⊃∪∩⪽ Part II | March 1, 2024 | Reactions drop February 15, reviews February 21 | Zendaya for our next C-3P0

[Valonqar]

38 minutes ago, IchwanBigBrother said:

Oh dear. My gatekeeper impulses have been activated and I at last feel like marketing has gone too far. They really want as many butts in those seats as they can get. Couldn't they at least have used better voiceover? 

 

 

 

Lel, for what is worth, WB did a better job digesting the first movie than Marvel did with that "please watch Wandavision and Ms Marvel" trailer. It's fun and to the point. 

[Porthos]

Folks, as mentioned, literally NO FILM  has 100% approval. To give a personal example even after all these years, I still have a somewhat... complicated relationship with The Empire Strikes Back, and that is near universally considered one of the best films of all time.

 

In this instantaneous age of communication it's easier than ever to find folks who don't align with initial consensus.

 

Now is there a danger of this being like MI7 where the general auidence has already made up its mind about the property and no amount of raves will really move the needle?  PERHAPS!  But the MI7 comparison only goes so far as there is a rather significant difference between the seventh installment of a franchise and the second one.

 

(my observations about "recency bias" in the F4 thread also applies here as to why MI7 is even brought up as a point of caution/comparison in the first place)

 

[MysteryMovieMogul]

I'm not saying this film will do bad. It's going to do great, but seeing people claim it'll do as well as Oppenheimer when there's nothing suggesting Dune 2 will be an event is wild. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

[JustLurking]

In my dream world it would do Oppenheimer nums - in this one, I'll settle for 550-600+ and getting Messiah greenlit

[IchwanBigBrother]

1 hour ago, Valonqar said:

 

Lel, for what is worth, WB did a better job digesting the first movie than Marvel did with that "please watch Wandavision and Ms Marvel" trailer. It's fun and to the point. 

That's not even a compliment to me. I think the MCU is three quarters mediocre to trash or more, and that's not a recent bandwaggoning view. 

 

WB could have done that better. Or just encouraged people to see Part One. They can get it on Netflix until end of month, fer Paul's sake. 

Edited February 16 by IchwanBigBrother

[wildphantom]

We’re six months out from a Gladiator sequel.  The original deemed beloved and untouchable. It’s RT score - 79%. It was less than that years ago. 
 

So proves a point. Not every movie is going to near 100% approval. There might be more than a few of Gladiator’s calibre and better that have less than 80% on RT.  It isn’t the be all, end all yardstick that many hold it to. 
 

Stating the obvious I know. Thought the Gladiator observation seemed timely though.  Dune Part Two is going to be in great shape, even if some don’t like it. That’s par for the course, no matter what film you are. 

[stephanos13]

Did anyone post about this news or not? because I didn't find any discussion about it in here. 😀

 

anya taylor joy is confirmed to appear in dune part two! pic.twitter.com/gqVevlvXtS

— best of anya taylor-joy (@anyafolders) February 15, 2024

Anya Taylor-Joy will appear in Dune: Part Two in a surprise role which @Variety says is a, "major character from the franchise."

Denis Villeneuve’s new film arrives in theaters on March 1. pic.twitter.com/ro3X7Pav88

— Rotten Tomatoes (@RottenTomatoes) February 15, 2024

Edited February 16 by stephanos13

[PlatnumRoyce]

43 minutes ago, wildphantom said:

We’re six months out from a Gladiator sequel.  The original deemed beloved and untouchable. It’s RT score - 79%. It was less than that years ago. 
 

So proves a point. Not every movie is going to near 100% approval. There might be more than a few of Gladiator’s calibre and better that have less than 80% on RT.  It isn’t the be all, end all yardstick that many hold it to. 
 

Stating the obvious I know. Thought the Gladiator observation seemed timely though.  Dune Part Two is going to be in great shape, even if some don’t like it. That’s par for the course, no matter what film you are. 

