Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016)

[Kalo]

Took my Nephew's to see it again last night, and I think I liked it even MORE the second time, there is so much this movie did right that I wished TFA could have, not that I necessarily liked it better, but it just felt like there was more put into the plot and story.

 

Could it have been better? absolutely, I heard rumors that there was a Darth Vader sequence cut that explains Saw Gerrera's injuries, that if true makes me a little upset, because that would have helped. But considering I thought Saw Gerrera was a cartoon character and easily the worst character in the movie that's okay I guess.

 

I generally liked most of the characters better a second time as well. K-2SO was easily my favorite though, which is rare for me to have that kind of character as my favorite in a movie.  

 

Oh and both my Nephew's loved it btw. 

Edited December 21, 2016 by Kalo

[Jessie]

16 hours ago, dashrendar44 said:

Problem is not that Lucas's SW rips off/homage = "GOOD!" and Disney rips off/homage = "BAD!" (or vice versa).

 

It's that Disney rips off/homage SW as the be-all end-all only like the whole world revolves around SW's 77 closing the universe in a loop that devours itself (TFA was just a movie about how cool it is to be an OT fan, riffing on SW choked full of self-reference just for the sake of it, that's why anybody who harbours no nostalgic feeling toward the OT can't connect with this movie and remain cold at the self-patting) whereas Lucas, like all creative artists, was inspired by everything around him (from Flash Gordon, serials to racing, B-movie schlocks, westerns, Kurosawa and samurai movies, eastern philosophies, universal myths transmission, Roman Republic/Empire, WWII and dogfights, Arthurian legend, sword and sorcery, heroic fantasy and so on) to enrich and open up the universe to new stories, new takes through the SW prism.

 

Disney is only interested in regurgitating the OT's imagery, script and sheen to cuddle fans trapped into an unchallenging and comfortable arrested development's bubble instead of craving inspiration elsewhere outside that SW regalia bubble like Lucas did to infuse his universe with new takes on archetypes, imagery and push the story further into uncharted territories, developing those ideas he borrowed all over the place to catalyse them through the SW lens. When you ask Lucas what inspired him to make Star Wars, he will quote Kurosawa, Joseph Campbell's writings and the likes, when you ask the same question to JJ Abrams, he will say that the only thing inspiring him is watching George Lucas SW: A New Hope a million times...Talk about having creative and artistic blinders.

 

Lucas is an iconoclast, JJ Abrams is an Amanuensis. I'll always have more respect for the iconoclast than the one who doesn't challenge what he copies.

 

Disney are a business, they only care about money but seeing as I have Disney shares I'm perfectly happy with this, especially with brexit, I like to make the best out of the falling pound  ?

 

To be fair though, someone was always going to try reigniting this franchise, it could have been a lot worse. 

[Jessie]

17 hours ago, RandomJC said:

 

Jedi = Samurai. Just look at the clothes the Jedi wear are very Japanese inspired, along with their philosophy inspired from Japanese culture. Heck, a more direct lift is Hidden Fortress, 3PO and R2 are directly inspired by two peasants, Lucas has been on record several times admitting that.

 

Just google Star Wars and Kurosawa.

I'm joking I get the relevence, if I'm being honest though, I can't remember those Kurosawa movies. I was high for a lot of my film studies classes 

[Jessie]

14 hours ago, rukaio101 said:

Well, speaking as someone who harbours little nostalgia towards the OT (aside from, funnily enough, ROTJ) yet enjoyed the hell out of TFA, Imma have disagree with you on that point. 

 

Secondly, it's fairly unfair to compare the wealth of known references Lucas used for the OT with TFA. We've had decades since said OT were released for people to examine the OT in great deal, look for comparisons to other movies, find interviews with Lucas to talk about his inspirations, etc etc. TFA hasn't yet had that time or scrutiny. For all we know there are boatloads of references/inspiration from other stuff aside from the OT (which, fyi, is not a bad thing to be inspired by). But even if there aren't, who's to say that makes the film better or worse? Film writing/directing isn't like Pokemon. You don't get extra points for all the references/inspirations you have. It's what you do with what you have.

