The Marvels | November 10, 2023 | Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter

[thajdikt]

1 minute ago, Deep Wang said:

 

I get it, but also it's six episodes.  

To be fair six episodes is alot when you have 3-4 shows a year. 1-2 shows is what they should have done and even then that is pretty time consuming for the average audience member

[THUNDER BIRD]

4 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Not in India. 15M people watched it as per Ormax

Ormax is a fraud site.

[Willowra]

2 minutes ago, THUNDER BIRD said:

Ormax is a fraud site.

No, it is not a fraud site. It is India's only firm that tracks OTT viewership, equivalent to what Nielsen does in the US. It is actually better than Nielsen because it provides numbers of how many people watched a show, unlike Nielsen, which only gives total minutes watched.

[THUNDER BIRD]

4 minutes ago, Willowra said:

No, it is not a fraud site. It is India's only firm that tracks OTT viewership, equivalent to what Nielsen does in the US. It is actually better than Nielsen because it provides numbers of how many people watched a show, unlike Nielsen, which only gives total minutes watched.

It's a fraud site.

[dobrevv]

39 minutes ago, THUNDER BIRD said:

Ms Marvel is anyways a flop show

for plus dont think so,disney plus shows  dont really  chart on nielsen if its not mcu or star wars show

[Deep Wang]

8 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

To be fair six episodes is alot when you have 3-4 shows a year. 1-2 shows is what they should have done and even then that is pretty time consuming for the average audience member

 

I'm not disagreeing with the fact that they had too many shows, or if you want to talk about the timing of the releases, that's fine too.

 

But we are talking about one show leading into one movie here, and it really isn't a huge time sink. 

[BadOlCatSylvester]

I don't think I've ever seen a movie with such an uphill battle in recent years. It frankly has nothing going for it. The original Captain Marvel was massively inflated by being so close to Endgame's release, and ultimately left little to no impact on pop culture, with Carol generally being regarded as an unremarkable character. One of her costars had her character assassinated in the WandaVision finale, while the other one headlined a series barely anyone watched. And that's not even getting into the production troubles sourced to reliable people, the severe damage Phase 4 inflicted upon the Marvel brand, and the inevitable Fandom Menace tantrums. Making even half as much as the first movie will likely prove to be a tall order.

 

That being said, if tomorrow's trailer is mindblowingly amazing, they might at least salvage a big opening weekend out of it. Judging by how other troubled movies fared I don't see it having much staying power though. We'll see.

[Mickiland16]

27 minutes ago, dobrevv said:

for plus dont think so,disney plus shows  dont really  chart on nielsen if its not mcu or star wars show

How dare you to ignore the actual best show of the decade AKA Santa Clauses starring lord, savior and king Tim Allen?? #PapaNoelsweep.

 

 

[SpiderByte]

Lol this board is going to be even more insufferable if the standard is "if it's not the GREATEST TRAILER IN THE WORLD it's a failure!" Between that and the MSHEU crowd it's gonna be a non stop slog of bullshit about this movie from now till November. All this speculation about it being an inevitable massive bomb in the making, which people have been claiming for months, has been based on nothing.

Edited April 10, 2023 by SpiderByte

[Mickiland16]

12 minutes ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

I don't think I've ever seen a movie with such an uphill battle in recent years. It frankly has nothing going for it. The original Captain Marvel was massively inflated by being so close to Endgame's release, and ultimately left little to no impact on pop culture, with Carol generally being regarded as an unremarkable character. One of her costars had her character assassinated in the WandaVision finale, while the other one headlined a series barely anyone watched. And that's not even getting into the production troubles sourced to reliable people, the severe damage Phase 4 inflicted upon the Marvel brand, and the inevitable Fandom Menace tantrums. Making even half as much as the first movie will likely prove to be a tall order.

 

That being said, if tomorrow's trailer is mindblowingly amazing, they might at least salvage a big opening weekend out of it. Judging by how other troubled movies fared I don't see it having much staying power though. We'll see.

Weeks ago I'd say it could surprise people by making over $800M because the poster reveal pulled a pretty high buzz. But now, Guardians of the Galaxy 3 presales on the tracking thread are making me worry.

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

This thread right now:

[SpiderByte]

People expecting Dark Phoenix numbers because somehow, a 4 second shot of her logo apparently is worth 500+ million dollars of box office revenue, despite, again, the movie coming out immediately after Infinity War seeing no comparable boost, is insane. There is no fact-based evidence that this movie is somehow an inevitable bomb doomed to fail because...Guardians of the Galaxy's presales are slightly lower than expected so far?

[TwoMisfits]

5 minutes ago, SpiderByte said:

People expecting Dark Phoenix numbers because somehow, a 4 second shot of her logo apparently is worth 500+ million dollars of box office revenue, despite, again, the movie coming out immediately after Infinity War seeing no comparable boost, is insane. There is no fact-based evidence that this movie is somehow an inevitable bomb doomed to fail because...Guardians of the Galaxy's presales are slightly lower than expected so far?

 

Woah - who said $65M DOM on a $200M production budget (ala Dark Phoenix)?  I think you read too far into posts.  No one has said this is a Dark Phoenix bomb level.  This isn't going under $100M DOM, and probably not under $150M DOM no matter how bad it is.  There's too much MCU fanbase still around.  Let's keep things realistic.

Edited April 10, 2023 by TwoMisfits

[YM!]

