Birth of a Nation | Fox Searchlight | Sundance Grand Jury Prize. ONLY DISCUSS THE MOVIE AND BOX OFFICE IN THIS THREAD.

[filmlover]

2 minutes ago, jandrew said:

 

You aren't, but other people will. The movie is not as DOA as we make it out to seem, or want it to be. Sure, awards watch may be worthless now, but let's not act like this is going to open below "Friend Request" and "Middle School: Worst Years of My Life."

This is the kind of movie that actually needs awards buzz to survive at the box office though, especially with the tough subject matter and zero starpower among the cast. If it hadn't been a Best Picture frontrunner (and didn't have a cast full of famous or familiar faces), 12 Years a Slave would've been lucky to make $15M in total.

[Dementeleus]

2 minutes ago, Lordmandeep said:

Imo considering some actors have gone down for rants and tweeta the fact he garners respect shows how shallow and hypocritical hollywood is.

 

People here see him as a talented guy who's also a complete dick. Which, I would guess, also applies to any other industry: some successful people are also terrible people, yet somehow others do business with them.

[Jandrew]

1 minute ago, filmlover said:

This is the kind of movie that actually needs awards buzz to survive at the box office though, especially with the tough subject matter and zero starpower among the cast. If it hadn't been a Best Picture frontrunner (and didn't have a cast full of famous or familiar faces), 12 Years a Slave would've been lucky to make $15M in total.

 

DOA means dead on arrival. Sure it may lose the legs that it could have easily acquired, but the movie isn't literally dead on arrival. 

 

We also assume that everyone's interest in the film has now petered away. Feelings on the NP story aside, that's just not true. Feelings on NP aside again, there are people who are defending him and wanting all this drama to just move on. Feelings on NP aside again again, there's still an audience out there.

 

This movie will be reallyyy interesting to watch with tracking, opening, and legs. But everyone saying "oh it won't be released now", "itll just move along quietly", is just more mishful thinking than actuality, imo.

[filmlover]

No one's saying the movie won't be released. I'm sure the movie will have its fans and those that see it will like it. I'm just not going to see it and give Nate Parker my money in any capacity.

[Jandrew]

8 minutes ago, filmlover said:

No one's saying the movie won't be released. I'm sure the movie will have its fans and those that see it will like it. I'm just not going to see it and give Nate Parker my money in any capacity.

 

There has been two main narratives with this thread: the first one is obvious, and that the movie is doomed. I'm just simply stating the movie isn't completely doomed. When you called this a "sinking ship" for what felt like the umpteenth time, I just took as you figure this movie is doomed to fall flat.

 

 

I never really had plans to see this, I'm tired of oppressed and slave movies, I need a breather. Maybe Hidden Figures will be a breath of fresh air. I had no idea those women were so integral to NASA. That's what I want to see more of, personally.

 

Seeing Selma's box office, which should've been $100M+ easily, maybe I'm not alone. We'll see, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

Edited August 18, 2016 by jandrew

[Dementeleus]

1 minute ago, jandrew said:

I'm tired of oppressed and slave movies, I need a breather. 

 

Even above and beyond the controversy, this is why the movie needs tremendous critical recognition and tons of award buzz. That's not absolutely impossible at this point, but it seems like a big long-shot, especially since there are already critics who weren't big fans of the actual film-making involved. (And full credit to those critics who said so back in January.)

 

You can't really blame Fox Searchlight for trying to push ahead -- at least for now. They've got a significant investment in the project. What remains to be seen is whether any of the PR push will settle the issue. My guess is that it won't.

[trifle]

3 minutes ago, Tele the Jet Baller said:

 

Even above and beyond the controversy, this is why the movie needs tremendous critical recognition and tons of award buzz. That's not absolutely impossible at this point, but it seems like a big long-shot, especially since there are already critics who weren't big fans of the actual film-making involved. (And full credit to those critics who said so back in January.)

 

You can't really blame Fox Searchlight for trying to push ahead -- at least for now. They've got a significant investment in the project. What remains to be seen is whether any of the PR push will settle the issue. My guess is that it won't.

 

 

There are a lot of GA who just don't follow this stuff.   My mom didn't know about it until I told her.  Obviously, those people won't be impacted.  A PR push by Fox may well serve to educate them.  And not to Fox's benefit.

Edited August 18, 2016 by trifle

[Nova]

This film wasn't going to be a box office monster to begin with. It was going to generate buzz because of awards season and because it's supposed to be a good film. That's what was supposed to give it box office life. 

 

However I don't think it's wrong to point out that its box office will take a hit. Instead of folks paying attention to the film itself there is this negative buzz around it. And no not negative in the way that can be brushed under the rug/hype can over come. It's the type of negativity that's going to follow the film around wherever it goes. Whenever a cast member does press, whenever it's talked about in general etc. 

[filmlover]

Worse comes to worse something will premiere at TIFF and FS will buy and make said acclaimed movie their main priority for the Oscar race.

[TalismanRing]

18 minutes ago, trifle said:

 

 

There are a lot of GA who just don't follow this stuff.   My mom didn't know about it until I told her.  Obviously, those people won't be impacted.  A PR push by Fox may well serve to educate them.  And not to Fox's benefit.