 

In fact, honestly, that's part of the reason I genuinely hate the whole criticism that 'TFA sucks because it's just ANH'. Ignoring for a moment that most films follow similar story structures, it's a lazy criticism that focuses on events that seem superficially similar rather than looking at how said events are actually handled. For example, in the whole 'TFA is just ANH' Han Solo's death is often compared to Obi Wan's. But really, they don't have that much in common aside from 'mentor figure is killed'. One takes in the middle of the final act, one takes place near the end of the second act, both of which severely affect their role and the emotion felt in the narrative. Obi Wan's death is designed to be the next step in Luke's narrative/development as a character, Solo's death is designed to be the end of his own narrative/development during the film (and possibly part of Kylo Ren's) and has little to do with Rey's development. Speaking of, Rey and Luke are both compared as people stuck on a backwater planet who dream of more, but their paths are clear quite different. Luke is a character willing to go along, but unaware how great his destiny is. His major arc in ANH is learning how to use and trust in the Force. Rey, on the other hand, is a character actively fighting her destiny (both in the form of leaving the planet and accepting the lightsaber). Her major character arc is learning to accept it (eventually climaxing in her summoning the lightsaber). Superficially they might look the same, but they're clearly different. And that's really the crux of the matter. Superficially TFA and ANH may appear the same and certainly there are a lot of similar story elements, but if you actually bother looking or thinking they're very clearly different films handling said elements in different ways with their own different visions. It's not like Into Darkness (one of the few films that can legitimately be called out for ripping off a precedessor) where they're literally saying the same lines word for word.

 

For comparison, I often take part in a short story writing contest on another forum I tend to frequent. Each month we get given a topic and write 1500 words on it. It's the same topic, but you still get a very wide variety of ways people handle that topic, from dark and serious to fun and irreverent. Now I'm not claiming TFA is as different from ANH as that (and neither should it being since they're both aiming for the same tone), but it is still appreciably different in the way it handles things. ANH doesn't have any major character like Finn, TFA doesn't have any major character like C3P0, Poe and Leia (despite apparently being in the same role) are very different characters who do very different things to their counterpoints. Kylo Ren and Vader are very different once you get into them (Hell, one of the major features of Kylo's character is that he's trying to be Vader and failing). The Death Star and the Starkiller Base...... Okay, they were both pretty damn similar, but there's a lot of ideas and imagery from the Starkiller base that I genuinely like more than the Death Star equivalent (like the time to fire being measured by the nearby sun going out).

 

Point is, for every story beat that seems similar to ANH, there's a shitton of stuff that's different. Don't get me wrong, there's stuff you can definitely criticize about TFA. There are a lot of lackluster elements in the final act (especially the space battle), there's a lot of stuff they really should've explored more (Finn's defection, Poe in the latter two acts), some muddled characterisation here and there, Rey being a Mary Sue (except don't do that because that criticism is equally bullshit (although that has more to do with the Mary Sue term in general being bullshit)). But claiming it's a bad movie because it has things in common with ANH is just plain untrue.

 

Oh, and fyi, everything I said above also applies to people who criticise Avatar for being 'Pocahontas/Dancing with Wolves with Smurfs'. That's also bullshit. I just don't bring it up much because I don't really care about that movie.

 

To be fair they were pretty similar, even down to the new death star (wait sorry it wasn't a death star because it was 3 times the size ?). There are a lot of similarities to ANH, it was just modernised and had a slightly different take but not too far away from their comfort zone.

 

All in all, I always expected JJ to copy the original, there was even rumours of it long before release, it's what he does best and TFA to me was a nostalgic machine put there to let people know a new franchise is coming, it felt like a massive trailer where half way through you're already looking forward to the rian Johnson sequel more than the one you are watching. To me though this didn't bother me, but maybe thats because I wasn't a massive lover of the OT in the first place.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Jessie

[RandomCat]

1 hour ago, Jessie said:

I'm joking I get the relevence, if I'm being honest though, I can't remember those Kurosawa movies. I was high for a lot of my film studies classes 

 

Well, three things there that should change. 

[Kalo]

On 12/20/2016 at 1:38 PM, dashrendar44 said:

Problem is not that Lucas's SW rips off/homage = "GOOD!" and Disney rips off/homage = "BAD!" (or vice versa).

 

It's that Disney rips off/homage SW as the be-all end-all only like the whole world revolves around SW's 77 closing the universe in a loop that devours itself (TFA was just a movie about how cool it is to be an OT fan, riffing on SW choked full of self-reference just for the sake of it, that's why anybody who harbours no nostalgic feeling toward the OT can't connect with this movie and remain cold at the self-patting) whereas Lucas, like all creative artists, was inspired by everything around him (from Flash Gordon, serials to racing, B-movie schlocks, westerns, Kurosawa and samurai movies, eastern philosophies, universal myths transmission, Roman Republic/Empire, WWII and dogfights, Arthurian legend, sword and sorcery, heroic fantasy and so on) to enrich and open up the universe to new stories, new takes through the SW prism.

 

Disney is only interested in regurgitating the OT's imagery, script and sheen to cuddle fans trapped into an unchallenging and comfortable arrested development's bubble instead of craving inspiration elsewhere outside that SW regalia bubble like Lucas did to infuse his universe with new takes on archetypes, imagery and push the story further into uncharted territories, developing those ideas he borrowed all over the place to catalyse them through the SW lens. When you ask Lucas what inspired him to make Star Wars, he will quote Kurosawa, Joseph Campbell's writings and the likes, when you ask the same question to JJ Abrams, he will say that the only thing inspiring him is watching George Lucas SW: A New Hope a million times...Talk about having creative and artistic blinders.

