Avatar :The Way of the Water OS thread

[Issac Newton]

1 minute ago, Dale Cooper said:

It has nothing to do with Japan having good taste in movies. It's pretty evident what kind of movies works in Japan these days, and has little to do with quality.

Absolutely wrong. Imported Film (especially Maverick &RRR) did work out. 

 

Terrible Film like Fantastic Beast &Jurassic World did better than then expected.

 

Just Avatar seems to out-dated with 3D no longer being popular as back in 2010s. 

 

Japan is more like selectively permeable market where unexpected does the best (like me predicting ¥3B for TGM but did ¥13.57B and still running) &expected one turn out to be worst. This is same for both local &Imported Works 

[Sophia Jane]

1 minute ago, Issac Newton said:

Absolutely wrong. Imported Film (especially Maverick &RRR) did work out. 

 

Terrible Film like Fantastic Beast &Jurassic World did better than then expected.

 

Just Avatar seems to out-dated with 3D no longer being popular as back in 2010s. 

 

Japan is more like selectively permeable market where unexpected does the best (like me predicting ¥3B for TGM but did ¥13.57B and still running) &expected one turn out to be worst. This is same for both local &Imported Works 

You think if Avatar doing another Terminator II level’s movie gonna doing great in Japan?

[Dale Cooper]

3 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:

Absolutely wrong. Imported Film (especially Maverick &RRR) did work out. 

 

Terrible Film like Fantastic Beast &Jurassic World did better than then expected.

So what you're saying is that we have two good movies that worked out, two bad movies that worked out and then a whole lot of other good and bad movies that didn't work out. Sounds to me that it doesn't have much to do with quality after all.

[despooked]

Cameron should not even release Avatar 3 in Japan after the stunt they pulled with the dolphins.

[Issac Newton]

3 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

So what you're saying is that we have two good movies that worked out, two bad movies that worked out and then a whole lot of other good and bad movies that didn't work out. Sounds to me that it doesn't have much to do with quality after all.

*Only Disney* Films are struggling to cross ¥1B (Commercial Success Line) before.. Eternals opened ¥1B club, MOM opened ¥2B &Avatar ¥3B &¥4B. Rest of the films are earning as usual. Whether it's Minions/Sing.

 

Among 2022 release, If you want to know what's worstly affected is Boss Baby &Light Year (huh.. that Matrix)

[LPLC]

1 hour ago, JustLurking said:

Even matching A1 in yen would've been only like ~100-110 range on this ER.

I know it was just humor

[LPLC]

1 hour ago, Issac Newton said:

That's ridiculous. You can't expect One Piece Red numbers. (Remember ER)

 

Numbers might look stunning poor in compare to Original but overall lot better than Post-CoVid-19 Disney release. Yikes 

I know it was just humor

[LPLC]

29 minutes ago, Dale Cooper said:

It has nothing to do with Japan having good taste in movies. It's pretty evident what kind of movies works in Japan these days, and has little to do with quality.

You are right, if that were the case it would mean that japan likes very good films and the rest of the world likes shit because the film works very well everywhere in the world except in japan but fortunately it is not the case

[Dale Cooper]

10 minutes ago, Issac Newton said:

*Only Disney* Films are struggling to cross ¥1B (Commercial Success Line) before.. Eternals opened ¥1B club, MOM opened ¥2B &Avatar ¥3B &¥4B. Rest of the films are earning as usual. Whether it's Minions/Sing.

 

Among 2022 release, If you want to know what's worstly affected is Boss Baby &Light Year (huh.. that Matrix)

Well, animated films usually do pretty well in Japan, no? My point is that it has little to do with quality. The ones that have been doing decent business in the last year haven't really on average been any better than the ones that underperformed.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Dale Cooper

[Issac Newton]

14 minutes ago, Sophia Jane said:

You think if Avatar doing another Terminator II level’s movie gonna doing great in Japan?

Anything above ¥5B is Blockbuster. 

 

Among Post-CoVid-19, only JWD &TGM crossed ¥5B.

 

For Commercial Success, you just need to crossed ¥1B. Anything below ¥1B is loss for Theatres for wide release.

 

Forum Users just going with Avatar (2009) comparisons... But, there are always a lot of explaination to it.. 

