The Disney Thread | Happy 90th to Donald Duck!

[dudalb]

22 minutes ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

One thing that bothers me about the Alonso situation is that she's getting the full blame for all the VFX issues. I know she was overlooking that department but acting like there isn't a whole system in that studio (and the industry really) causing that mistreatment of artists. I heard from VFX artists years ago that Feige has his own BS that caused headaches for them, and if you go on the subreddit you'll see some similar talk about that. I know Alonso is said to be awful and that's something I've heard too, but throwing her under the bus to make it seem like "everything is chill now guys" is irritating.

 

At the same time, using three actors on MCU movies to defend Alonso is...quite something (I think I can guess who at least one of those actors is too lol). 

Oh, she is not totally to blame, but one of the rules on upper managment it is happens in your department on your watch, you are the one who takes the blame. Management 101.

[YM!]

7 hours ago, froztking said:

having diversity wasn't the issue but diversity just for the sake of diversity created the issue ! u can clearly see the quality difference between loki, wandavision and ms marvel, she hulk ! 

And those three in my opinion are all better shows than Loki, although I am not really crazy about any of them as MCU shows (like around a 3-3.5/5) mostly have had the same problem: making most of them six hour movies or abandoning more interesting elements to make it more at place with the MCU. 

[AMC Theaters Enjoyer]

12 minutes ago, dudalb said:

Oh, she is not totally to blame, but one of the rules on upper managment it is happens in your department on your watch, you are the one who takes the blame. Management 101.

 

Absolutely. It just sucks to me that a lot of online folks take it at face value and think things are automatically gonna get better (partiuclarly on Twitter).

[thajdikt]

Variety updated the article:

 

"While the cause of Alonso’s termination is unclear, the sources said, the decision was made by a consortium including human resources, Disney’s legal department and multiple executives including Disney Entertainment co-chairman Alan Bergman (to whom all of Marvel Studios reports). Alonso’s longtime boss and Marvel chief creative officer Kevin Feige felt mired in an impossible situation and, ultimately, did not intervene, one source added. Alonso was blindsided, another insider added."

[excel1]

9 hours ago, Eric Wick said:

Okay.

 

On 3/20/2023 at 9:44 PM, Eric Wick said:

Not really. Capitalism is designed to fuck over the working man. And the studio heads are more than happy to kill the people who make their hit movies because then they get even more money faster. This is the norm sadly

 

Not at all. One of the better components of capitalism is that on average, lazy/dumb people/those without integrity are the ones who struggle - but we still have wonderful social safety nets to ensure they largely do not all entirely behind. The hardest-working, most impactful contributors are the ones who excel on average-  "the cream rises" because it pretty has to or the bottom line will show it. Very, very, VERY few people reach positions that make them rich - such as studio or division heads- without providing serious value to the company. Primary means of providing value to the company = revenue generating activities, which is the root of employment down the stream. As someone who has seen this from a top level in numerous industries, this is broad principle that 100% holds true. Within corporate strategy, adding top-line revenue first and foremost is goal #1 and understand that employees are giant piece of that puzzle. Very few executive teams view job cuts as means of providing value unless the companies existing revenue simply doesn't support those jobs + there is no meaningful way for the jobs to be cut to provide additional value beyond what they're already providing. In this case, no, it absolutely is not in the best financial interest of a studio to 'kill the people who make their hit movies' because without them....there are no more hit movies, which any Hollywood beancounter will not is a MUCH more expensive move than opting to move on from the people who make the movies in order to save a few bucks. And they NEED hit movies. So they NEED these people. 99% of the time, there are legitimate reasons for moving on these people. 

 

Don't let the occasional bad actor blind you from this 100% factually true, undeniable fact. Succumbing to the "corporations are evil as are the executive teams that run them" is simply not helpful or useful position for anyone to take, aside from the fact that it is largely wrong. Most companies are ran by people who understand they mainly succeed financially when they create positive value for their customers or clients, no matter what field they're in, and helping their employees is a primary means to that end. 

 

Capitalism, taken in the aggregate, how improved the quality of life for the vast majority of good actors within society at an incredibly fast rate, especially compared to pretty much any other system out there. "The working man" can increase their socioeconomic status at an extraordinarily fast rate within American capitalism if they simply accept the system and work to position themselves correctly within it. I know a number of exceptionally successful immigrants who truly came from nothing in India, Asia, and South America. A former colleague lived in the Societ Union during the mid 1980s through its collapse and had the most unreal stories. Capitalism is straight up incredible compared to what else is out there. Its unfathomable how anyone could ever want something else where creativity and innovation become so stifled. Sure, a little more discipline with military industrial complex would have been nice over the years 🤨🙃 but on the whole its, wonderful. 

 

Plus it gives us Hollywood. 😎

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by excel1

[Willowra]

11 hours ago, froztking said:

having diversity wasn't the issue but diversity just for the sake of diversity created the issue ! u can clearly see the quality difference between loki, wandavision and ms marvel, she hulk ! 