 

Lucas is an iconoclast, JJ Abrams is an Amanuensis. I'll always have more respect for the iconoclast than the one who doesn't challenge what he copies.

 

I can't completely disagree with you, but while I do hold some nostalgia of the OT, it's nothing compared to the TP, which I was absolutely obsessed with as a kid, but I still loved TFA, however I am getting tired of thier focus being completly on the OT, especially ANH, becuase it's easily my least favorite of the OT. but I do still love that movie, but I really hope they can move away from the nostalgia of the OT eventually and I would like a new enemy not Empire related, or at least a bit more original aesthetic look to the movies going forward, I do kind of understand why they choose to go that rout for TFA though, I just hope they have the guts to pull away from that some. I really hope your wrong about Disney only interested in regurgitating the OT's imagery and script. but I see where your coming from, I feel in order for this franchise to last in the long run, they will have to take more risks in the future, I'm okay with a little love for the OT for the moment, but they are going to have to move on eventually.  

 

But JJ is not directing EP VIII, who is known for not being a orignal director, the fact that they are using someone like Rian Johnson for Ep VIII does give me some hope they are moving forward. 

Edited December 22, 2016 by Kalo

[cannastop]

10/10

 

This shit is awesome. Probably the fastest my heart's ever beaten in a movie theater.

Edited December 23, 2016 by cannastop

[baumer]

As someone who changed his mind after a second viewing, I'll just say that it really helps that I watched ANH the night before I went to see it a second time.  It really is incredible how the two films tie in together.

[Rorschach]

This review is a little late like others, I thought that the first act and partially the second act were a tad bit rushed and felt weird considering all the jumping around from planet to planet that was going on. However, I do feel that all the great things about the movie heavily outweigh and mute all the other problems I have with it. Both Darth Vader scenes combined are easily better than half the movies I've seen so far this year and easily rank atop some of the best scenes in the franchise. I also really found all the characters to be quite likable, my favorites being K-2SO and Chirrut. The villain is perfectly over-the-top as well and fun to watch. Mads Mikkelson was good, but wasted given his small screen time. Honestly, he could've been played by anyone and it wouldn't have changed my opinion. Overall, the good heavily outweighs the bad in this film and gives me hope for other future spin-offs.

 

A-

 

(CGI Tarkin and Leia were heavily unnecessary) 

 

Edited December 23, 2016 by Rorschach

[ShouldIBeHere]

Hmmm... the first hour really is not much fun to sit through, at least for someone not too much of a SW fan.

 

But I found the last hour to be pretty spectacular. And the cinematography and set design were among the most amazing of the year.

 

Biggest pros: acting, cinematography, CGI, set design, action of the final act, great transition into ANH. I also liked that they finally really reacted to the destruction caused by the Death Star while the destruction of Alderaan and several planets in TFA seemed like mere side-notes. I also liked that they did not make any compromises and killed off all of the characters in the end.

 

Biggest cons: exposition, too many characters you do not know or care about enough, therefore, the emotional impact does not work as well, music (too loud and pompous in too many scenes that simply do not need such orchestration), I hated the new droid, as well as the cameo of C3PO and R2D2.

 

7/10

 

 

(What I really do not understand is when I read people talking about how "deep" RO is and that it has so many analogies to terrorism or even Aleppo. Come on. It showed war more as war than all the other SW movies, which was good. But nothing more than that.)

Edited December 24, 2016 by ShouldIBeHere

[filmlover]

A week later and this movie has kinda become a big blur to me other than the Vadar scene and the ending. Definitely a very minor entry in the series.

[angeldelmito]

it was cute. didn't watch episodes 1-6 so when the audience reacted in a big way to something i was unbothered.

 

but anyway, love jyn (and felicity jones, she better get that paycheck girl!), the robot (cassian?), and the blind guy who was obsessed with the force. they were the best. i liked the rest of the crew, too. 

 

the movie had AMAAAAAAAZING visuals. some parts of the score stuck out, too.

 

i don't really have any cons for the movie......... its sad how they all get got at the end though.

 

75/100 (C+)

[John Marston]

Whoa, I'm surprised how much I liked this movie. Better than FA in my opinion

Edited December 25, 2016 by John Marston

[BadAtGender]

In the top 3 of all Star Wars films. 

[Fancyarcher]

This was very solid. The action and last act was the best part, but there were a lot of good scenes in general. While I felt like Jyn was a bit of an underdeveloped protagonist, and most of the other characters could have been development better as well, I found the overall story very solid. Plus extra points for seeing Vader be a bad-ass again. 

 

Giacchino's score was also very good, though perhaps a bit too epic, and leaning too much on previous themes. 