 

1. No 3D Interest as back in 2010s

2. Avatar didn't have any TV ratings records (Frozen had - that helps Frozen II)

3. Long delayed sequel increase loss of interest 

4. No Physical DVD/BD records (Frozen had - that helps Frozen II)

5. Avatar was 1st 3D Film so people went to watch to immensely explore 3D

6. If you compare Titanic &Avatar - you will understand how JC Power is ruling.

7. Avatar failure is nothing to do with Whaling

8. Yes, Avatar got widest release in the history of Japanese Cinemas. (You can't placed argument that it's running on less screens)

9. Avatar Failure has nothing to do with Politics.

10. Disney+ 

11. No newer technology as former attract audience

12. Poor performance of Disney because of their streaming disagreement (atleast 6 months gap between Theatrical and Streaming Release)

13. No star cast (like Tom Cruise - TGM)

[Shanks]

Avatar 2 -  1860 Yen

Dr. Strange - 1610 Yen

NWH - 1550 Yen

TGM - 1530 Yen

First Slam Dunk - 1450 Yen

One Piece: Red - 1360 Yen

Suzume - 1340 Yen

 

I do think Hollywood needs to lower their ATP in Japan, if they wanna compete with local Movies.

 

Some people will say Avatar 2 deserved that ATP and it's innovative and what not but really, having too high ATP also isn't good, if you can't convince Audience of that Country that it's something Novel. It's better to sell movies at 1200 ATP have 5M tickets sold than Sell a movie at 1500 ATP and not even half ticket sold.

 

JAPAN is one country where things have been almost stagnant in terms of rise in Individual Income - I don't see the need that HLW movies have to keep increasing their tix price every few months.

Edited February 5, 2023 by Shanks

[Sophia Jane]

1 hour ago, Issac Newton said:

Anything above ¥5B is Blockbuster. 

 

Among Post-CoVid-19, only JWD &TGM crossed ¥5B.

 

For Commercial Success, you just need to crossed ¥1B. Anything below ¥1B is loss for Theatres for wide release.

 

Forum Users just going with Avatar (2009) comparisons... But, there are always a lot of explaination to it.. 

 

1. No 3D Interest as back in 2010s

2. Avatar didn't have any TV ratings records (Frozen had - that helps Frozen II)

3. Long delayed sequel increase loss of interest 

4. No Physical DVD/BD records (Frozen had - that helps Frozen II)

5. Avatar was 1st 3D Film so people went to watch to immensely explore 3D

6. If you compare Titanic &Avatar - you will understand how JC Power is ruling.

7. Avatar failure is nothing to do with Whaling

8. Yes, Avatar got widest release in the history of Japanese Cinemas. (You can't placed argument that it's running on less screens)

9. Avatar Failure has nothing to do with Politics.

10. Disney+ 

11. No newer technology as former attract audience

12. Poor performance of Disney because of their streaming disagreement (atleast 6 months gap between Theatrical and Streaming Release)

13. No star cast (like Tom Cruise - TGM)

I think in some extent,Avatar is a ‘famous’ movie,but not a ‘popular’ movie,like Snow White,Indiana Jones and James Bond,they are really famous,but not popular nowadays.

People know what Avatar is ,but Avatar have real limited fans,so it doesn’t have Marvel power that have insane fan-rush and long-last fanbase 

JC said he gonna make Avatar become a franchise,let’s see if he can do it

Edited February 5, 2023 by Sophia Jane

[JustLurking]

3 minutes ago, Shanks said:

Avatar 2 -  1860 Yen

Dr. Strange - 1610 Yen

NWH - 1550 Yen

TGM - 1530 Yen

First Slam Dunk - 1450 Yen

One Piece: Red - 1360 Yen

Suzume - 1340 Yen

 

I do think Hollywood needs to lower their ATP in Japan, if they wanna compete with local Movies.

 

Some people will say Avatar 2 deserved that ATP and it's innovative and what not but really, having too high ATP also isn't good, if you can't convince Audience of that Country that it's something Novel. It's better to sell movies at 1200 ATP have 5M tickets sold than Sell a movie at 1500 ATP and not even half ticket sold.

 

JAPAN is one country where things have been almost stagnant in terms of rise in Individual Income - I don't see the need that HLW movies have to keep increasing their tix price every few months.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here honestly, hollywood films do not get enhanced ticket prices in japan. The difference in atp here is mostly just family appeal and premium screens presence (suzume's being so low because it almost immediately had to share with SD and then they went to ava2 instead).

