⊃∪∩⪽ Part II | March 1, 2024 | Reactions drop February 15, reviews February 21 | Zendaya for our next C-3P0

[Valonqar]

No film has 100% approval. Erlich has already signalled he'll give it a negative review. so 100% is out of the window. 99% sure maybe but 100% no. 

[IchwanBigBrother]

4 hours ago, Porthos said:

Dammit.  This was supposed to be a Cliff Notes Version.

Even if I mostly disagree, mad respect. You articulate all this really well. As opposed to the Dune criticism we're likely to get which will amount to "actors grim faces weird names I'm confused needed even more action scenes not enough one liners durrrrrrrr". 

[emoviefan]

5 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

Giving the Semi-Cliff Notes version: 

 

As a Snot Nosed Kid I hated the fact the very idea that Darth Vader could possibly be Luke's father.  Man, the arguments I had back in the day. Also hated that it stopped "right in the middle of the story".  Among many other things. 

 

I've long outgrown those issues, but they've forever... influenced my view of the film and it's one I can "technically appreciate" but never completely love.  Not on an emotional level at any rate.  Probably rate it about a 9 or so out of 10, depending on my mood.  But it's one of those uneven 9s with high highs and... irritating lows.

 

On a more recent rewatch, I found the... way they treated Leia for about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the film to be... distasteful.  Much of her spunk and take-charge attitude from the first film (and the third for that matter) is strangely absent until Han is sidelined and the only reason the Han/Leia romance works as well as it does (and before people start squawking it does indeed work very well) is the absolute insane chemistry between the two leads. 

 

In the hands of lesser actors/ones without nearly as much connection... Well, it could have been bad.  In fact I noted to myself how much of a fucking creep Han is in that film at times.

 

Now don't get me wrong, as I've grown older there's much I love to pieces. The Luke/Yoda/Obi-Wan interplay is the beating heart of the movie as far as I'm concerned.  I absolutely love the whole mysticism angle.  

 

But they did Leia dirty for about 1/2 to 2/3rds of that film and that's a view I still hold and I know gets me this:

 

 

and I don't care.  

 

They could have still had the Bad Boy Han and the Respectable Princess Fall In Love Angle without sacrificing her sass and leadership qualities as seen in ANH.  She's just... off in a way I do not like to this day and is hard to articulate without going on a 10 paragraph essay.  I once observed that at the end of the film it was like a light switch going off once Han was captured and Leia had something to do at the end of ESB.  The Leia that nearly ripped Lando's head off was the one I remembered from ANH.  The one who took the situation by both hands and would not let go.  The one who wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

 

When I looked back after that rewatch, what I think what really solidified it was her strangely passive attitude at the beginning of the film in Echo Base.  She was far too reactive and no longer a proactive character.  And this reactivity as opposed to being proactive lasts... Well, pretty much until Han is sidelined.  

 

...

 

Dammit.  This was supposed to be a Cliff Notes Version.

 

...

 

Would you believe it is?  

 

Anyway, that's some of it.  It's something I have a lot of thoughts on.  And I know they're unpopular ones.  But because they're unpopular and I've heard the rebuttals for literally decades, I've had plenty of time and opportunity to flesh out my thoughts on the matter.

Respect that and understand why you have that take on it. When I was kid it was my least favorite of the OT mostly for what happens to Han. He was my favorite hero and I was not happy with that. As a adult I love this movie and my #1 like a majority of the fanbase. I see what you are saying about Han in the movie though. I will still take Empire Han over Return Han any day of the week mostly of Ford's investment in the role. I watched the OT recently again and man it has never been so obvious how checked out Ford is in Jedi. He did not want to be there and it shows. Something Ford has been guilty of a lot in his later years as a actor where he just slept through paycheck roles. 

[von Kenni]

6 hours ago, Porthos said:

 

Giving the Semi-Cliff Notes version: 

 

As a Snot Nosed Kid I hated the fact the very idea that Darth Vader could possibly be Luke's father.  Man, the arguments I had back in the day. Also hated that it stopped "right in the middle of the story".  Among many other things. 