 

Plus whatever accent Whittaker was doing (alien perhaps?) was awesomely hilarious. 

 

Also the Tarkin and Leia CGI recreations didn't bother me that much. 8 / 10

Edited December 27, 2016 by Fancyarcher

[Ethan Hunt]

My first thought after the movie:

 

Gee, I really like The Force Awakens

[K1stpierre]

Okay! Now that I have my thoughts in order:

 

But first, I just need to shout this out loud and get an anwser asap as my mind still can't comprehend this: HOW THE HELL IS LEIA IN THIS (CARRIE FISHER HERSELF)??? I mean was it CGI??? Was it actually not her and a really spectacular fake person looking like her???? (Also how the hell does Tarkin look like the same age when ANH came out like 40 years ago??? Do the SW's producers have the fountain of youth available?)

 

Okay, now with that out of the way:

 

 

Wow, so this movie is pretty interesting. I walked in with pretty eh expectations from hearing what people have said about it, but more importantly it had more to do with my general hype for it, which was really low as since this is a prequel to ANH, we all know eventually how it ends and what's going to happen. Going in I think to me it felt pretty obvious that everyone was going to die in this movie, that was my number 1 belief, as if they lived wouldn't they have been then relevant and mentioned in ANH? I'm sure it's possible they could have been on "other tasks" but I doubt it, it just would of felt weak to me, so I went in thinking they were all gonna die. I somewhat agree with what most I think have said here: The first to middle acts are somewhat all over the place to me. I mean I liked the very beginning with her as a child and with her parents, but then after that they shift focus character to character and it got a bit confusing as you didn't really know who they were and they didn't really flesh them out much. I also feel like Jyn and Cassian's chemistry felt a bit too forced to me, like they bonded pretty quickly to me with no reason why (I mean at the end of the movie they were grasping each other like they were lovers and knew one another for eons, when in reality they've only known each other for like what....a day or two?). 

 

Once we get the scene of Jyn and her dad Galen at the bridge and his last words, from there on out is when I felt the movie finally got it's wings under them and I actually felt a bit invested with the story. The final battle encounter was indeed fantastically well done, from the beach scenes to the air pilot fights. The did a good job at building tension of getting the death star plans, even when you knew they obviously couldn't fail ala ANH's beginning. The death scenes of the main characters I thought were pretty good, for characters I didn't really care for much (again, problems from the early part of the film) I did feel a sense of sadness for them but nothing more. I give the film props for doing a very nice job of tying it right along with ANH, legit it literally ends right when ANH will more than likely start, which aka why my jaw dropped when I saw Carrie Fisher at the end. Speaking of old buddies, it was nice seeing C3PO again but I kind of felt like it was pointless as you only saw them for one scene and that was it.

 

Standouts:

-Of course Vader was good, unfortunately I would of liked a little bit more from him (I know the movie wasn't about him and they probably didn't want to over do it, but the few times he was in were so good, it literally made me want more of him).

-I have to give a shout out to the actor that played the character Chirrut, I really loved his fight scenes. 100% badass

-The new robot K was pretty good, had some good funny one liners at moments.

 

Overall, for a film that I wasn't really all that invested in (and this is coming from someone who grew up to SW's her whole life, watching the classic's non stop) I have to say I walked out feeling like it was a good film, not perfect but not bad. It definitely surpasses the prequels (I, II, III...though that's not hard to do), however I wouldn't put it above FA nor the original 3 (IV, V, VI). I'd give it a 6.5/10, a B grading overall. 

 

[K1stpierre]

If I still had to rank SW films, it would be:

 

ESB

ANH

FA

ROTJ

RO

ROTS

CW

TPM

[Daxtreme]

43 minutes ago, K1stpierre said:

But first, I just need to shout this out loud and get an anwser asap as my mind still can't comprehend this: HOW THE HELL IS LEIA IN THIS (CARRIE FISHER HERSELF)??? I mean was it CGI??? Was it actually not her and a really spectacular fake person looking like her???? (Also how the hell does Tarkin look like the same age when ANH came out like 40 years ago??? Do the SW's producers have the fountain of youth available?)

 

It was another actress, named Ingvild Deila, who played Leia.

 

Then they CGI'd Carrie Fisher's young face over it.

 

Same for Tarkin, another actor played him and they CGI'd the late Peter Cushing's face over him.

 

I thought they did a pretty good job, all things considered. Really enjoyed Tarkin's arc on my 2nd viewing.

[xanamanax]

I really enjoyed this. It's a great story and I loved the crisp pace. The FX were awesome. I thought the acting was pretty good. My only quibble would be we get to know so little about Yen's, Jiang's, and Whitaker's characters that their deaths, which the film wanted me to care about, didn't have that much of an impact for me. My favorite character was K-2SO. 

 

A