 

Stuff like MCU films is playing to a niche audience so you're not get any families (kids and elderly have discounted tickets, teens as well iirc). Top gun exploded in premiums as well. Baseline price is 1900 yen, lower with discounts, higher on premiums.

 

Ava2 had higher atp due to 3D and basically selling only premium screens there. Films like gundam/evangelion/aniplex releases (except DS due to distribution being handled by toho instead) have premium ticket prices and they get higher atps than A2 even with no 3D whatsoever for example lol.

[Shanks]

34 minutes ago, JustLurking said:

I'm not sure what you're talking about here honestly, hollywood films do not get enhanced ticket prices in japan. The difference in atp here is mostly just family appeal and premium screens presence (suzume's being so low because it almost immediately had to share with SD and then they went to ava2 instead).

 

Stuff like MCU films is playing to a niche audience so you're not get any families (kids and elderly have discounted tickets, teens as well iirc). Top gun exploded in premiums as well. Baseline price is 1900 yen, lower with discounts, higher on premiums.

 

Ava2 had higher atp due to 3D and basically selling only premium screens there. Films like gundam/evangelion/aniplex releases (except DS due to distribution being handled by toho instead) have premium ticket prices and they get higher atps than A2 even with no 3D whatsoever for example lol.

 

Ok, MCU is niche. Avatar 2 is 3D. What about TGM?  What about FB? What about JW? Oh, Well Most HLW movies mostly are catered toward niche... but then, so are most Japanese movies - they are also catered towards fans...

 

Let's just See - 2023

 

TOP OW (With ATP):

Spoiler

¥1.296 billion ($9.6 million) / 846,687 [418] - The First Slam Dunk (Toei)  ATP -  1531
¥496.9 million ($3.8 million) / 371,072 [382] - The Legend & Butterfly (Toei)  ATP -  1336
¥477.0 million ($3.5 million) / 259,000 [1,466] - Avatar: The Way of Water (Disney)  ATP - 1841
¥320.0 million ($2.4 million) / 235,000 [347] - Dr. Coto's Clinic (Toho)  ATP - 1361
¥242.6 million ($1.8 million) / 178,000 [352] - Fragments of the Last Will (Toho) ATP - 1360
¥236.4 million ($1.8 million) / 176,690 [332] - Ichikei's Crow (Toho) ATP - 1340
¥197.1 million ($1.5 million) / 146,000 [336] - Phases of the Moon (Shochiku)  ATP - 1349
¥191.8 million ($1.5 million) / 136,000 [180] - Detective Conan: Ai Habara's Story - Jet-Black Mystery Train (Toho)  ATP - 1400
¥165.4 million ($1.2 million) / 128,000 [327] - Black Night Parade (Toho)   ATP - 1280
¥115.1 million ($0.9 million) / 77,000 [762] - Black Adam (Warner Bros.)   ATP - 1493
¥101.3 million ($0.8 million) / 80,000 [339] - Kamen Rider Geats Revice: Battle Royale    ATP - 1262

 

 

Let's take some TOP OW of 2022:

Japanese Top 4

Spoiler

¥2.254 billion ($16.7 million) / 1,579,552 [495] - One Piece Film Red (Toei) *2nd Biggest OW Ever*  ATP -1427
¥1.622 billion ($14.2 million) / 1,135,829 [418] - Jujutsu Kaisen 0 (Toho)  ATP - 1429
¥1.386 billion ($9.9 million) / 982,631 [420] - Suzume (Toho)  ATP - 1411
¥1.384 billion ($11.0 million) / 966,367 [498] - Detective Conan: The Bride of Halloween (Toho)  ATP -1432

 

HLW Top 4

Spoiler

¥939.0 million ($7.1 million) / 603,015 [976] - Jurassic World: Dominion (Toho-Towa)  ATP - 1557
¥905.0 million ($7.9 million) / 584,000 [896] - Spider-Man: No Way Home (Sony)  ATP - 1626
¥824.7 million ($6.5 million) / 524,843 [745] - Top Gun: Maverick (Towa Pictures)  ATP - 1572
¥785.6 million ($6.3 million) / 503,955 [895] - Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (Warner Bros.) ATP - 1560

 

Maybe you are right, HLW movies don't have added premium but they certainly do have high ATP for whatever reason. Maybe, Japan is a market where most movies that do good aren't simply catered towards Adults.

 

So, HLW needs to consider that in mind that they are competing against a market dominated by movies that are preferred by Kids/Elders and they should lower ticket prices anyway.

