Sound of Freedom || Discussion of The Movie And Its Producers Should be HERE and HERE ONLY || The Report Button Is Your Friend || Keep It Civil

[titanic2187]

3 minutes ago, The Panda said:

the suspicion comes from the fact that:

1. Right wing pacs and politicians have a history of astroturfing in attempts to inflate numbers on NYT’s best seller lists. 
 

2. Film creators state the astroturfing as a goal in their message at the end of the movie by encouraging audience members to buy up pay it forward tickets. If it doesn’t end up inflating ticket sales down the line, it’s at best a grift taking advantage of a manipulated audience.

 

3. CM is a terrible comparison to make if you’re trying to do a “What aboutism”. SoF is a political film with ideological aims from the filmmakers made by a new movie studio that has a goal of producing ideological content which pierces into the mainstream. CM is a Disney superhero movie that’s biggest “political statement” was to have a woman in the leading role.

 

It’s obtuse to act like people’s suspicions of astroturfing are fringe thinking.

It is also very obtuse to ignore the fact that their ideology has market. My point is that if right wing can garner 47% vote during presidential election, how is orchestrating a $100m hit a big challenge? They have their market and they just learn how to mobilize their support and outreach their potential consumer in this industry. SoF become a hit is merely manifestation of right-wing presence in USA, like the ruling of banning the racial-based admission to university, and anti-abortion.  

      

[The Panda]

14 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

It is also very obtuse to ignore the fact that their ideology has market. My point is that if right wing can garner 47% vote during presidential election, how is orchestrating a $100m hit a big challenge? They have their market and they just learn how to mobilize their support and outreach their potential consumer in this industry. SoF become a hit is merely manifestation of right-wing presence in USA, like the ruling of banning the racial-based admission to university, and anti-abortion.  

      

It can be true that SoF both has an audience that is seeing the movie and that it’s numbers can be inflated through astroturfing as a push for higher coverage.

 

Criticizing astroturfing doesn’t mean im denying it has a real audience.

[titanic2187]

4 minutes ago, The Panda said:

It can be true that SoF both has an audience that is seeing the movie and that it’s numbers can be inflated through astroturfing as a push for higher coverage.

 

Criticizing astroturfing doesn’t mean im denying it has a real audience.

Neither I am denying the element of astroturfing and I am certain there is. SoF has some inflated gross but judging from the overall political environment in USA, probably the inflated portion is not as severe as some hoped. Attributing SoF success primarily to astroturfing is kind of a lazy assessment when you have so so many right-wing movement going on in the country in recent years and I am pretty sure you can name those moments.

 

And with SoF success, Angel studio has establish themselves as a conservative voice in the movie industry and who know in coming years, they probably don't need this Pay-it-forward platform anymore? They may capitalize the conservative crowd organically for BO success and the election result does prove that there is a market for them to tap on. It is the situation you clearly won't like but be little them probably will only make situation worse for you.  

[The Panda]

25 minutes ago, titanic2187 said:

Neither I am denying the element of astroturfing and I am certain there is. SoF has some inflated gross but judging from the overall political environment in USA, probably the inflated portion is not as severe as some hoped. Attributing SoF success primarily to astroturfing is kind of a lazy assessment when you have so so many right-wing movement going on in the country in recent years and I am pretty sure you can name those moments.

 

And with SoF success, Angel studio has establish themselves as a conservative voice in the movie industry and who know in coming years, they probably don't need this Pay-it-forward platform anymore? They may capitalize the conservative crowd organically for BO success and the election result does prove that there is a market for them to tap on. It is the situation you clearly won't like but be little them probably will only make situation worse for you.  

But even a smaller (yet significant) amount being attributed to astroturfing both hurts theaters at the margin and in tight BO competitions allows them to take credit and positive press for reaching number 1 at the BO for example.

[BoxOfficeFangrl]

9 hours ago, titanic2187 said:

You gonna need tons of evidence to convince me the right-wing buying ticket for SoF and no one show up at the theater have inflated SoF's BO by more than 15%-20%. The manipulation in that scale would garner widespread complaint from theaters , especially in a crowded-summer marketplace. The fact is we heard little criticism from theaters means the manipulation is still at the "reasonable" scale. 

