Disney's A Wrinkle in Time | 9th March, 2018 | Frozen's Jennifer Lee writing, Ava DuVernay directing. 45% on RT

[somebody85]

On 3/9/2018 at 11:26 AM, moah said:

Just saw Double Toasted's review of this 

Haha something to watch. This is a big shrug for me but if they go in on it, that should be entertaining. I'd probably only watch Cinemasins, Honest Trailers on it. 

Have a feeling "worst move of the year" won't hold up long with Pacific Rim out next week.

[Sam]

I booked tickets for Saturday to watch this movie with a bunch of my little cousins (I have way too many of them).

 

Hope for an entertaining time at least.

[Porthos]

This is a very good article.

 

 

The article is VERY nuanced and well thought out.  Points out the whole circus like atmosphere surrounding the movie and even acknowledges that the article is part of the problem.

 

Hopefully it will be one of many similar postmortems in the coming weeks if the film plays out like many of us suspect it will.

[Zakiyyah6]

That is a good article. As hard as I have been on the film and everything surrounding the film I have always maintained that Ava should not be put in director jail after one mediocre or poor performing big budget film when white male directors get 15 chances to fail before their career is hurt. So yes, I'd like to see her get another 100 mil budget project in a couple of years and hopefully it works out better than Wrinkle looked to have worked out quality and box office wise. I haven't seen it so I can't truly comment on the quality other than saying that I think that it LOOKS bad. 

[BK007]

Why does Ava think she needs to be a Yes-woman to Disney to make a career?

 

Though I haven't seen either, Selma is probably a million times better than this overproduced Disney CGIfest.

 

 

[BK007]

16 hours ago, AN9815 said:

Rank Disney Original Bombs: 

1. John Carter (such a mess but enjoyable haha) 

2. Tomorrowland 

3. The Lone Ranger

4. Alice Through the Looking Glass 

 

Haven't watched WiT yet and I wouldn't consider TGD to be in this list. 

Disney wastes a hell of a lot of money "making" "original" films.

 

The stories just aren't good enough, and the VFX are often awful and used as compensation for the movie instead of being complimentary to it.

 

I don't want to hold it against Stanton or Bird or DuVernay but maybe the "freedom" or in whatever form it actually exists on these huge productions, is actually hampering them.

[DAJK]

I'd honestly put this on the level of Pan. God I really wished I could have enjoyed it even some, but it really doesn't hold up either. Didn't enjoy watching it and really couldn't look back on it fondly

[marveldcfox]

Joe Wright bounced back with The Darkest Hour. Now it will be her turn with an Oscar bait film.

 

I think some filmmakers work best with a low budget. Nothing wrong with not being a big time director.

[StevenG]

What she needs to do is get her Oscar bait cred back, and then do the Vixen movie that we all (ok, many of us) want to see. 

[Captain Craig]

12 hours ago, somebody85 said:

I've been saying for months that it will be another Tomorrowland but worse. But with that, I at least had enough faith in Brad Bird and the concept to check it out opening night and enjoyed it more than most.

I've not been impressed with the trailers so I'm not surprised by the current results. When Tomorrowland was in lead up I at least thought the trailers looked promising. So the box office results disappointed me a bit and I delayed seeing it till over a year later. I'll not defend Tomorrowland and say it was unjustly overlooked or some such thing but I did enjoy it, some nitpicks aside. 

 

AWiT may be that way for those who are defenders of the film to some degree. 

[AniNate]

12 hours ago, Zakiyyah6 said:

That is a good article. As hard as I have been on the film and everything surrounding the film I have always maintained that Ava should not be put in director jail after one mediocre or poor performing big budget film when white male directors get 15 chances to fail before their career is hurt. So yes, I'd like to see her get another 100 mil budget project in a couple of years and hopefully it works out better than Wrinkle looked to have worked out quality and box office wise. I haven't seen it so I can't truly comment on the quality other than saying that I think that it LOOKS bad. 

 

In a few years after she's found success again with a more modest project perhaps. But it's par for the course in the industry that you have to earn that trust back if you hope to get the chance again. Stanton and Bird maybe didn't get put in "director jail", whatever the vague sense of that label entails, but they did have to curtail their ambitions. Stanton was hoping to make the entire John Carter saga and Bird's long-gestating 1906 earthquake project was probably shot for good. 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2018 by tribefan695

[Dementeleus]

3 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

 

In a few years after she's found success again with a more modest project perhaps. But it's par for the course in the industry that you have to earn that trust back if you hope to get the chance again. Stanton and Bird maybe didn't get put in "director jail", whatever the vague sense of that label entails, but they did have to curtail their ambitions. Stanton was hoping to make the entire John Carter saga and Bird's long-gestating 1906 earthquake project was probably shot for good.

 

 

This is true but also skips past the issue that it's much easier for white dudes to get multiple mid-level chances. (Stanton and Bird are a bit different in that they got huge budgets to fail with, but also had significant successes beforehand). I'm thinking more of the Ruben Fleischers of the world. Or look at Peter Berg's career arc. He got four films that basically didn't make much money before he hit with HANCOCK. Even after that, the only other financial success is LONE SURVIVOR. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a career -- far from it -- but it'd be cool if everyone with some talent got the same opportunities.