 

I've long outgrown those issues, but they've forever... influenced my view of the film and it's one I can "technically appreciate" but never completely love.  Not on an emotional level at any rate.  Probably rate it about a 9 or so out of 10, depending on my mood.  But it's one of those uneven 9s with high highs and... irritating lows.

 

On a more recent rewatch, I found the... way they treated Leia for about 2/3rds to 3/4ths of the film to be... distasteful.  Much of her spunk and take-charge attitude from the first film (and the third for that matter) is strangely absent until Han is sidelined and the only reason the Han/Leia romance works as well as it does (and before people start squawking it does indeed work very well) is the absolute insane chemistry between the two leads. 

 

In the hands of lesser actors/ones without nearly as much connection... Well, it could have been bad.  In fact I noted to myself how much of a fucking creep Han is in that film at times.

 

Now don't get me wrong, as I've grown older there's much I love to pieces. The Luke/Yoda/Obi-Wan interplay is the beating heart of the movie as far as I'm concerned.  I absolutely love the whole mysticism angle.  

 

But they did Leia dirty for about 1/2 to 2/3rds of that film and that's a view I still hold and I know gets me this:

 

 

and I don't care.  

 

They could have still had the Bad Boy Han and the Respectable Princess Fall In Love Angle without sacrificing her sass and leadership qualities as seen in ANH.  She's just... off in a way I do not like to this day and is hard to articulate without going on a 10 paragraph essay.  I once observed that at the end of the film it was like a light switch going off once Han was captured and Leia had something to do at the end of ESB.  The Leia that nearly ripped Lando's head off was the one I remembered from ANH.  The one who took the situation by both hands and would not let go.  The one who wouldn't take "no" for an answer.

 

When I looked back after that rewatch, what I think what really solidified it was her strangely passive attitude at the beginning of the film in Echo Base.  She was far too reactive and no longer a proactive character.  And this reactivity as opposed to being proactive lasts... Well, pretty much until Han is sidelined.  

 

...

 

Dammit.  This was supposed to be a Cliff Notes Version.

 

...

 

Would you believe it is?  

 

Anyway, that's some of it.  It's something I have a lot of thoughts on.  And I know they're unpopular ones.  But because they're unpopular and I've heard the rebuttals for literally decades, I've had plenty of time and opportunity to flesh out my thoughts on the matter.

Thanks for sharing this thoughtful analysis. I hope that we have more of this kind of breakdowns here in the forum from others too. I'm those whose favorite SW movies is ESB but I'll be looking for this aspect of it next time when I watch it.

[emoviefan]

Now to get this thread back on track before we get warnings😄Two more weeks to Dune Part 2!

[iEnri]

Is anyone on BOT tracking international numbers for Part 2? Havent seen much for it yet

Edited February 17 by iEnri

[von Kenni]

42 minutes ago, iEnri said:

Is anyone on BOT tracking international numbers for Part 2? Havent seen much for it yet

On the international thread there was an estimate of $4m opening weekend in Mexico which is great considering Part 1 made just over $5m in total. With Part 1 multipliers the total for Part 2 would be $10m but we could expect more.

 

But yeah, haven't seen overall OS breakdowns yet. If real work won't bother me too much, I'll make some summaries next weekend.

[ando]

Usually after a couple weeks YouTube trailers just completely stagnate, but Trailer 3 has picked up a bit, doing like 150-200k daily. 

[von Kenni]

Here are estimates for Dune Part 1 and Part 2 production budgets (low, middle, high estimates) by researching public sources with some source links and references. We could pinpoint some numbers better and I welcome anyone to share sources for them. Knowing about the Hungarian production costs and overall budgeting for Part 1 is a huge help in estimating Part 2 costs. Any key insights on which parts of the production and even above-the-line costs can be attributed to Hungary will help to refine these numbers even more. Also shooting day numbers per location and what type of shots will help. VFX costs are a big question mark since they did a lot of practical effects, sets, and props together with VFX. There could be some shifts from that overall budget to the Hungarian Production budget but it wouldn't change the overall actuals.