 

This is like right-wing media claim that Disney bought tickets for Captain Marvel back in 2019 but in fact no one went. I never buy those shit for CM and will do the same for SoF.

 

 

Maybe someone can make a YouTube video about it...

 

There's a subreddit of movie theater employees, Sound of Freedom seems like a very colorful experience for them.

 

 

 

 

[Boxx93]

Its gonna be interesting to follow the BO of Angel Studios next two projects: The Shift and Mother Cabrini.

[misterpepp]

1 hour ago, BoxOfficeFangrl said:

There's a subreddit of movie theater employees, Sound of Freedom seems like a very colorful experience for them.

 

Pal of mine went to the movies today, and there were Proud Boys, literal Nazis, standing outside the auditorium for this movie and passing out pamphlets.

 

Everything I've heard from employees seems to be that this movie has brought out the very worst customers imaginable, from mere inconveniences like people being unable to pull up their ticket reservations, to individuals being outright rude, then all the way down to those who are hurling conspiracy theories at the staff.

 

Angel can say all they want about how their movie is apolitical, but it sure would be nice if they would shoot down more of this nonsense than just the "AMC is purposely breaking their A/Cs" crap. It says something when that was what they were more concerned about than QAnon and white supremacist groups backing the film, but I guess they're only concerned about pushing back against conspiracies that affect their bottom line. 😟

[Krissykins]

45 minutes ago, datpepper said:

 

Pal of mine went to the movies today, and there were Proud Boys, literal Nazis, standing outside the auditorium for this movie and passing out pamphlets.

 

Everything I've heard from employees seems to be that this movie has brought out the very worst customers imaginable, from mere inconveniences like people being unable to pull up their ticket reservations, to individuals being outright rude, then all the way down to those who are hurling conspiracy theories at the staff.

 

Angel can say all they want about how their movie is apolitical, but it sure would be nice if they would shoot down more of this nonsense than just the "AMC is purposely breaking their A/Cs" crap. It says something when that was what they were more concerned about than QAnon and white supremacist groups backing the film, but I guess they're only concerned about pushing back against conspiracies that affect their bottom line. 😟

Yeh the actual film seems to be last on their list of reasons for seeing it unfortunately. 

[MrHardapple]

I wonder if Angel Studio is trying to get the rights for Passion II right now after this great success.

Would fit ferfectly into their portfolio.

[TwoMisfits]

5 minutes ago, MrHardapple said:

I wonder if Angel Studio is trying to get the rights for Passion II right now after this great success.

Would fit ferfectly into their portfolio.

 

I doubt it b/c right now, it would be too expensive for them...they couldn't crowdsource that much money for the purchase...they'd need a good year or two of hit after hit after hit to be able to even think of the buy...

[redfirebird2008]

Hell of a box office run so far for this movie. Will be interesting to see where it finishes. 

[von Kenni]

19 hours ago, The Panda said:

My thoughts I sent Cap last week. Sharing them here:

 

”It’s a push to make mainstream-like media content that gateways people to dangerous conspiratorial thinking.

 

Where the BO gross is coming from is also inflated by the core base buying a bunch of unused tickets in order to get “#1 at the BO, toppling Indiana Jones!” As headlines to drive more mainstream interest

It’s using the summer tentpole / action movie as a push for a louder cultural footprint.”

 

Some broad thoughts I’d like to add onto that:

- This movie fits alongside an evangelical trend to push out more “mainstream appearing” content in order to gain a larger cultural microphone. It’s in line with The Chosen, the Museum of the Bible (on the National Mall), and the “He Gets Us” advertising campaigns. None of these things are as blatantly ideological as some past evangelical content like “Unplanned” or “God’s Not Dead” or “The Creation Museum”, but they’re funded by the same people. That’s important. This material is meant to ease audiences, who wouldn’t be receptive to the more ideological extreme positions of past content, into potentially accepting a more toned down version with a much higher production value than some past pop cultural pushes.