I don't think ceterus paribus obviously holds. Gladiator and Braveheart both won best picture with a 67/68 metascore and a sub 80% RT score. That's clearly a reflection of changing definition of what "a ___ %" means on user review sites more than it reflects the raw difference. On an aggregate level critical inflation on RT is clear and obvious and is tied to a clean conceptual story (pre-2000 films have a tiny number of web outlets reviewing films while in 2024 the critic aggregator % is a metric to be gamed and includes explicitly fandom based critics as well as intuitional ones).

 

If Gladiator came out today I firmly believe it would get graded in the low 90s not the 70s.

[wildphantom]

9 minutes ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

I don't think ceterus paribus obviously holds. Gladiator and Braveheart both won best picture with a 67/68 metascore and a sub 80% RT score. That's clearly a reflection of changing definition of what "a ___ %" means on user review sites more than it reflects the raw difference. On an aggregate level critical inflation on RT is clear and obvious and is tied to a clean conceptual story (pre-2000 films have a tiny number of web outlets reviewing films while in 2024 the critic aggregator % is a metric to be gamed and includes explicitly fandom based critics as well as intuitional ones).

 

If Gladiator came out today I firmly believe it would get graded in the low 90s not the 70s.

probably true. There’s a significantly higher proportion of RT critics today that are bloggers/ have online sites etc than there were 20 years ago. Back then there was more film criticism that went into writing about films than the clickbait, fanboy politics at play these days. 
 

Some of those that get to file reviews that count towards RT beggars belief.  We won’t go down that rabbit hole!
 

Point taken though. Different times. 

Edited February 16 by wildphantom

[ChipDerby]

Remember 13 years ago when a film with a 45% RT score got nominated for Best Picture? Bohemian only had 60%, Vice 65%, Joker 69%, Les Miserables 70%

[Last Man Standing]

Apparently it's fast paced and ends in a bang, there are real chances of an A Cinemascore if this is true.

Edited February 16 by Last Man Standing

[dudalb]

8 hours ago, Warmaster506 said:

Which is exactly what Disney wants. They are pulling the same shit with Superman by releasing FF4 close to it. 

You think that WB does not do the same exact thing to Disney when they see the dhance.

And nowdays I do not call  a three week gap close.

And the whole DC bs Marvel nonsense is so 2016.

[von Kenni]

14 minutes ago, Last Man Standing said:

Apparently it's fast paced and ends in a bang, there are real chances of an A Cinemascore if this is true.

 

As much as it is about widening audience appeal which I'm sure it does to some extent at least, I think there's a good chance based on initial reactions that the amount of people that go see it twice, three times, four times, etc. in IMAX can explode compared to Part 1 and give it stellar legs. Whatever we have as the audience grading system that 5% from 90% to 95% will make a huge difference BO wise.

 

Is there a resource breaking down this type of effects to BO? I.e. effects of those who go see a movie multiple times to the overall BO especially for films that have stellar reviews and blockbuster results?

[dudalb]

3 hours ago, MysteryMovieMogul said:

I'm not saying this film will do bad. It's going to do great, but seeing people claim it'll do as well as Oppenheimer when there's nothing suggesting Dune 2 will be an event is wild. Maybe I'm wrong. I hope I'm wrong.

Dune 2 will make as much as Oppeheimer with little sweat. For one hting, it is a popular genre..Sci Fi Adventure epic...which Oppenheimer was not. And I loved Oppenheimer.

[Arlborn]

8 hours ago, Porthos said:

Folks, as mentioned, literally NO FILM  has 100% approval. To give a personal example even after all these years, I still have a somewhat... complicated relationship with The Empire Strikes Back, and that is near universally considered one of the best films of all time.

 

In this instantaneous age of communication it's easier than ever to find folks who don't align with initial consensus.

 

Now is there a danger of this being like MI7 where the general auidence has already made up its mind about the property and no amount of raves will really move the needle?  PERHAPS!  But the MI7 comparison only goes so far as there is a rather significant difference between the seventh installment of a franchise and the second one.