 

That said, the actual numbers aren't much off.

 

	Part 1	Low Ball	Middle Ground	High Ball
Above the line	$24,000,000	$21,000,000	$28,000,000	$37,000,000
Story Rights [1]	$2,000,000	$1,000,000	$2,000,000	$3,000,000
Script & Screenplay [2]	$1,500,000	$1,000,000	$2,000,000	$3,000,000
Producers [3]	$5,000,000	$4,000,000	$5,000,000	$8,000,000
Director [4]	$1,500,000	$1,000,000	$2,000,000	$3,000,000
Main Cast [5]	$10,000,000	$12,000,000	$14,000,000	$15,000,000
Other [6]	$4,000,000	$2,000,000	$3,000,000	$5,000,000
Below the line	$141,000,000	$146,000,000	$165,000,000	$184,000,000
Hungarian Production Costs [7]	$60,000,000	$60,000,000	$65,000,000	$70,000,000
Hungarian VFX Costs [8]	$20,000,000	$40,000,000	$35,000,000	$30,000,000
Hungary Indirect VFX Costs [9]	$20,000,000	$25,000,000	$25,000,000	$25,000,000
Additional VFX [10]	$16,000,000	$0	$10,000,000	$20,000,000
Score [11]	$2,000,000	$2,000,000	$3,000,000	$4,000,000
Jordan/UAE Filming [12]	$15,000,000	$15,000,000	$20,000,000	$25,000,000
Other [13]	$8,000,000	$4,000,000	$7,000,000	$10,000,000
Total	$165,000,000	$167,000,000	$193,000,000	$221,000,000
Hungarian Rebate 30% [14]	$30,000,000	$37,500,000	$37,500,000	$37,500,000
Jordan/UAE Rebate ~20% [15]	$3,000,000	$3,000,000	$4,000,000	$5,000,000
Actuals	$132,000,000	$126,500,000	$151,500,000	$178,500,000
Total VFX Costs [16]	$56,000,000	$65,000,000	$70,000,000	$75,000,000
VFX Shots [17]	1,700	2000	2100	2300
Price per Shot [18]	$32,941	$32,500	$33,333	$32,609

 

 

Some of the budgeting fundamentals and information about the Hungary production can be found in previous posts on this forum:

 

Original post 1/2

Original post 2/2

 

Some resources and references are here to help you but you can find more by googling.

 

Some initial references here, here, and here

 

[1] 

2-3% of the production budget with a cap

LOTR original filming rights

Rights after successful adaptations

Crazy numbers

 

It can have an unknown royalty factor, i.e. X% out of BO.

 

[2]

2-3% of the production budget for original scripts

 

This is an adaptation and Denis Villeneuve was the main screenwriter who takes very reasonable fees, especially for his life’s dream project.

 

[3]

2-5% of the production budget with a cap

Hypothetical blockbuster budget

Ent Law Firm View

 

[4]

One of many mediocre sources points to around $1.5m (before residues)

 

He will most likely take a bigger residue and smaller salary if it helps the film being made.

 

[5]

Modest salaries and most likely residue-heavy

Part 1 salaries. With Residues, you can likely double the final compensation.

 

Depending on the residue structure after Part 2 makes a lot of money in the box office you can double, triple, or multiply even more some of the cast compensation.

 

[6]

A whole bunch of other costs that I didn’t separate above

 

[7]

Original post on this 1/2

Original post on this 2/2

 

[8]

Origo studios VFX capabilities in Hungary

Origo studios website

VFX Supervisor Paul Lambert took his team to Budapest early in pre-production

Insights for making the VFX for Dune from Paul Lambert & co.

More insights

 

The core VFX team worked in Hungary and live-action VFX shooting happened mostly there.

 

[9]

These VFX costs are outside Hungary but are eligible for the rebate.

 

[10]

VFX costs outside Hungary that are not eligible for the rebate.

 

[11]

$1-2m per movie

 

Hans Zimmer has waited half a century to make the score for Dune. Most likely residue-heavy.

 

[12]

Part 1 shooting 11 days in Jordan

Paul // The shoot was a total of 115 days. We shot in Hungary, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Norway & California.