 

- Is the movie itself extreme in ideology? Probably not, from what I know (I refuse to support it financially so will only see it if it’s available for free). But the director is, and the director opens the door by breaking the third wall at the end of the credits. He uses the movie as pathos to make the audience sympathetic to what he has to say, and then encourages them to listen to him outside of the theater (which will be more ideologically extreme and conspiratorial) and/or support his movie’s Astroturfing campaign

 

- This type of content is dangerous because it presents itself as moderate and high quality content. However, the makers and supporters behind it are often extremists looking to regain and reclaim a stronger cultural relevance for the evangelical ideology that they perceive as waning in power.

Buying up theaters worth of unused tickets to gain positive box office press gives power to and presents Angel Studios and their filmmakers as alternative mainstream content worth taking seriously. I personally find it worrisome that the astroturfing campaign is working and giving the extremist director a platform he wouldn’t otherwise have.

 

11 hours ago, titanic2187 said:

You gonna need tons of evidence to convince me the right-wing buying ticket for SoF and no one show up at the theater have inflated SoF's BO by more than 15%-20%. The manipulation in that scale would garner widespread complaint from theaters , especially in a crowded-summer marketplace. The fact is we heard little criticism from theaters means the manipulation is still at the "reasonable" scale. 

 

This is like right-wing media claim that Disney bought tickets for Captain Marvel back in 2019 but in fact no one went. I never buy those shit for CM and will do the same for SoF.

 

If people still "surprised" or "doubt' SoF, remember that 46%-47% of the country voted Trump in 2020. If they have that scale of support at a nationwide election, why make you think they can't organize this kind of support in cinema? 

 

 

3 hours ago, The Panda said:

the suspicion comes from the fact that:

1. Right wing pacs and politicians have a history of astroturfing in attempts to inflate numbers on NYT’s best seller lists. 
 

2. Film creators state the astroturfing as a goal in their message at the end of the movie by encouraging audience members to buy up pay it forward tickets. If it doesn’t end up inflating ticket sales down the line, it’s at best a grift taking advantage of a manipulated audience.

 

3. CM is a terrible comparison to make if you’re trying to do a “What aboutism”. SoF is a political film with ideological aims from the filmmakers made by a new movie studio that has a goal of producing ideological content which pierces into the mainstream. CM is a Disney superhero movie that’s biggest “political statement” was to have a woman in the leading role.

 

It’s obtuse to act like people’s suspicions of astroturfing are fringe thinking.

 

I see valid points both ways and thought to share my take with an overseas perspective, that has lived 5 years in the States but followed its politics for decades, studied its history, and was raised by its popular culture.

 

I think we agree on the importance of films and popular culture in creating a shared story, telling what is good and what is bad, and providing shared meaning, even language that ties us together as a community, and as fellow human beings.

 

At its worst, films and popular culture have been used for heinous purposes by extreme regimes on the left such as communist Mao's China and in the Soviet Union, or on the right such as Hitler's and Mussolini's fascist regimes. In liberal democratic countries films and popular culture have always been somewhat left/progressive wing leaning by definition (art is about pushing boundaries, questioning traditions and past, trying out new things) as well as mainstream media. Although Fox News spearheaded the birth of mainstream right-wing media in the US.

 

I understand the doubts about SoF from a broader perspective given the highly polarized environment in the US (hurray for a two-party system!) but I think we are also overreacting here, especially since SoF doesn't have any overtly political content (unless you count being against child trafficking now as a right-wing cause like freedom of speech is probably associated). Even the end credit's Jim Caviezel's speech looked like a tamed virtue signaling at worst compared to typical Hollywood counterparts. Only the mention of God made it different. If that's extreme or political, then I don't know what to say.