[AniNate]

Just now, HerediTele said:

 

This is true but also skips past the issue that it's much easier for white dudes to get multiple mid-level chances. (Stanton and Bird are a bit different in that they got huge budgets to fail with, but also had significant successes beforehand). I'm thinking more of the Ruben Fleischers of the world. Or look at Peter Berg's career arc. He got four films that basically didn't make much money before he hit with HANCOCK. Even after that, the only other financial success is LONE SURVIVOR. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve a career -- far from it -- but it'd be cool if everyone with some talent got the same opportunities.

 

I just think if Ava is forced to "go small" her next time around, it shouldn't be taken as the glass ceiling keeping her down. She had a chance, she didn't deliver, now she has to prove herself worthy of that kind of investment again. That's how a business should work.

[Dementeleus]

1 minute ago, tribefan695 said:

 

I just think if Ava is forced to "go small" her next time around, it shouldn't be taken as the glass ceiling keeping her down. She had a chance, she didn't deliver, now she has to prove herself worthy of that kind of investment again. That's how a business should work.

 

If she makes a movie that delivers financially more or less what other directors delivered, and she isn't offered the opportunities they subsequently got, it's hard not to see it as a glass ceiling, especially since that's basically what's already been in place in Hollywood for generations. But it's too soon to really talk about this, because we don't know where WIT will end up in terms of financials.

[Barnack]

We could go by going by individual case about chance, but it is always good to look at the total number.

 

The percentage of director that get to do only one movie in their career when they are:

 

White male: 54.3%

Asian Male; 60%

black male: 62.5%

White female: 79.3%

Woman of color: 83.3%

 

https://annenberg.usc.edu/sites/default/files/2017/04/06/MDSCI_Inclusion _in_the_Directors_Chair.pdf

 

Only 20% of female director get to direct a second feature.

 

It could have mitigating factor explaining those number obviously, the average commercial success of the first movie can be in reality different, talent pool could be larger making it an average a better director for some category than others..... etc..

 

But in the financier mind, if the director do not look as the usual director they have in their mind, they remember it more, take more attention and if they considerer they were giving a chance too/taking a risk on, will blame that person more for the failure.

 

And as you see it is much more gender than ethnicity that is a barrier for director second chance in that industry.

 

Ava getting a second chance to a studio movie level (say above 35m budget) if WiT fail financially would be a nice step for the industry (that until recently woman took decade to follow a success like Patty Jenkins, Debra Granik) and that is not necessarily because studio do not want to hire them, there is some the market place to not accommodate their taste of want they want to do (at least in financier mind).

.

Edited March 13, 2018 by Barnack

[AniNate]

Just now, HerediTele said:

 

If she makes a movie that delivers financially more or less what other directors delivered, and she isn't offered the opportunities they subsequently got, it's hard not to see it as a glass ceiling, especially since that's basically what's already been in place in Hollywood for generations. But it's too soon to really talk about this, because we don't know where WIT will end up in terms of financials.

Frankly, the fact that she went straight to a 9-figure Disney budget after earning just $66 million on a $20 million one makes me think she has the potential to make up the "downtime" fairly quickly. 

[Dementeleus]

5 minutes ago, tribefan695 said:

Frankly, the fact that she went straight to a 9-figure Disney budget after earning just $66 million on a $20 million one makes me think she has the potential to make up the "downtime" fairly quickly. 

 

That's true -- and credit to her, for sure -- but it's also not as crazy as the arc of folks like Gareth Edwards and Jordan Vogt-Roberts. But I'm starting to digress so I'll shut up.

[dudalb]

9 hours ago, marveldcfox said:

Joe Wright bounced back with The Darkest Hour. Now it will be her turn with an Oscar bait film.

 

I think some filmmakers work best with a low budget. Nothing wrong with not being a big time director.

I think it is not so much a case of budget, but that DuVernay and a Fantasy film were not a good match. Her previous films were gritty and  based in history. If she gets another big budget, she should try to be David Lean, not Peter Jackson.

[AndyK]

2 hours ago, Barnack said:

We could go by going by individual case about chance, but it is always good to look at the total number.

 

The percentage of director that get to do only one movie in their career when they are:

 

White male: 54.3%

Asian Male; 60%

black male: 62.5%

White female: 79.3%

Woman of color: 83.3%

 

https://annenberg.usc.edu/sites/default/files/2017/04/06/MDSCI_Inclusion _in_the_Directors_Chair.pdf

 

Only 20% of female director get to direct a second feature.

 

It could have mitigating factor explaining those number obviously, the average commercial success of the first movie can be in reality different, talent pool could be larger making it an average a better director for some category than others..... etc..

 

But in the financier mind, if the director do not look as the usual director they have in their mind, they remember it more, take more attention and if they considerer they were giving a chance too/taking a risk on, will blame that person more for the failure.

 

And as you see it is much more gender than ethnicity that is a barrier for director second chance in that industry.

 

Ava getting a second chance to a studio movie level (say above 35m budget) if WiT fail financially would be a nice step for the industry (that until recently woman took decade to follow a success like Patty Jenkins, Debra Granik) and that is not necessarily because studio do not want to hire them, there is some the market place to not accommodate their taste of want they want to do (at least in financier mind).

.

and those that do get to support the others.

 

 

[dudalb]

I have to take a lot of these support tweets with a grain of salt.