since the Joker can't have fun if his two playthings are destroyed.

I don't think Batman would never team up with the Joker after what happened in TDK. The Joker would probably like to see Batman fail.

Yep, the two villain death scenes aren't great, but that doesn't take much away from the rest of the quality elements. The script is great, Nolan's best work of dialogues.

Really? I think it was his worst. Nothing is really memorable except for some of Alfred's speeches. Way inferior to BB or TDK. Any of Harvey Dent's or the Joker's dialogue was leagues ahead of the "best" dialogue in TDKR.

[MrPink]

I don't think Batman would never team up with the Joker after what happened in TDK. The Joker would probably like to see Batman fail.Really? I think it was his worst. Nothing is really memorable except for some of Alfred's speeches. Way inferior to BB or TDK. Any of Harvey Dent's or the Joker's dialogue was leagues ahead of the "best" dialogue in TDKR.

I think the rampant speculation going on had Heath lived was that the Joker would take a Hannibal Lecter type presence. In Jail, but sort of engages in discussion from time to time with Batman. By the end, he could have escaped and caused more havoc to throw into the climax, or something like that.As for dialogue, Bane had some very cool (albeit a bit cheesy) dialogue during the first fight with Batman. Bane in general had some pretty cool lines, but as a whole, this film did lack some of the sharp dialogue that TDK and to a lesser extent, BB had.

[4815162342]

I don't think Batman would never team up with the Joker after what happened in TDK. The Joker would probably like to see Batman fail.

Oh he wouldn't. What I'm saying is that the Joker, as much as he is about chaos/destruction/etc, needs to have both Batman and Gotham stay alive. Batman simply failing or dying he would want to prevent. By the end of TDK the Joker knows that Batman essentially won't ever abandon his code, but he still says he wants Batman alive and well so the two of them can do the crime dance for eternity. Bane's plan essentially wipes any chance of that out, so Joker would want to clear the city of that interloper so it's just him and Bats again like old times.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

I wish Bane had a better death. I still love Bane as a character.

[The Movie Man]

CHILDREN CHILDREN? Just noticed a couple of questions on this page...* First, it is 9 years later, why should they mention the Joker.* And Bane's death was fine, as he was just the muscle! And remember they still had to get rid of the bomb!* Also who was the mastermind behind all the planning - was it Bain or Tate? I think Bane was the muscle and Miranda Tate was the mastermind.* And on Bane's death being quick, that always happens - as usually the villain is winning the fight, and then a couple of good or lucky shots kills the villain.

[Kvikk Lunsj]

CHILDREN CHILDREN? Just noticed a couple of questions on this page...* First, it is 9 years later, why should they mention the Joker.* And Bane's death was fine, as he was just the muscle! And remember they still had to get rid of the bomb!* Also who was the mastermind behind all the planning - was it Bain or Tate? I think Bane was the muscle and Miranda Tate was the mastermind.* And on Bane's death being quick, that always happens - as usually the villain is winning the fight, and then a couple of good or lucky shots kills the villain.

Bane was still intelligent. I do no think he the muscle. Bane would be vice president. He was number 2 in the league of shadows. It is in league Shadows in batman begins. Ras hides his indenity by having someone look like the head of league of shadows.

[CJohn]

Bane had a shit death for such an important character.

[bryan]

Kind of agree with some of you, Bane deserved a most impressive "permission to die", but the film overall, story, effects, act, characters, environment, duraration, end was perfectI just love TDKR

[4815162342]

Bane was still intelligent. I do no think he the muscle. Bane would be vice president. He was number 2 in the league of shadows. It is in league Shadows in batman begins. Ras hides his indenity by having someone look like the head of league of shadows.

Bane's intelligence in TDKR is more of an animalistic cunning. He's smart enough to carry out complex orders and make decisions on the fly if it's an emergency. But it's fairly obvious that the whole plan for Gotham and breaking Batman was Talia's brainchild.Compared to the Bane of the comics, his intelligence took a downgrade.

[The Movie Man]

CHILDREN, CHILDREN!!!Also, Bane had 2 deaths during that 1 scene.He had 1 longgreat fight scene with Batman where he was beaten and then talked to Batman for over a minute in a death confession......then Nolan threw in the twist with Talia and Talia stabbing Batman....which allowed Bain to recover...and then Bain again died quickly minutes later, after Talia left.