Lmao all these shows have 80% or more RT critics rating, actually quality has been down in white males movies- MoM, L&T & now AMWQ.

[eddyxx]

4 hours ago, AMC Theaters Enjoyer said:

One thing that bothers me about the Alonso situation is that she's getting the full blame for all the VFX issues. I know she was overlooking that department but acting like there isn't a whole system in that studio (and the industry really) causing that mistreatment of artists. I heard from VFX artists years ago that Feige has his own BS that caused headaches for them, and if you go on the subreddit you'll see some similar talk about that. I know Alonso is said to be awful and that's something I've heard too, but throwing her under the bus to make it seem like "everything is chill now guys" is irritating.

 

At the same time, using three actors on MCU movies to defend Alonso is...quite something (I think I can guess who at least one of those actors is too lol). 

 

[Valonqar]

The biggest blame should be for those very few PTB who enabled Alonso to terrorize her staff for almost 20 years. They knew. They just need a distraction from their own culpability now so she is cut loose which should have been done long time ago. Or better, she shouldn't have been promoted to that position cause there's no way that she wasn't toxic when she held the title below that one. She didn't get corrupted by excessive power overnight. They knew and they wanted such person in charge of VFX. 

[PlatnumRoyce]

8 hours ago, Willowra said:

Lmao all these shows have 80% or more RT critics rating, actually quality has been down in white males movies- MoM, L&T & now AMWQ.

Let's ignore the culture war stuff: about 20 years into RT's existence, we should all know the utter incomparability of looking at (pretty much literally worthless) RT tv scores and movie RT scores (which, whatever you say about them, genuinely capture a snapshot of critical sentiment for the project on release). RT tv show ratings just don't fundamentally work as a proxy for quality.  

For one thing you're literally not even grading the show, you're looking at "first 4 episode previews" of seasons treated as pre-release season reviews and for another TV show critic writing mostly takes form of weekly recaps + longform about something not season in review articles. 

To pick a random example (Marvel, since we're talking marvel): Agents of Shield seasons 3, 5 and 7 have 100% positive ratings [w/ season 4 at 96%], If they were graded as a movie, would even that show's biggest fan expect anything close to that grading? RT just doesn't work for tv. You could just as easily say "Unlike DC films, the CW's Flash has maintained a sky high level of quality throughout it's run as seen by "85-95% grades in seasons 5-7 on Rotten Tomatoes" Hopefully that triggers a Charlie Cale response. 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_flash

Edited March 23, 2023 by PlatnumRoyce

[excel1]

2 hours ago, Valonqar said:

The biggest blame should be for those very few PTB who enabled Alonso to terrorize her staff for almost 20 years. They knew. They just need a distraction from their own culpability now so she is cut loose which should have been done long time ago. Or better, she shouldn't have been promoted to that position cause there's no way that she wasn't toxic when she held the title below that one. She didn't get corrupted by excessive power overnight. They knew and they wanted such person in charge of VFX. 

 

maybe her staff needed it to perform at a high level and enrich themselves in the process? too many assumptions here

[Valonqar]

13 minutes ago, excel1 said:

 

maybe her staff needed it to perform at a high level and enrich themselves in the process? too many assumptions here

 

Now that's an assumption. 

[Ozymandias]

1 hour ago, PlatnumRoyce said:

Let's ignore the culture war stuff: about 20 years into RT's existence, we should all know the utter incomparability of looking at (pretty much literally worthless) RT tv scores and movie RT scores (which, whatever you say about them, genuinely capture a snapshot of critical sentiment for the project on release). RT tv show ratings just don't fundamentally work as a proxy for quality.  

For one thing you're literally not even grading the show, you're looking at "first 4 episode previews" of seasons treated as pre-release season reviews and for another TV show critic writing mostly takes form of weekly recaps + longform about something not season in review articles. 

To pick a random example (Marvel, since we're talking marvel): Agents of Shield seasons 3, 5 and 7 have 100% positive ratings [w/ season 4 at 96%], If they were graded as a movie, would even that show's biggest fan expect anything close to that grading? RT just doesn't work for tv. You could just as easily say "Unlike DC films, the CW's Flash has maintained a sky high level of quality throughout it's run as seen by "85-95% grades in seasons 5-7 on Rotten Tomatoes" Hopefully that triggers a Charlie Cale response. 

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/tv/the_flash

 

RT is generally fine for movies, but it is a heavily flawed system for TV shows.  You have to be truly terrible to get rotten as a TV show.  Even dog shit like Wheel of Time, Boba Fett, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Rings of Power are all fresh

[froztking]

18 hours ago, AJG said:

 

For god's sake. Parrot Analytics strike again.

 

It is 2023. We have a shockingly well detailed Streaming Tracking section right here on these forums. I feel like we shouldn't have to break down why "Demand Expressions" from Parrot Analytics is close to being absolute nonsense. They effectively treat Google searches and Facebook likes as if they equal viewership.

 

Edit: a damn near full page of discussion based on Parrot "Analytics"... it boggles the mind.