 

Looking at Angel Studio's offerings and future projects, I haven't seen any extreme stuff or any special politics there. We could argue that current Hollywood promotes more and more extreme identity politics in its movies where you must even have quotas for different races, ethnicities, and identities in all productions in order to even be nominated for Oscars. I understand that for many here it is the right thing to do, and anything else is borderline racism, sexism, or other form of oppression, but for a big part of the country it feels like misguided, righteous lecturing that is more counterproductive and divisive in its methods than uniting.

 

Right or wrong, there's a big portion of the US that feel this way about Hollywood. They don't have many alternatives and it's wrong to paint them as QAnon supporters or otherwise extreme. It's about half of the country. Sure there is a vocal extreme part in that as is on the left too but the majority no. It feels almost funny how now people more on the left feel afraid that there might be right-leaning studio alternatives that have been more or less missing before. How do you think the people more right have felt the past 50 to 100 years? Fear of the extreme drives polarization on both sides.

 

There's a hunger for non-Hollywood-produced alternatives. Studios like Angel Studios can now exist because of new technology platforms in funding, marketing, and distribution.

 

My worry is what happens if film and TV studios are divided to left and right in the future like news media in the US today but that's not a valid argument to be against anything that studios like Angel Studio produce. It is nothing like Fox News and even if it can change, it should have the benefit of the doubt in my mind. Popular culture echo chambers in films would increase societal fragmentation and polarization even more. Already the huge supply of new content and ideological/political divided news media have eroded our common threads to the point where we start to lose our common language, label words as left or right leaning, and lose the sense of shared culture.

 

As an example, I can find shared meaning when discussing with my Mexican friend that grew up on the other side of the world because we watched a lot of the same movies and TV series when we were kids and teenagers in the 80s and 90s. They were part of creating our sense of right and wrong, values, and culture generally. How much are we going to have that in the future?

 

Top Gun Maverick is an even better example. In these divisive and polarized times, I've shared moments of meaning and excitement about it with all kinds of people across the spectrum from left to right, maga, men, women, all ages, and different races, and ethnicities. When my Latino mother-in-law who doesn't speak or understand English came out from the theater with smiling and excited, it gave me hope. There's no reason why we can't create shared stories that unite us. Even at these times.

 

 

 

[MrHardapple]

14 minutes ago, von Kenni said:

 

 

 

I see valid points both ways and thought to share my take with an overseas perspective, that has lived 5 years in the States but followed its politics for decades, studied its history, and was raised by its popular culture.

 

I think we agree on the importance of films and popular culture in creating a shared story, telling what is good and what is bad, and providing shared meaning, even language that ties us together as a community, and as fellow human beings.

 

At its worst, films and popular culture have been used for heinous purposes by extreme regimes on the left such as communist Mao's China and in the Soviet Union, or on the right such as Hitler's and Mussolini's fascist regimes. In liberal democratic countries films and popular culture have always been somewhat left/progressive wing leaning by definition (art is about pushing boundaries, questioning traditions and past, trying out new things) as well as mainstream media. Although Fox News spearheaded the birth of mainstream right-wing media in the US.

 

I understand the doubts about SoF from a broader perspective given the highly polarized environment in the US (hurray for a two-party system!) but I think we are also overreacting here, especially since SoF doesn't have any overtly political content (unless you count being against child trafficking now as a right-wing cause like freedom of speech is probably associated). Even the end credit's Jim Caviezel's speech looked like a tamed virtue signaling at worst compared to typical Hollywood counterparts. Only the mention of God made it different. If that's extreme or political, then I don't know what to say.

 

Looking at Angel Studio's offerings and future projects, I haven't seen any extreme stuff or any special politics there. We could argue that current Hollywood promotes more and more extreme identity politics in its movies where you must even have quotas for different races, ethnicities, and identities in all productions in order to even be nominated for Oscars. I understand that for many here it is the right thing to do, and anything else is borderline racism, sexism, or other form of oppression, but for a big part of the country it feels like misguided, righteous lecturing that is more counterproductive and divisive in its methods than uniting.