 

To be fair, Even Indian Movie RRR has 1600 ATP. 

Edited February 5, 2023 by Shanks

[JustLurking]

15 minutes ago, Shanks said:

 

Ok, MCU is niche. Avatar 2 is 3D. What about TGM?  What about FB? What about JW? Oh, Wait HLW movies mostly are catered toward niche... but so are most Japanese movies - they are also catered towards fans...

 

Let's just See - 2023

 

TOP OW:

 

¥1.296 billion ($9.6 million) / 846,687 [418] - The First Slam Dunk (Toei)  ATP -  1531
¥496.9 million ($3.8 million) / 371,072 [382] - The Legend & Butterfly (Toei)  ATP -  1336
¥477.0 million ($3.5 million) / 259,000 [1,466] - Avatar: The Way of Water (Disney)  ATP - 1841
¥320.0 million ($2.4 million) / 235,000 [347] - Dr. Coto's Clinic (Toho)  ATP - 1361
¥242.6 million ($1.8 million) / 178,000 [352] - Fragments of the Last Will (Toho) ATP - 1360
¥236.4 million ($1.8 million) / 176,690 [332] - Ichikei's Crow (Toho) ATP - 1340
¥197.1 million ($1.5 million) / 146,000 [336] - Phases of the Moon (Shochiku)  ATP - 1349
¥191.8 million ($1.5 million) / 136,000 [180] - Detective Conan: Ai Habara's Story - Jet-Black Mystery Train (Toho)  ATP - 1400
¥165.4 million ($1.2 million) / 128,000 [327] - Black Night Parade (Toho)   ATP - 1280
¥115.1 million ($0.9 million) / 77,000 [762] - Black Adam (Warner Bros.)   ATP - 1493
¥101.3 million ($0.8 million) / 80,000 [339] - Kamen Rider Geats Revice: Battle Royale    ATP - 1262

 

 

Let's take some TOP OW of 2022:

 

Japanese Top 4

¥2.254 billion ($16.7 million) / 1,579,552 [495] - One Piece Film Red (Toei) *2nd Biggest OW Ever*  ATP -1427
¥1.622 billion ($14.2 million) / 1,135,829 [418] - Jujutsu Kaisen 0 (Toho)  ATP - 1429
¥1.386 billion ($9.9 million) / 982,631 [420] - Suzume (Toho)  ATP - 1411
¥1.384 billion ($11.0 million) / 966,367 [498] - Detective Conan: The Bride of Halloween (Toho)  ATP -1432

 

HLW Top 4
¥939.0 million ($7.1 million) / 603,015 [976] - Jurassic World: Dominion (Toho-Towa)  ATP - 1557
¥905.0 million ($7.9 million) / 584,000 [896] - Spider-Man: No Way Home (Sony)  ATP - 1626
¥824.7 million ($6.5 million) / 524,843 [745] - Top Gun: Maverick (Towa Pictures)  ATP - 1572
¥785.6 million ($6.3 million) / 503,955 [895] - Fantastic Beasts: The Secrets of Dumbledore (Warner Bros.) ATP - 1560

 

 

Maybe you are right, HLW movies don't have premium but they do have high ATP for whatever reason. 

Maybe, Japan doesn't release Adult movies which can be Blockbuster. So, Consider that in mind and lower ticket prices.

You can literally just do a simple check by trying to purchase a ticket yourself man

 

All of these from TOHO Shinjuku (busiest location in Japan), regular screen, no 3D, no PLF, monday shows

 

A2 ticket options

 

Kimetsu no Yaiba world tour ticket options

 

 

Suzume ticket options

 

There is literally no option where Ava2 is more expensive than either of the two local films - because it isn't. Hollywood films just tend to play heavier towards PLFs and draw out less families and teens/elderly aka cheaper tickets compared to these local films, simple as that.

Edited February 5, 2023 by JustLurking

[Issac Newton]

 

 

 

[Issac Newton]

 

 

 

[Mr Roark]

$2.2B by next THU/FRI.

[druv10]

On 1/30/2023 at 1:10 AM, kayumanggi said:

for record-keeping purposes (overseas weekends)

 

$300.5M / weekend 1

$176.6M / weekend 2

$185.5M / weekend 3

$136.7M / weekend 4

$093.2M / weekend 5

$058.6M / weekend 6

$042.4M / weekend 7

Another fantastic hold $27.9M (-34%)

[Sophia Jane]

Beating Titanic by Thursday I thought…