1 hour ago, SpiderByte said:

People expecting Dark Phoenix numbers because somehow, a 4 second shot of her logo apparently is worth 500+ million dollars of box office revenue, despite, again, the movie coming out immediately after Infinity War seeing no comparable boost, is insane. There is no fact-based evidence that this movie is somehow an inevitable bomb doomed to fail because...Guardians of the Galaxy's presales are slightly lower than expected so far?

Only BadOlCat seriously thought Dark Phoenix numbers and dude has replaced @CJohn as the lord of box office pessimism.  Also, like a 600-750m gross isn’t a bomb, with the likely 200m to 250m-ish budget. Make no mistake, it’s not a good result but not a world-ender. 
 

It’s not just Guardians that is cause of concern (also slightly dude please, it’s looking at 100-120m which is good but like we were expecting 150m that’s not slight, that’s pretty big difference especially with a loved franchise.) but rather mixed reception of Phase 4 and Quantumania which has eroded a lot of trust. The fanbase will give it a decent OW. I do think with Guardians 3 likely being well received and the shows having good reception will be enough to help Marvels if it has solid reception (BW-ish reception). That said, I agree that people are saying CM wasn’t liked because they didn’t like it (it got an A CinemaScore with great audience reception and had hype from being Marvel’s first female lead film, dudes can’t let go of Brie Larson). 

[Ipickthiswhiterose]

2 hours ago, BadOlCatSylvester said:

I don't think I've ever seen a movie with such an uphill battle in recent years.

 

I mean for a start there are all the movies whose studios bailed on them or were sold: Dark Phoenix, Strange World, Every DCEU Release from Shazam onwards outside of Flash, Nutcracker and the Four Realms, Artemis Fowl.

 

Then there are all the prestige releases with inflated budgets: Blade Runner 2049, Amsterdam, Babylon.

 

Then there are all the risk-takes on huge budgets that were objectively unjustified: Mortal Engines, Monster Trucks, Robin Hood, heck arguably even Dungeons and Dragons.

 

It's still a ruddy MCU film and even in the most horrific of all horrific outcomes it does a Grindlewald-esque 400m on a 200m budget which while terrible is still better than many of the above. So the hyperbole is a bit silly.

 

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It frankly has nothing going for it. The original Captain Marvel was massively inflated by being so close to Endgame's release, and ultimately left little to no impact on pop culture, with Carol generally being regarded as an unremarkable character.

 

This has some point in it. But the latter half is just unjustified: If obviously has an impact on pop culture because the character was in Endgame and has also been in Shang-Chi since then. And it is, simply, IN the MCU.

 

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One of her costars had her character assassinated in the WandaVision finale,

 

Except they didn't though. This is just your bad-faith subjective interpretation.

 

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while the other one headlined a series barely anyone watched. 

 

You've just had it literally pointed out to you that plenty of people watched it. You just want to keep ignoring that fact.

 

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 And that's not even getting into the production troubles sourced to reliable people, the severe damage Phase 4 inflicted upon the Marvel brand, and the inevitable Fandom Menace tantrums. Making even half as much as the first movie will likely prove to be a tall order.

 

 

Production troubles I'm not sure about. The current state of the brand is absolutely a fair point, though it's not as bad as some have tried to paint it: BP:WF made par and MOM made above par and those were both last year. Online tantrums was something the first one dealt with, and as much as they do victory laps when films they don't like 'lose' and films they like 'win' there is plenty of evidence now to indicate they have no impact whatsoever on actual bottom lines or behaviour, not least the first Captain Marvel itself. 

 

I'm still saying par for this is 750m-850m. The online tantrumeers would still do cartwheels at this and pretend that's a big flop, but given the momentum the first had in its release date that wouldn't be the case. That'd just be a solid number but with the current reduced interest in Asia, especially China, factored in.

[keysersoze123]

Weird to see Disney release a trailer for this at this point !!!  I would have thought they would directly release it with Guardians and then release it online on Monday or something. After all there is still more than 6 months to go for this. 

[Jonwo]

30 minutes ago, YM! said:

Only BadOlCat seriously thought Dark Phoenix numbers and dude has replaced @CJohn as the lord of box office pessimism.  Also, like a 600-750m gross isn’t a bomb, with the likely 200m to 250m-ish budget. Make no mistake, it’s not a good result but not a world-ender. 

BadOlCat's hyperbole is pretty tiresome at this point.

[Sckathian]

33 minutes ago, keysersoze123 said:

Weird to see Disney release a trailer for this at this point !!!  I would have thought they would directly release it with Guardians and then release it online on Monday or something. After all there is still more than 6 months to go for this. 

Probably want to release it as they are planning to run it with GotG, I think it’s pretty dumb personally looking at concerns with GotG’s numbers but the issue is you want to have the biggest social media impact you can which is reduced if people have seen the trailer when watching GotG.

 

So you kind of have to release it now if planning to run it with GotG.

 

[Saul Goodman]

4 hours ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

This thread right now:

 It's gonna be worse tomorrow.

[froztking]

6 hours ago, SpiderByte said:

I don't know why you think Strange wouldnt know about WandaVision, it was a very major event involving a powerful magical artifact and magic user. An entire town was mind controlled for what's implied to be several weeks

u think everyone who watching these movies r hardcore fans ? or did u think everyone who watched mom have watched wanda vision ? it was a creative mistake to do a screen play like that !

btw if he knew why didn't he do anything ? i know he should have appeared in the show but due to covid stuff he didn't but they should have explained what happened in the show in some way in the movie first ! cause for ppl who didn't watch wanda vision it's weird to see wand suddenly go crazy !