 

(my observations about "recency bias" in the F4 thread also applies here as to why MI7 is even brought up as a point of caution/comparison in the first place)

 

Yeah, and the bigger the movie the easier it is to find someone who dislikes it. Even the best movie in the world eventually found some critics to dislike it. Some people, like those named Justin and Eddie for example, just have an empty hole where their hearts should be I guess.

[HummingLemon496]

I'm thinking Winter Soldier numbers, like 90/250/700

 

or maybe Ant-Man 2 numbers like 75/205/625

Edited February 17 by HummingLemon496

[WorkingonaName]

6 hours ago, stephanos13 said:

Did anyone post about this news or not? because I didn't find any discussion about it in here. 😀

 

Didn't know she converted to Islam. 

[Porthos]

22 minutes ago, Arlborn said:

 Even the best movie in the world eventually found some critics to dislike it. Some people, like those named Justin and Eddie for example, just have an empty hole where their hearts should be I guess.

 

I have no idea what film you could possibly be referring to. 😜 

[Celedhring]

13 hours ago, Porthos said:

Folks, as mentioned, literally NO FILM  has 100% approval. To give a personal example even after all these years, I still have a somewhat... complicated relationship with The Empire Strikes Back, and that is near universally considered one of the best films of all time.

 

 

 

Okay, you've made me curious. What's your issue with it?

[Porthos]

34 minutes ago, Celedhring said:

 

Okay, you've made me curious. What's your issue with it?

 

Giving the Semi-Cliff Notes version: 

 

As a Snot Nosed Kid I hated the fact the very idea that Darth Vader could possibly be Luke's father.  Man, the arguments I had back in the day. Also hated that it stopped "right in the middle of the story".  Among many other things. 

 

I've long outgrown those issues, but they've forever... influenced my view of the film and it's one I can "technically appreciate" but never completely love.  Not on an emotional level at any rate.  Probably rate it about a 9 or so out of 10, depending on my mood.  But it's one of those uneven 9s with high highs and... irritating lows.

 

On a more recent rewatch, I found the... way they treated Leia for about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the film to be... distasteful.  Much of her spunk and take-charge attitude from the first film (and the third for that matter) is strangely absent until Han is sidelined and the only reason the Han/Leia romance works as well as it does (and before people start squawking it does indeed work very well) is the absolute insane chemistry between the two leads. 

 

In the hands of lesser actors/ones without nearly as much connection... Well, it could have been bad.  In fact I noted to myself how much of a fucking creep Han is in that film at times.

 

Now don't get me wrong, as I've grown older there's much I love to pieces. The Luke/Yoda/Obi-Wan interplay is the beating heart of the movie as far as I'm concerned.  I absolutely love the whole mysticism angle.  

 

But they did Leia dirty for about 1/2 to 2/3rds of that film and that's a view I still hold and I know gets me this:

 

 

and I don't care.  

 

They could have still had the Bad Boy Han and the Respectable Princess Fall In Love Angle without sacrificing her sass and leadership qualities as seen in ANH.  She's just... off in a way I do not like to this day and is hard to articulate without going on a 10 paragraph essay.  I once observed that at the end of the film it was like a light switch going off once Han was captured and Leia had something to do at the end of ESB.  The Leia that nearly ripped Lando's head off was the one I remembered from ANH.  The one who took the situation by both hands and would not let go.  The one who wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

 

When I looked back after that rewatch, what I think what really solidified it was her strangely passive attitude at the beginning of the film in Echo Base.  She was far too reactive and no longer a proactive character.  And this reactivity as opposed to being proactive lasts... Well, pretty much until Han is sidelined.  

 

...

 

Dammit.  This was supposed to be a Cliff Notes Version.

 

...

 

Would you believe it is?  

 

Anyway, that's some of it.  It's something I have a lot of thoughts on.  And I know they're unpopular ones.  But because they're unpopular and I've heard the rebuttals for literally decades, I've had plenty of time and opportunity to flesh out my thoughts on the matter.