 

Right or wrong, there's a big portion of the US that feel this way about Hollywood. They don't have many alternatives and it's wrong to paint them as QAnon supporters or otherwise extreme. It's about half of the country. Sure there is a vocal extreme part in that as is on the left too but the majority no. It feels almost funny how now people more on the left feel afraid that there might be right-leaning studio alternatives that have been more or less missing before. How do you think the people more right have felt the past 50 to 100 years? Fear of the extreme drives polarization on both sides.

 

There's a hunger for non-Hollywood-produced alternatives. Studios like Angel Studios can now exist because of new technology platforms in funding, marketing, and distribution.

 

My worry is what happens if film and TV studios are divided to left and right in the future like news media in the US today but that's not a valid argument to be against anything that studios like Angel Studio produce. It is nothing like Fox News and even if it can change, it should have the benefit of the doubt in my mind. Popular culture echo chambers in films would increase societal fragmentation and polarization even more. Already the huge supply of new content and ideological/political divided news media have eroded our common threads to the point where we start to lose our common language, label words as left or right leaning, and lose the sense of shared culture.

 

As an example, I can find shared meaning when discussing with my Mexican friend that grew up on the other side of the world because we watched a lot of the same movies and TV series when we were kids and teenagers in the 80s and 90s. They were part of creating our sense of right and wrong, values, and culture generally. How much are we going to have that in the future?

 

Top Gun Maverick is an even better example. In these divisive and polarized times, I've shared moments of meaning and excitement about it with all kinds of people across the spectrum from left to right, maga, men, women, all ages, and different races, and ethnicities. When my Latino mother-in-law who doesn't speak or understand English came out from the theater with smiling and excited, it gave me hope. There's no reason why we can't create shared stories that unite us. Even at these times.

 

 

 

Thank you, this is an excelent analysis of the current situation.

[PlatnumRoyce]

6 hours ago, The Panda said:

Film creators state the astroturfing

 

I mean, they're stated goal of 2M lifetime viewers of the film would have only ensured a small loss for the initial producer. People are only talking about "astroturfing" because this ended up being a much much bigger hit than anyone imagined. Otherwise this pay it forward stuff would be read as more analogous to discounted group ticket stuff. 

 

A lot of message oriented films people care about, including religious films, just don't make money. More than anything else this is a way to get to profitability by increasing money spent by people most bought in.

 

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[Ozymandias]

9 hours ago, redfirebird2008 said:

Hell of a box office run so far for this movie. Will be interesting to see where it finishes. 

 

probably higher than two very recent 300m+ budget flops lmao

[El Gato]

This film is so damn controversial that I don’t even want to discuss it for fear of being banned or reported. The box office Reddit is a sh!t show! So many deleted comments and locked threads/comments. Twitter as well! Why is everything so political!

[ChipDerby]

3 hours ago, Ozymandias said:

 

probably higher than two very recent 300m+ budget flops lmao

 

Just making up numbers

[crazydom]

7 hours ago, El Gato said:

This film is so damn controversial that I don’t even want to discuss it for fear of being banned or reported. The box office Reddit is a sh!t show! So many deleted comments and locked threads/comments. Twitter as well! Why is everything so political!

I wonder why the movie being promoted exclusively on right wing podcasts is political.

[MrHardapple]

Mira Sorvino said all that has to be said about the 'political' topic:

Sound of Freedom is NOT a political movie. It’s a beautiful, inspiring film w/an uplifting ending that should ignite a in every viewer’s to get involved to end #childsextrafficking of 2 million+ kids in our day.

 

Many people from the right and from the left who want to make it one, but it is not.

 

As for the box office, $100 million will be reached next friday I guess.

What a box office story this is!

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by MrHardapple

[Incarnadine]

Just from a boxoffice perspective this is one of the most interesting films in quite some time.

 

From the way it was made, marketed and released I was thinking it would have a big opening weekend then probably struggle to get a 2x multiplier as it burned through its niche audience . But not only is it not front loaded it appears to have caught on to more mainstream audiences. Hell, it's already past 3x its opening weekend and still going strong.

 

No matter if you like the movie or not this is the kind of run that makes following boxoffice interesting.