 

Expecting at least 50% more for Part 2 and day rates of shooting being $0.5-1m for Part 2 in Jordan/UAE..

 

[13] 

A whole bunch of other costs such as insurance, etc. that are not mentioned above

 

[14]

Hungarian rebate rules

Exact Hungarian production numbers for Part 1 and Part 2 and the 30% rebates

Some context and remark to 30% and 37.5% rebates

 

[15]

Special consideration will be given to high impact projects (Jordan)

Abu Dhabi incentives

 

[16]

The Creator had great VFX and the whole production budget was $80m!?

 

Overall hard to define a specific VFX budget since so many are actual sets and props built as a base for VFX.

 

[17]

DNEG did 1,200 out of the 1,700 VFX shots of Dune Part 1

VFX shot comparisons

 

[18]

Cost structure

 

Open questions

 

How many of the creatives, production people, and cast moved to Hungary for the production in a way that their salaries were paid in Hungary? I.e. their costs are included in the Hungarian production budget.

[WittyUsername]

Just now, ando said:

Usually after a couple weeks YouTube trailers just completely stagnate, but Trailer 3 has picked up a bit, doing like 150-200k daily. 

Trailers views typically pick up steam in the final weeks leading up to the film’s release, especially if there’s a lot of hype behind it. 

[IchwanBigBrother]

There is some talk on the presales thread that ticket buying pace in some regions has been nicely steady, and speculation it could clear $90 million OW if this continues. I am truly impressed if I trust what's being said. 

 

Also, a post echoed my own sentiment that great reviews, while you always want them, will have a marginal at best effect. I think those who can be convinced to see the film at this point are almost all spoken for. The years of exposure to Part One, the online marketing, and word of mouth are doing their part. Still in these last weeks, if WB leaves nothing on the table I can't even imagine how much louder the marketing will get. If this weren't one of my favorite stories even I'd be sick of it. 

[ando]

Even with all this momentum, I will still be very pleased with $70-75M debut. 

 

Dune: Part One has jumped back into the top 10 on YouTube movies bestsellers. 

Edited February 18 by ando

[eddyxx]

Inject this movie into my veins.

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:58 AM, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

If this makes above $100M OW I will take everyone on this thread out to Chili’s for dinner.

[von Kenni]

18 minutes ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

[keysersoze123]

6 hours ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

[Celedhring]

On 2/17/2024 at 11:51 AM, Porthos said:

 

Dammit.  This was supposed to be a Cliff Notes Version.

 

..

 

Thanks a lot for ellaborating in such detail.

 

As a kid, Empire was actually my least favorite film of the OT. Always disliked how it ended the way it did compared to ANH or ROJ (the protagonists just manage to escape... and that's it), and found the later third pretty boring. Battle of Hoth is such a banger of an action scene, and it's never topped for the remaineder of the movie. Now, as I aged up I appreciated the emotional beats in the rest of the movie much more and it is now my favorite Star Wars thing among all Star Wars things.

 

Personally I feel that Leia is portrayed quite well in her Hoth scenes. She leads the evacuation effort and is shown as being one of the last to leave, etc... Always felt she gives a very good impression of an heroic military commander, putting others before her, etc...

She's given not much during the subsequent escape though - on that I'll agree. But then again Ford and Fisher have such dizzying chemistry, "I love you/I know" is one of my favorite dialogue exhcanges in movie history.

 

Edited February 19 by Celedhring

[ando]

Lol Collider just posted an article saying the Dune re-release has grossed $30M in one week. Which is wrong, but they simply took the numbers from Box Office Mojo and ran with it. 

 

But on Box office Mojo, it wrongly shows the UK gross as $57M instead of $28M. Which explains that weird bump to $433M WW, which is wrong. 

 

Not great for Collider lol

[titanic2187]

Mexico City, Paris, London and Abu Dhabi. Dune 2 continues its tour around the globe and now they are in South korea. Next stop is New york, and Montreal. 

[Last Man Standing]

As someone who likes both Dune and watches, this goes hard.