 

Fox's attempt to get ahead of it all with that terrible smug I-I-I interview with Parker is what jump started this wave of bad PR.  They knew since Sundance that this would be an issue and had 7 plus months to create a strategy and didn't even get as far as finding out that the victim had committed suicide.  Now they're bringing in the big guns?  Couple that with their main strategy to push the film was to have Parker go on a roadshow tour to churches and college  (yikes) and they're saying they're keeping to that and I don't see how they dig themselves out of this even if the film premieres to rapturous reviews at TIFF etc.

 

 

 

[Jandrew]

The colleges and churches tour didn't make sense with me to begin with. I know there's Christian themes, but typically when church groups get together they're going to a "feel good film." Judging by the last shot of the trailer alone, this is not that.

[Macleod]

13 hours ago, Talkie said:

 

Everyone should give a shit about all of them. 

 

Allen, Polanski and Salva are not merely rapists, they are child predators. At least Salva was tried and convicted of his crime and served time for it. (The fact that he continues to work on films with underage actors to this day is problematic, however.)

 

Polanski fled prosecution and Allen eluded it, even marrying one of his victims. Both continue to work and are feted by Hollywood, when they should have been driven out of the industry years ago. The reason all three continue to prosper is the attitude of people steeped in rape culture, who are willing to excuse rapists' crimes as long as the criminals are prominent or powerful enough.

 

All of these men should be treated as what they are: rapists and predators. Until that's the standard for every offender in Hollywood, no one who excuses some rapists can pretend to sit on a high horse. Period.

 

I thought we were sticking to Birth of a Nation and its potential box office here?  Oh well... Let me be clear, of course I do not deny or disagree with your overall statements here -- this problem is one of the darkest and disturbing of Hollywood history...and the fact that there has not been more attention to it is kind of sickening. 

 

However...pardon me for being contrarian in the midst of an overall throw-down on problematic human beings, but your statement on Allen is spurious and a bit of a stretch, one that I often see with extreme reactions against Allen.  Presuming guilt by association.  "Allen eluded prosecution"?  The word the judge used to describe this case was "inconclusive."  Feel what you want, but describe the case as it stands legally.  Is Allen's wife a "victim" of anything?  That's a bold claim, conjecture at best.  While it's no argument that Allen's work contains more than its fair share of written and visual evidence that could be argued to be reflecting a man's psychosis with similar predilections for younger women, the "case" is so dense on both Allen's and Farrow's sides that it's hard (or easy) to argue that either side could hold its fair share of truth...and consequence. 

 

Polanski fled America and American filmmaking and hasn't worked in "Hollywood" since, despite his films often getting some American distribution...but this fact is also often forgotten.  Hollywood doesn't control international financing.  There's clearly a big shade of similar accusations around someone like Bryan Singer, as well...but his projects continue to make a lot of money for a lot of people...so they are continually swept under the rug.

 

Again, I'm not disagreeing with your overall statement, of course...this is a huge problem, in Hollywood particularly, that gets pushed aside all too often (even going so far as to essentially bury a documentary on the subject), but we also need to be very precise with the words we are using to make claims against the so-called "accused" in any capacity.  Each of these situations (including this thread's focus) contain lots of evidence, but equally as much "hearsay."

[Noctis]

Talent doesn't have anything to do with what kind of person you are. You could be the best person in the world, and be devoid of talent. And vice versa. But what does that matter? The man fucking raped a woman.

 

That shows to me he's scum and the worst of the worst. I hope this movie fails with all my heart. The fucking c@nt. 

[The Futurist]

21 minutes ago, Noctis said:

Talent doesn't have anything to do with what kind of person you are. You could be the best person in the world, and be devoid of talent. And vice versa. But what does that matter? The man fucking raped a woman.

 

That shows to me he's scum and the worst of the worst. I hope this movie fails with all my heart. The fucking c@nt. 

 

There were actually two guys who raped her and the other guy is the screenwriter of the freaking movie, can you fucking believe it ?

 

And they BOTH speak of themselves as the victims in this story, can you fucking believe it ?

 

 

 

Edited August 18, 2016 by The Futurist

[MrPink]

2 hours ago, WrathOfHan said:

He raped El Chapo's privacy  

 

The writing of his article was the bigger affront tbh

[Jack Nevada]

Just now, MrPink said:

 

The writing of his article was the bigger affront tbh

 

[babz06]

2 hours ago, jandrew said:

The colleges and churches tour didn't make sense with me to begin with. I know there's Christian themes, but typically when church groups get together they're going to a "feel good film." Judging by the last shot of the trailer alone, this is not that.

There is a faith based component to the film since Turner preaches. 

[Jandrew]

18 minutes ago, babz06 said:

There is a faith based component to the film since Turner preaches. 

 

You mised the point of my post.

[Dementeleus]

I know a guy who knows Parker (worked with him on another project). He said he was a good guy. It's a horrible situation with no real upside anywhere.

[The Futurist]

4 minutes ago, Tele the Jet Baller said:

I know a guy who knows Parker (worked with him on another project). He said he was a good guy. It's a horrible situation with no real upside anywhere.

 

Well, that s the thing with crimes, though, you can live the most perfect life, be a hard working stand up guy for 85 years, that doesn't substract that moment when you destroyed another life for one hour one evening.

 

Most violent criminals hide their inner monster.