 

Until Nielsen drops their info, when it comes to ACTUAL numbers for this show THIS is all we have

 

 

 

 

thanks for sharing that ! i was searching that for weeks !

btw if Nielsen numbers are around 600-700m min then it's great with 38mins run time episode ! 

s2 premier had 1b+ watch mins with a 50m+ epi debut !

[froztking]

10 hours ago, Willowra said:

Lmao all these shows have 80% or more RT critics rating, actually quality has been down in white males movies- MoM, L&T & now AMWQ.

why on earth race is there ? i liked ms marvel cast and directors visual style ! but that show had a big villain issue which made the show looked like it's from cw ! i still don't understand the reason to make she hulk an 9epi show which dropped weekly ! and both of those shows and vfx issues compared to loki and wanda vision probably due to budget cuts and short post production which make it look like disney/marvel just did it forsake of doing it and didn't care much 

ps: i''m asian  and don't give a sh1t about culture war or any bull shits ! stope taking everything into race, gender bullshits 

[Willowra]

53 minutes ago, froztking said:

why on earth race is there ? i liked ms marvel cast and directors visual style ! but that show had a big villain issue which made the show looked like it's from cw ! i still don't understand the reason to make she hulk an 9epi show which dropped weekly ! and both of those shows and vfx issues compared to loki and wanda vision probably due to budget cuts and short post production which make it look like disney/marvel just did it forsake of doing it and didn't care much 

ps: i''m asian  and don't give a sh1t about culture war or any bull shits ! stope taking everything into race, gender bullshits 

Culture war can't be ignored because it is because of culture war that some people say Loki (a white male show) and WandaVision (leading into a white male movie) were good but Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk were bad, when both groups have received good critics scores. May be you don't belong to that group, but most other people who say that belong to that group.

Edited March 23, 2023 by Willowra

[PlatnumRoyce]

9 minutes ago, Willowra said:

Culture war can't be ignored because it is because of culture war that some people say Loki (a white male show) and WandaVision (leading into a white male movie) were good but Ms. Marvel and She-Hulk were bad, when both groups have received good critics scores. May be you don't belong to that group, but most other people who say that belong to that group.

I'm struggling to extract a good faith interpretation of this WandaVision claim. It's a female lead superhero pastische of sitcoms over time. It's very much not directly in the stereotypical comic book movie (aimed at 18 year old boys) lane and the show that was, FatWS, was not well received. If WandaVision had flopped or received online outrage it would be used as evidence of backlash. At the end of the day, superlative quality really wins out. WandaVision was pretty explicitly the "non-white male action-blockbuster" D+ tentpole of 2021 and everyone loved it. That doesn't negate any other arguments, but you can't dismiss it with a vague reference to Doctor Strange. 

If you go to Metacritic's tv critictop 10 tv shows of the year aggregations, you can easily see Wandavision treated as a top tier release of 2021. None of the other Disney releases get that treatment (though Loki comes closest). Outside of Loki, none of the others are close to hitting the "top 30" cutoff with most points coming from sites whose names/brands are pretty fandom forward.

"A [race gender] show" just is going to be a terrible analytical lens. e.g. Ms. Marvel has 2 separate variables here: "a high budget CW show" (teenage girls skew) and Muslim-American lead cast. These have nothing conceptually to do with each other. If there's a cultural bias argument, which one is controlling mass negatives and why? If you just listen skeptically to people online, it's clearly some genre/age-gender effect that feels out of place to them in established MCU brand. 

[Valonqar]

Jeff Sneider is hyping a bombshell show in less than an hour (3 pm ET) . Will cover Alonso exit among other things.

[thajdikt]

According to Sneider and take it with a grain of salt :

- Not let go because of speaking up against Chapek and LBQT stuff

 

- The big 3 at Marvel has clashed for awhile aka Feige, Alonso and D´Esposito.

 

- Chris Lee articles matches what he has heard

 

- Alonso liked internally at Marvel but not external with vendors like VFX houses

 

- Marvels targeted output has reduced from four movies and four shows a year to two shows and three movies a year.

 

Wasn´t really anything huge at least about the Marvel stuff

Edited March 23, 2023 by thajdikt

[Reddroast]

6 minutes ago, thajdikt said:

According to Sneider and take it with a grain of salt :

- Not let go because of speaking up against Chapek and LBQT stuff

 

- The big 3 at Marvel has clashed for awhile aka Feige, Alonso and D´Esposito.

 

- Chris Lee articles matches what he has heard

 

- Alonso liked internally at Marvel but not external with vendors like VFX houses

 

- Marvels targeted output has reduced from four movies and four shows a year to two shows and three movies a year.

 

Wasn´t really anything huge at least about the Marvel stuff

Stumbled on the livestream. He says Disney has told LFL only to work on star wars stuff. 

 

[dudalb]

Menwhile a still from Daredevil; Season 4 shows a sign in front of a church dated 2020. Which means this show will take place during The Blip..which is an interesitng twist.