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CJohn

Toy Story 4 | June 20, 2019 | 6th most profitable movie of 2019. Disney does it again!

By CJohn, in Box Office Discussion

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Melvin Frohike Sleeper Hit

Melvin Frohike

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Copied almost verbatim from a post that I made under a different name on another website (in case anybody would think that I'm plagiarizing--feel free to ask him because he is me and would understand ;)):

 

Even putting aside the history of Toy Story, except for knowing what we know about the characters, the idea of a feature-length movie based on romance between toys sounds pretty unappealing. Perhaps they're trying to break new ground regarding what people would willingly watch and be able to enjoy, not unlike what Walt Disney did with Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs and feature-length animation, so it's bound to have some doubters and naysayers, but then again by now we have a better idea of what generally will work for us, individually, and what likely will not. The issue for me is not that this is different and not just that romance between toys is ultimately weird--at least beyond a short film where it might be cute, like it is in small doses in the existing Toy Story movies--but mainly that I don't find romantic comedies, as a genre, appealing in the first place. This combined with implementing it in the Toy Story franchise, of all places, makes the whole idea and project feel off-putting rather than innovative as I'm sure Pixar intended.

 

To be fair, "romantic comedy" has a more general definition than the archetype that I'm sure immediately springs to mind for many of us--it's a loaded term, but maybe it's not what Morris meant (poor choice of words for public consumption). It could mean any romance that has a happy ending and some of the basic trappings (e.g. meet cute, opposites attract, etc.), not necessarily the style as we generally think of it. In that case, Pixar has made at least a couple of romantic comedies, in addition to the many subplots scattered throughout their movies. One example would be WALL-E, which involves robots of all things. Using the basic definition, a lot of WDAS' animated features would be romantic comedies, notably Tangled among the recent ones. These are rom-coms that I think that even rom-com genre haters (like me) can enjoy--they don't even feel like they're rom-coms, really.

 

Nevertheless, I still feel put off by what Morris said. But then again we still don't know exactly what Pixar's approach will be, so I'll try to keep an open mind as new information comes in.

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Avatree Global Phenomenon

Avatree

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Even putting aside the history of Toy Story, except for knowing what we know about the characters, the idea of a feature-length movie based on romance between toys sounds pretty unappealing.

What? Why does a romantic relationship between toys sound unappealing, but a platonic relationship perfectly appealing?

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FrozenUnicorn Box Office Gold

FrozenUnicorn

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What? Why does a romantic relationship between toys sound unappealing, but a platonic relationship perfectly appealing?

Agreed. Admittedly I shipped Woody/Jessie after Toy Story 2, but after Toy Story 3 I became a Jessie/Buzz shipper. Even though that was only in one of the movies, it didn't feel forced or out of place, so it worked.

But it's one thing to have sprinklings of romance here and there and another to have it be the focus.

Plus, Toy Story 3 ended on a perfect note.

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Melvin Frohike Sleeper Hit

Melvin Frohike

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What? Why does a romantic relationship between toys sound unappealing, but a platonic relationship perfectly appealing?

 

It's not that a romance between toys, per se, is inherently unappealing, and actually I didn't say that--I said that a feature-length movie based primarily on this would be unappealing, at least for me.  Why?  I think it's because for me the Toy Story series has always pushed my willing suspension of disbelief to its limit, if not a tad beyond.  I'd readily "believe" in all kinds of outrageous things in movies, in this context, but in this case all of these things seemingly happening in secret in the real world with living toys is almost too much for me to accept in a feature-length movie format, as it is.  For one thing--among many--with all of the close calls this small group have experienced, one would think that toys being alive would have long been discovered by now.  Not every magical thing in stories needs to be explained--in fact, some are best left unexplained--but in this specific case, without an explanation it feels implausible even for fictional movies.  It's almost like a giant plot hole that pulls away my attention and involvement on occasion--it sure puts the "willing" in my suspension of disbelief, to be honest.

With the foregoing in mind, the idea of romance between toys in this case makes things even harder for me to accept because then I'd think of implications and ramifications like toy sex and reproduction. :lol:  Don't get me wrong, it doesn't have to be about those things at all, but I'd question the meaning and purpose behind romantic relationships with these toys, whereas with actual living beings--even when they're animated--I wouldn't even question it.  Maybe this will be the point in Toy Story 4, but we don't know at this stage, and for me at least, this is where it starts to get weird.  Maybe it will turn out to be weird in a good way, like in WALL-E, but I have no idea, and for the latter I have no issue with suspension of disbelief--with Earth getting into that state, definitely yes, but not with the lead robot characters and their relationship.  I suppose I could question there being a "romance" between sentient robots, too, but I don't because in this case it could just be about love, and they're robots (who are expressly imitating humans they saw on an old videotape, no less), while the toys of Toy Story both act much more human-like and at the same time have a strange existence that I question to begin with.  That's why it would be weird, at least for me.  Now, maybe if this were a novel or a different story about toys with a whole different setup, then that would be OK, but not with Toy Story as we know it and in a feature-length movie format; a short film would be fine, much like the little romantic comedy subplots that are already in these movies.

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FrozenUnicorn Box Office Gold

FrozenUnicorn

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Wall-E was a romantic comedy and that turned out fine.

Yeah, but that was a single movie.  A great movie, true, but the entire history we knew of these characters was centered around that.

 

Toy Story 4 is including established characters from three prior movies, throwing out some of the primary relationship building established, going through a tone change, and being a tacked-on afterthought to a perfectly-ended trilogy.

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Chriss Indie Sensation

Chriss

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Yeah, but that was a single movie.  A great movie, true, but the entire history we knew of these characters was centered around that.

 

Toy Story 4 is including established characters from three prior movies, throwing out some of the primary relationship building established, going through a tone change, and being a tacked-on afterthought to a perfectly-ended trilogy.

I'm not saying this will be as great as Wall-E. I'm saying that making a romantic comedy is not per se a bad thing.

 

Toy Story 4 could still go in a lot of directions as we basically only know it's going to be a rom-com. To say this is just an afterthought to a perfect trilogy is beyond ridiculous. Toy Story 2 was made because A Bug's Life wasn't as succesful as hoped. Toy Story 3 was made because money. It's not like they wrote out the story of this trilogy before. Especially Toy Story 3. That movie, while it was good, was made of afterthoughts.

Who says TS4 won't become a prequel. Who says it will stray away from the first 3 movies as you are suggesting. Calm the beans, this movie will be fine.

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theultimatebiu Box Office Gold

theultimatebiu

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I think its a shame they couldn't just leave it alone. PIXAR built its brand and success doing ORIGINAL movies so I don't understand the whole need to stretch a property further than it needs to. Plus, this idea is just so fucking dumb. The romance plot in the Toy Story universe was never strong enough to fulfill a whole plot so it was always a minor subplot and worked perfectly well. It's a huge stretch to now feel the whole movie can live off what was already a very minor subplot.

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